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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:36 PM
Original message
Rove admits they lost.
It was reported in the NY Times last week that now that the parties feel they have the core base in line they can concentrate on the swing voters.
Well if I remember correctly, last winter Rove and Co. were saying that to win they only had to get out their base. Hence all the negative ads. The negative ad blitz was meant to energize the base against Kerry and TURN OFF the average voter. Low voter turn out = stronger base wins. This is sort of what happened in the '94 elections.
If Rove and his Ministry of Fear now are saying they need to get the swing voters, then they are essentially admitting that their "Core Base" strategy is a losing endeavor. "Boy Genius" my ass.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good point.
And the "genius" is also behind Bush's lame attempt at putting on the moderate mask again. "W stands for Women", and "Peace president", for instance.

Rove is damned fool. He's ALMOST as overestimated as Bush.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not true...
Who is responsible for vicious attacks against McCain, and everyone else like Clark, O'Neil, and Plame. I think he screwed up with Plame because he started a civil war within the agencies...
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. That's probably why he was kissing up to Clinton today at the unveiling.
Bush did all he could to ABC when he came into office, and now he recognizes his mistake. He's too isolated, and he needs to have people like Clinton crack a smile with him on camera to show the world that he's still human & accessible. I hope nobody falls for it.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Please provide a link to this article...
Rove is a very smart person. I would carefully watch what is doing, and never underestimate his ability. One of the major flaws with Rove is fact that he lacks substance once you get past the marketing..
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Very smart indeed, but also very
arrogant. :-) That arrogance often undermins (self-sabotages) people, no matter how smart they are. We've seen Rove be "too cute by half" several times now, and there doesn't seem to have been any erosion in his hubris. The outlook is very good.
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Here's the link...
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. I think he's an idiot.
Look at the last presidential election.

They had a huge campaign warchest and a compliant corporate media that bashed Gore while coddling Bush. They had a platform that only needed to appeal to greed and hatred.

And they STILL lost.

Karl Rove has been skating by on 9-11 for 3 years. That distraction started wearing off not so ong ago, and he's been stepping in shit ever since.

From the silly plans for a trip to Mars while we're running massive deficits, to the "brilliant" amnesty plan that was supposed to court hispanics and instead, pissed them off (along with the Republican base). He's an idiot.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. LMAO...OK You convinced me....EOM
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh yes.
He was also responsible for the "Top Gun" disaster and bringing the Repukes here to NY for the convention...good plan:-)
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. True another screw up in addition to Plame.....EOM
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Actually, I heard that Top Gun was What's her Name's fault.
That Texas one with the book... Hughes. I thought I'd heard that Rove was not letting her live that one down.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. LOL...
Karen Hughes, but didn't she go back to Texas, and rejoined a few months back. I do know for a fact that those two don't get along...
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I could have come up with her name.
I was being lazy on purpose, just to insult her on the outside chance that she happened to pop in to see what the "libs" think of her. ;)
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I_like_chicken Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. People thinks he is a genius because...
he got an idiot like Bush into office. I must admit that takes some skill, but I think it had more to do with people being turned off by Gore's robot like presence, oh yeah, and there was Florida...
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Oh yes...
I hear that a lot. "He got Bush elected". No, Bush was not elected, HE LOST!!! The SCOTUS installed him.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. LMAO...you people are cracking me up!!!!! EOM
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Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. not to mention ...

... Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas, O'Connor and Kennedy.


MDN

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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. Rove has no idea how to get them out of this hole.
I posted about this a long time ago...last March, in fact. Here it is; and it's all much truer now.
************
So We'll Go No More A Roveing

So, you heard about this flak the Bush campaign is taking over using 9/11 in his campaign ads.

I'm going out on a limb with this, but what the hell. I got a feeling about this. I think Rove has outlived his usefulness, and it will be all downhill for them from here on in.

Rove's genius has always been about managing perception. In fact you could say that's the essence of Rove: image matters, substance doesn't. It is better to look good than to be good; in fact, actually doing anything to help the country is just wasted time that could be spent refining your public image. It's cynical to the core; but it has worked very well for Bush for a long time.

In a lot of ways, Bush is the perfect product for Rove's packaging: vacant, passive, and apparently infinitely manipulable. I don't think it's an accident that the market has been flooded with Bush dolls, some satirical and some reverent: I think that's evidence that even Bush's supporters recognize on some level that his value to this administration is his ability to put on and carry off whatever costume they slap on him. His supporters no doubt like being able to remake him in their own minds according to what they want and need; his detractors find that unsettling. From Rove's point of view, Bush's greatest assets were a) the fact that he has no pesky authentic substance that might interfere with the processing and b) his ability to genuinely enjoy whatever role he was playing that week.

The smart thing about Rove's approach was the way it exploited the role that television now plays in forming the average American's view of the world. The dumb thing about it is that it does not work for anyone whose understanding of reality is informed by anything *other* than the media under Rove's control. Once the viewers at home realize that their perception _isn't_ reality, and start comparing the two, it's pretty much over for Rover.

Rove's entire strategy depends on a reader who is too naive, lazy, or ideologically blinded to ask for a second opinion. All of those photo-ops, and all the campaign ads unveiled thus far, assume an audience that has not been exposed to or retained any information that would counteract their 'message.' Bush's state of the union speeches work the same way: if you only know what he's telling you, it all sounds really good. They presume a reader who accepts what he sees on television as the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Unfortunately for Rove, those readers are getting rarer; and that's because reality has gotten so ugly that people have started to realize that they need to find out more about it--not because they care, necessarily, but because their survival instincts are finally kicking in. Bush is insulated from the consequences of his actions; but we aren't, and the more jobs are lost and the more Americans die overseas the fewer naive readers Rove is going to be able to pitch his message to. And here is the beauty of that, my friends. Once an individual reader becomes aware of the gap between the reality and the Rovian image of it, *none of Rove's strategies work.*

This is why, in my opinion, "Mission Accomplished" was the turning point. That banner made a definite claim that had to be ratified by reality. Reality failed to play along. That was the beginning; and now that the weapons of mass destruction premise has been exploded, there are even more readers out there looking at these images with new cynicism. And so it does not matter how much money they spend or what new packages they come up with. They have blown their credibility, and now the very thing that used to work so well for them--the airy disregard for the facts of the matter in favor of an unrelated image--is going to kill them.

Consider the 9/11 ads, for instance. No doubt Rove realizes that this is a risk, what with the desecration of the dead and all; no doubt he realizes that this will only evoke questions about Bush's stalling of the commission and his strange behavior on the day in question. But they *have* to run on this. They have nothing else. They have spent three years pissing away the treasury, the economy, and everyone's lifeblood and they've got nothing to show for it. All they can run on is Bush's image; and unfortunately for them, all of their images now come attached to very ugly realities. Carrier landing? 500+ dead. Turkey in Baghdad? Still not safe there. Flight suit? AWOL. 9/11? WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOU?

So it's nto going to work; but they are going to do it anyway. They have no choice. Rove is a one-trick pony. This managing-the-image thing is *all he knows how to do.* He's never had to care what the reality was before. He's been making a career out of *not* caring. The fact that his strategy is no longer working will by no means tempt him to abandon it, no matter how desperate things become--because *he doesn't have a plan B.* So he is just going to keep making the same mistakes over and over until finally he and his crew are outta there.

They who live by the photo-op shall die by the photo-op. And when the photo-op boots their asses out the door in November 2004, I for one am going to be lovin' it.
**************

W00t,

The Plaid Adder
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Bravo Plaid...I think I remember reading this awhile back..EOM
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Bravo Plaid...I think I remember reading this awhile back..EOM
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. By jove, I think he's got it
Very insightful, PA!
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. New slogan/strategy: Oh that Kerry and his NEGATIVE ATTACKS!
good grief, GOP, look at your boy's own site and get a clue! You are the negative ones!

They never tire of singing those endless rhyming lies at the top of their little puffed out lungs, do they? How can they think they have won anything when it ia all based on lies?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Perception
In an interview Leslie Stahl said that once people start to have the perception that GW in the flight suit is a joke on him and his Admin. it will be over for his re-selection. The perception that he is a phony will be in people's minds way more than any substance of any issues. I tend to feel that she may be correct. The "Mission Accomplished" and phony flyer pose is now a farce in most people's minds, except for the freepers aka Bush Cult.

Now with the V. Plame Outing and the FBI and CIA not backing down and the Prisoners Torture issue leading to approval by the Pres, VP and Rumsfailed starting to take hold it is a down hill slide for BushCo.

The key is that Congress and the Supreme Court must be forced to defend and protect The Constitution of the USA against a Right Wing Dictatorship!!!
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