9/11: I have come to a hard realization that supports a decision.

[Tyler Durden]

I decided a long time ago that I would move my family to Canada where my father was born and raised.

Many people here and elsewhere have called me a quitter and worse, but I felt this was the right thing to do.

Michael Moore and FAHRENHEIT 9/11 have confirmed this and eased my conscience.

I will now work harder than ever to leave, and when I've arrived I will help support anyone else who wishes to escape.

I will no longer support monsters with my tax money and be a monster by default.
The rift between the left and right cannot be bridged: I have been ridiculed right here on the job as someone who is "...duped by Michael Moore and his fellow Communists."
The (the Neocons) will neither ask nor give quarter. They pray for the end and work for it actively.

After seeing all of the footage in 9/11 (and realizing that 10's of MILES of film showing other right wing attrocities) I now believe that the Neocons have dug the country's grave, blindfolded it, stood it at the edge of the hole (in handcuffs and leg irons), and have kicked it in as hard as they can. What we are experiencing now is the sinking feeling as we fall toward the bottom of the pit.

The rich, neocon front will never surrender, and even if John Kerry does get elected (which IMHO is a tossup no matter what the polls say), they will spend every cent in wresting power back, which shouldn't be hard as the chances we will take back the House and/or Senate are practically nil.

I refuse to stay and have my children drafted and my family bled to death paying for the next round of wars.

The time has come to "vote with my feet," and I won't stop walking until we are all safe in Canada.

Call me a quitter if you like: I could care less. Staying in a rigged game is not only pointless, it's damned stupid.

[Fovea]

1. Everyone has their point at which they abandon a sinking ship

I do understand your point.
If * wins in 2004, I am not sure I want to live here in 2005, cause we aint seen nothing yet.

[keithyboy]

2. If i could, I would join you. Saving my money now and may still be able

to make the move by 2006. Best wishes to you and your family.

[JohnyCanuck]

3. You might buy yourself a few years, but I'm worried about Canada too.

Here's what I posted on another DU thread a few days ago in response to someone looking for info on emigrating to Canada from the US.

From a previous thread:

I suspect that if a worst case scenario occurred and Busholini suspended the elections and declared martial law in response to "terrists" attacks in the US, Canada would eventually be sucked into creating a police state here as well.

If Busholini (or his successor) was ruling as a de facto dictator under martial law I really can't see the neocons allowing us Canadians to continue on our own merry way right across their entire Northern border practicing those outdated, quaint old customs such as holding democratic elections and engaging in free speech and freedom of the press etc. For one thing that would be a very bad example for the millions of useless eaters now living under permanent military dictatorship in the USA.

It might take a year or two but within a few years I'm sure either overtly or covertly they'd arrange to have a Canadian government that was entirely sympathetic to the cause of never ending war and willing to take Canadians down the same path to a police state. It probably wouldn't take much more than a few "terrorist" attacks on Canadian soil to get our own politicians and armed forces on side with the Busholini agenda.

Also don't forget that we have oil and water, two resources that are going to become increasingly important in the not too distant future (especially in the case of oil if the Peak Oil theory is confirmed). You can be sure Busholini and Svengali Dick will be pretty darn sure that they will have control over those resources whatever it takes.

But that's just my opinion.

[DeadHead67]

8. If things were as far gone as you seem to think . . . . .

. . .no one, including you, would have seen Mike Moore's movie. Give it a couple of weeks. I understand that indictments are about to come out in the Plame/CIA outing case. Then several of their nasty asses will be on the griddle. Round Two!

[Burma Jones]

4. Ya' know, Mel Gibson's Dad took his family to Australia

Because he thought the USA had become a leftist state and that nothing would ever change that. Anyway, Canada is going to be occupied as soon as we start to really run out of water here.

[Caution]

5. Please vote before you go.

I understand your frustration and everyone has their breaking point and I won't argue with you. But if you can legally vote in this country, please do so before you go. swing state or not. I'm *hoping* this election will be a referendum for the right-wing. I'm hoping to see a landslide victory that gives the dems control of the house, the senate and the presidency and over the following year a clear majority in the SCOTUS as well.

So please, before you go, VOTE.

[Tyler Durden]

10. I will vote before we leave....

But even if the Democratic Party wins back the House and Senate, It won't be by a filibuster proof majority, which means deadlock in crisis.

I still refuse to give another 6 months worth of tax dollars to the current administration.

[Malva Zebrina]

6. Sounds fine to me

people say stay and fight. err--excuse me, but there is NO fight left. We have fought for the past three and half years--all by our self without effecting much change using the traditional venues for protests.

It seems to me, we fought as well as we, the common man, were able, and we have seen the fat American complacency and the political games our own representatives play-as well as a media that is largely owned by the "have mores", that Bush calles his "base".

It has been obvious from the beginning, that this less than intelligenly endowed, Bush was ALLOWED to do this to our country and was ALLOWED to make war, illegally, with the consent of a corrupted politicized congress and, with lies-the deaths of thousands of people rest on their souls also. Bush was ALLOWED to get away with EVERYTHING he has done, including war crimes.

I do not blame you--if I were younger I would head for Canada also, where I have visited many times . It seems a sensible country with not half the corruption, the pandering, the shallowness, the cheap sleazy lobbies, the devasting treatment of the elderly and the poor and the two party system that allowed a stupid man to overtake, to coup, the process. It's people are decent, friendly, and kind.

[info being]

7. I'm moving overseas in March

I don't want to keep providing blood money through U.S. taxes.

[mzmolly]

9. Tyler, I was born in America, my ancestors immigrated here long ago

but I'll be right behind you if Canada will have me, provided * is selected for the pResidency again.

I just watched *The Pianist* this weekend, and watched the progression of fascism and those who remained optimistic up to the point of "the showers" of Auschwitz.

Do what is best for you and yours.

:hug:

[KoKo]

11. I don't think you're a quitter. Many of us are at the point of disgust

that if we could find a better place to live we would. Our American culture is pretty much ruined anyway with the Greed and Corporate Manipulation, every place looks alike with the WalMart's and Fast Food Franchises strip Malling America into sameness.

Finding a better place is what our ancestors did. We should have the same spirit they did. America isn't the only place when it's been taken over by fascist wannabees. If one can afford it and has some skills, starting over somewhere is a hopeful positive move to make, imho.

Good Luck to you!

[Wind Dancer]

12. You will get no argument from me!

You are the only one who can decide what is best for your family, I wish you the best of luck. I still have faith and will fight back as hard as possible to get this country back. It will not be easy, the neocons don't want the natural order of things to be interrupted.

[Delano]

13. Don't let the proverbial door...

hit you on your way out.


A lot of us would leave too, if we thought it necessary to save the lives of out families. But I don't think it's at that point yet - I still care about my country.

[Tyler Durden]

20. I've fought this fight since 1970.

I've done my bit, and I REFUSE to let the Neocons dine on my wife, sons, and daughters.

The money and power brokers have made the country obsolete, and I would suggest pulling the doorknob you and I have collectively been cornholed with out of your ass. I did, and getting rid of the shit is much easier now.

[thebigidea]

21. how tacky.

[Tyler Durden]

24. I understand Delano's feelings.

20-30 years ago I'd have said the same thing: I took my chances in the Vietnam Lottery like a good citizen, all the while protesting the war.

I simply don't believe the fight is worth the lives of my family (which I truly now feel are in jeopardy) and frankly, I'm no longer convinced there's any chance of winning.

Any detective will tell you: FOLLOW THE MONEY.

[truth2power]

14. Tyler, I totally support your decision and

I've never understood why there are some here who denigrate those who want to leave. I don't think you're a quitter - I think you see the handwriting on the wall. I continue to ask what some DUers would have thought of German Jews who decided, and had the wherewithal, to leave Germany before the darkness totally descended? The lucky ones got out while they still could.

I have relatives in Canada but they are in no position to take me in. They are quite elderly, all of them. And I am no longer young either. I would have little to offer in terms of employability. I came within a few months of being born in Canada. Too bad. Maybe I would have had Canadian citizenship, I don't know.

As it is, I guess I'm stuck here. Unfortunately, I think other posters on this thread are correct, that we will forcibly take Canada's oil and water when it pleases us. So, ultimately, nowhere is really safe. :cry:

Godspeed, Tyler.

[Guaranteed]

15. I'm with you, totally.

If Kerry loses, I'll see you there. Seriously.

A country is defined by its people, and I have no desire to stand and defend those who only want to destroy themselves. There are plenty of other good democracies in this world.

[Nadienne]

16. The intelligent Germans left Germany

as Hitler came to power.

I might be asking for your help in crossing the border. :)

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

17. Freezing weather and high taxes

Where do I sign up?

[Tyler Durden]

22. Free Universal Healthcare, The Charter of Human Rights...

Yeah. Why go THERE?

[elfwitch]

18. You are absolutely correct...

You have to do what is best for you and your family. I have a son. I have only one child. I will not allow him to be sacrificed for the deeds of evil men. Should things continue on the current path, I will be seeking another nation as well. I have never felt any real allegiance to this country. I've always thought of myself as a citizen of the world. I have always felt that we would all be better off if we discarded the trappings of nationalism and all behaved like we have to breathe the same air and that we all have to drink the same water.

God speed to you and yours! You are not a quitter, you are a good father and husband.

[gpandas]

19. it's your choice, just stay with du,please

as for me, i am retired with the means to live anywhere in the world, but i take this shit personally, and will never give up. they will have to take this keyboard from my cold, dead hands. the chief problem in this country is the lack of education, and i will continue to educate myself, and, hopefully, many others. this is my country, and i would rather die than concede to these assholes. it's that fucking simple, to me. we need all of the good people to stay and fight on. i'm not arguing, i'm pleading.

[Gregorian]

23. I am buying a house in Canada as I write this

First- by moving, the problem doesn't go away. However, I didn't like overpopulated cities, so I moved to the country. It's nice here, but THERE still exists. And it will eventually affect HERE.
Second- Canada isn't perfect.
Third- I believe you pay taxes to both gov'ts until you literally expatriate from the US. And there are, I again believe, expatriation taxes. That might not mean much if one doesn't have any money to speak of.
Having said all of that, I am not moving to get away from the US, as much as the high real estate prices. I can afford Canada.
And yes, it isn't Santa Barbara. And the sun comes up at 4am and sets at 11pm. Just barely. At least, where I'm looking at living.
And it's not Santa Barbara in that there are mosquitoes. These are things I may not learn to live with.

There is no such thing as running away. That is what I've discovered. And today will tell us how Canada voted. Hopefully they have learned from our miserable failures.

Meanwhile, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

[amazona]

25. tax point

I haven't read all the replies yet but if you are a U.S. citizen even if you are living in another country you still have to pay federal taxes. :-( I have expatriate relatives dealing with this issue now. Apparently until quite recently you had a $75,000 exclusion but now all income is taxed?

If your motive is to avoid paying taxes to a brutal federal gov't, you need to research carefully and talk to a tax advisor because you may not be able to legally achieve your objective.

Just a point that you may need to investigate.