Interesting comment from my quasi-conservative friend re: F9/11

[FredScuttle]

My friend is a fiscal conservative, social liberal. He's no fan of either * or Michael Moore (thinks him a "loony lefty propagandist"), so I invited him to see Fahrenheit 9/11 with me.

As we walked out, he turned to me and said "Anyone who thinks this is propaganda is a fuckin' idiot"

Cheers to Mr. Moore for giving us the most important film of this decade.

[Room101]

1. I really enjoy hearing stories like this.

Thanks, for sharing. I really hope that F911 is reaching the people on the fence.

[FredScuttle]

4. I believe it is reaching the right people

My friend and I had a long chat after the film...we were in total agreement on pretty much everything (which is novel for a political discussion between us) and he was even expressing disgust about the sequence at the start of the film re: the CBC's failure to get ONE senator to sign on to their complaint about the disenfrachisement of Florida voters.

From the other anecdotes I've been reading here and elsewhere about the wide range of audiences this film is reaching (conservative, middle-of-the-road, swing voters), it's truly amazing to consider the impact it's having. Forget about the box office figures - this film is fulfilling Moore's dream of giving the truth to the American public - straight, no chaser - and contributing towards removing this criminal, incompetent administration from office in November.

[shockingelk]

5. Here's another feel-good story for ya, then

A bagboy who seemed to have taken excessive advantage of the free coffee for employees policy was chattering about how his girlfriend was a poli sci major and how he was learning about politics and how it was interesting to talk about politics and how he had to learn about Bush and Kerry and he didn't really like either one but didn't know much, etc.

The guy he was talking to said, "I'm a life-long Republican, I supported McCain in 2000. This time I guess I'll have to hold my nose and vote for Kerry."

I was too tired to say more than "Yeah ... Uh huh ..." when they bag boy started engaging my attention directly.

Next time he bags my bags, I'll ask him if he's seen F911 and what he thinks of Bush now.

[WillyT]

2. That Is Fantastic News, lib71 !!!

And I love your friend's realization!!!

Kudos!!!

:bounce::kick::bounce:

[shockingelk]

3. Funny how propaganda has a bad name

Propaganda is great as long as it's information and not disinformation!

[Kenergy]

6. This is good...

Thanks Lib for the report...this movie is going to be BIG.
The momentum is building up against the Chimp.

[Cat Atomic]

7. Pardon my tangent, but what the hell is a

"fiscal conservative, social liberal", anyway? I know several people who call themselves this, but when questioned about health care, a working wage, education, etc., they turn out to be liberals who don't realize it.

I suppose a Libertarian might be considered a "fiscal conservative, social liberal", but American Libertarians live in a fucking Capitalist la-la land where the law of Supply & Demand is something akin to a benevolent God.

[FredScuttle]

9. It's how he views himself...I've given up

trying to convince him otherwise...he's comfortable in labelling himself this way so I leave him be.

He considers * a disaster in every way, however, and I'm working on him daily to vote for Kerry.

[AndyTiedye]

14. Clinton Was A Fiscal Conservative

He ran a great big budget surplus!
The Repubs spent all that and have given us the biggest deficits ever.

where's that chart?

[ronabop]

15. Fiscal Conservative, Social Liberal

Fiscal conservative, as I use it to describe myself, implies setting thresholds of sane governance and funding, to manage issues where abuses and mis-uses of funds might occur.

Compare and contrast the below.

Health care:
A) All forms of health care is free, and paid for with heavy taxation. This includes any form of health care a patient deems necessary, including colonics, magnet therapy, plastic surgery for personal enhancement, use of brand-name drugs rather than generics, patients selecting their own specialist doctors (regardless of cost), etc.
B) The only forms of state provided health care which will be provided are those which are medically necessary, deemed effective, and maximize the value gained for the expense outlaid.

Working wage:
A) As of the end of the month, anybody who works more than 20 hours a week must receive the same amount as those who work 40 hours a week, and that amount will be enough to feed, clothe, and house a family of four.
B) Someone who works 40 hours a week should make enough money to self-sustain, indexed to local job markets and cost of living. If this requires a large wage adjustment, it should be phased in over time so as to not severly disrupt the economy.

Education:
A) All education, pre-school through college should be free, and state-run, regardless of the efforts of the student, or the cost to society.
B) Minimal levels of education, to all members of society, should be free, but members can opt out of the system or enhance their education with their own funds if they choose.

The term "fiscal conservative/social liberal", I believe, really became fashionable in order to differentiate from some past failed programs and systems which seemed to exercise a lack of restraint in spending. Big Dog, for example, bit the bullet and cut some spending to fix the budget, rather than just increasing taxation or the deficit. It's another way of saying "I'm a person with a progressive agenda, but I don't believe that massive tax increases, deficits, and unrestrained spending is a wise idea"

-Boppers

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goldmund]

10. So tell me something then...

When Magellan sailed around the world and his ship came back to the same point it left from, thus proving that the Earth is not flat -- was that propaganda too? After all, it must have changed some minds.

[FredScuttle]

11. Before you leave....

let me try to slow it down so you can grasp what I'm getting at.

1) Before the movie, my friend thought Moore was nothing more than a propagandist
2) After the movie, he thought that anyone who would call Fahrenheit 9/11 propaganda, especially if they hadn't seen it, is full of shit.

There...got it?

[uhhuh]

12. Is anyone else

Laughing their ass off about the fact that this person complains at having to type fast to avoid the mods, so they took the time to type that in their message?

[FredScuttle]

13. Freepers are a literal bunch

it's so nice when they're thoughtful enough to document their thought processes for us.