pzzzzzcheeezzzz

[WilliamPitt]

Email I just got.

==



The facts are that regardless of his personal opinions, Presidential
candidate John Kerry has taken a public stand for the U.S. war against Iraq, and
making it an occupied puppet of the U.S. ruling class - yet he is being deified as
the anti-Bush who must not be criticized for his support of the war and
occupation - by Democrats, "liberals" and "progressives" who use any
rartionalization to protect Kerry, despite Kerry publicly going along with Bush's
war and
Bush's war crimes.
In the ultimate "group think" collective stupidty, they prefer pro-war
Kerry to anti-war Presidential candidate Ralph Nader, because they have agreed
among themselves that Nader cannot win, because they have agered among
themselves to support pro-war candidate Kerry, rather than anti-war candidate Nader.
This leads me to ask you to daily (I repeat, daily) preface your daily
news email to your subscribers with the statement:

U.S. Senator John Kerry voted for the U.S. war against Iraq, supports the
war and U.S. occupation of Iraq, is silent about the deaths and injuries to
civiulians in Iraq and Afghanistan caused by the U.S. military, such as U.S.
airplanes often knowingly bombing and killing civilians, and is accepting the
apparently illegal, and clearly immoral, order signed by current President George
Bush, ordering the CIA to set up secret jails outside the U.S. where
kidnapped prisoners are secretly held captive and tortured - as repoted in the May 24,
2004 Newsweek magazine news story "The Roots of Torture. "Kerry has supported
this war of agression and conquest, and the U.S. Government's war crimes.

Presidental candidate, Cleveland, Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucincich is a
two-faced, unprincipled, opportunistic, self-serving, manipulative, cynical,
deceiving hypocrite - as proven by the fact that he refuses to introduce
legislation in Congress to require the U.S. Government to announce publicly daily, how
many non-combatants (civilians) the U.S. Government and U.S. military kill
and wound in Iraq and in Afghanistan each day. Even if it did not pass, if it
was introduced in Congress, it would create tremendous national publicity and
pressure to reduce the killing and wounding of these civilians by the U.S.
Government and U.S. military.
Itr is irresponsible, dishonest and deceptive for public interest
journalists and web news sites to protect proi-war Kerry, and bogus progressive
Kucinich, by not publishing the above information. Much of the American public (as
proven by Rush Limbaugh listeners) is stupid,
and needs the facts spelled out clearly for them, and connecting the dots for
them, about this matter. I call upon TRUTHOUT to live up to its name, and
out Kerry and Kucinich now...before the July 26 Democratic convention...where
they will both pretend to be good people who care about people. They are both
bad, and only look good compared to Bush, who is even worse. Nader at least is
good and also honest.
If you are afraid to "out" Kerry and Kucinich on this (above) then your
truthout website is bogus. You have a double standard as your record proves,
namely - you criticize Bush on the war against Iraq and Afghanistan, but you
don't criticize Kerry for mainly goingly along with Bush's war, that Kerry voted
for. Kerry knew there was no proof of weapons of mass destruction. He just
went with ther majority, voting for the war, for his own political reasons.

[Jacobin]

1. I will admit to being twisted into a pretzel over Kerry's IWR vote and

subsequent support of the conquest.

Nader can't win, so its silly to talk about it.

Kerry is our only hope, as thin as that might be (at least in the conquest department).

The domestic Bush issues are so clear-cut that there is simply not even a chance that Kerry won't be WAY better on domestic issues.

But, the freeper mail has hit a soft spot. IraqNam is a fucking disaster in whichever way you approach it. "Losing Iraq" (which will happen whatever is tried) will be a noose around someone's neck in two years or five years or ten years. Just depends on how many body bags you would like to count

[homelandpunk]

6. Agreed. I wouldn't simply "pzzcheeez" this out of hand.

It can't be refuted.
Kerry will need to answer BY WAY of slashing and burning everything that the Bush admin has allowed, created, done, violated, ignored, etc.
Unless Kerry SLASHES AND BURNS AND EFFECTIVELY REPUDIATES THE BUSH REGIME AS ANTI-AMERICAN by his actions and policies once in office, I will never forgive him, and will be on the bandwagon for an alternate candidate in 4 years.

[BeFree]

8. Pretzelized

Iraq is a huge mistake of American diplomacy. Kerry has no choice but to kind of go along with the play as written. To not do so means extinction.

Be like me and trust that Kerry, once he is in office, will begin a rewrite of the Iraqi playbook. He did say that far less US troops there after 4 years is his goal.
He has always stood for international involvement.
He did come back from Nam and speak against the madness when he didn't have to play along.

It makes being pretzeled up much more comfy.

[MikeG]

2. My response would be this: Thiy tukkk are jahbs!!

[Sparkly]

3. My reply:

Dear Ralph,

Give it up.

Sparkly

[KittyWampus]

4. Freepers Trying To Make Kerry Look Little Better Than Junior

trying to get Lefties to vote Nader.

Transparent strategy.

This one thought it clever to introduce Dennis into the equation.

Oh, and the Socialists are also trying to make Kerry look more pro-war/hawkish than he actually is.

[BeatleBoot]

5. Check this out Will

Not news to you, I am certain, but the GOP is working overtly and dilligently to get Nader on the Michigan ballot.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/07/09/michigan_gop_helps_nader.html

[VelmaD]

7. If anything ever truly deserved a...

"pzzzzzcheeezzz"...this was it. What orifice did they pull the Kucinich thing out of. :eyes:

You get the best emails. *snort*

[jdj]

9. Is it true that Kucinich is "refusing to intro." this legislation?

Has this been de-bunked.

I got a really infuriating letter similar to this from Green party something Nancy Oden about 6 months ago and I wrote back one of the most hateful letters of my life, telling them to get their heads out of their collective ass and put down the dope for 2 seconds, long enough to get a grip on reality. It was ugly, but I was so mad.

edit: He (?) proves his contention that the American people are stupid by making the claim that Nader is "good and honest". Where are the facts to back this up? Poor little no life person.

[supernova]

10. These people are doing nothing

to help the legitimate cause of a viable third party in this country.

They're only getting themselves laughed into irrelevancy.

[jdj]

11. These "people"

may be kkkarl Rove.

[supernova]

12. If you're talking about Nader

getting money from the GOP I already know that. I'm talking about otherwise intelligent people who do want a third party but can't seem to let go of the Nader idea for just that reason.

[DinahMoeHum]

13. Suggest you hit back with a Doris "Granny D" Haddock speech. . .

Just last week, I read Doris "Granny D" Haddock's speech of May 29, 2004. Some of her points about greens and "progressives" are well worth repeating here:

Link:
http://grannyd.com/speech20040529.htm

(snip)
...we must deal with that part of ourselves that is the selfish progressive, capable of doing more harm than good in the coming months.
(snip)
We are the selfish progressives when we think it is all about us. We require the perfect candidate who reflects our views precisely. If we cannot have such a candidate, we may not vote, or we may vote for someone who cannot win, just to show our support for our precious opinions. This grandstanding is more important to us than the lives of all the people who will die and be exploited if a fascist warmonger is elected because of our selfish narcissism.
(snip)
It is time for the factions of the left to understand that, unless they have a practical strategy for early victory, they stand in the way of justice, of environmental protection, and of peace if they continue to split the progressive vote. If they can actually win elections in some areas, that is a different matter, of course.
(snip)
If any fellow progressives are in the game only to hear themselves pontificate and wax eloquent about their wonderful values and their brilliant grasp of the issues--while others starve and die, I ask them to join Toastmasters where they can learn to make shorter, less boring speeches and also do no harm in the world. Politics is not about posturing, but about winning and losing and representing the interests of millions of people. When you take up the sword of politics, you play to win on behalf of your people, not to look pretty in your uniform.
(snip)
That same narcissism that we of the left are particularly prone to, by the way, may be on display in the convention cities this summer. Millions of television viewers trying to decide whether or not to jump ship from the incumbent will look at the mess on the streets in Boston and New York and say, well, if I have to choose sides, I know I'm not on theirs. The conventions are a time for massive action, but it had better be well organized and designed to convey real information respectfully to the American people, or it will be a selfish and damaging exercise in adult play at the expense of thousands of lives and the environment. I urge those non-delegates going to the conventions to carry thoughtful signs designed not to show only their anger, but the truth. I urge young people to consider the conventions not as an opportunity for mayhem and fun, but for service to their country and their world by using their creativity to open, not close, the hearts of the millions of Americans who will be watching. Let's look good out there. It is not in protesting alone that we find our power, but in creating change in the hearts and minds of millions of Americans. We have the power to do this, because the facts are on our side and because most Americans do care about the air, water, forests and mountains of their world, and most Americans do not side with corruption and exploitation and greed. We can only enlarge our tent by attracting people into it through our earnestness and our ability to admirably represent truth and love.
(snip)

(much much more...)


:kick::kick::kick:

[Misunderestimator]

14. Good post... narcissistic selfish progressives indeed!

:thumbsup:

[redqueen]

15. OMG Rove is getting SO Cheneying desperate!

This one, about a bill Kucinich is supposedly 'refusing' to introduce, made me LOL!

"Even if it did not pass, if it was introduced in Congress, it would create tremendous national publicity and pressure to reduce the killing and wounding of these civilians by the U.S. Government and U.S. military."

Does Rove plan anything anymore, or is he just shooting wildly in the dark, just hoping for a few hits?

:crazy:

[WilliamPitt]

16. .