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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:19 AM
Original message
Red Cross ultimatum to U.S. on Saddam
Edited on Mon Jun-14-04 12:20 AM by spanone
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1238263,00.html Red Cross ultimatum to US on Saddam

Release him, charge him or break international law, Bush told
This is a story that appears in the Guardian. British newspaper. Any mention of this in the U.S. press?
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. They dont care. They want this trial on closer to the election.
They want to take up every spare minute of every single news cycle from here on in.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Can you imagine what they have been doing to Saddam?
...not that I feel sorry for him, but they probably don't fall in line with the "usual" treatment of Heads of State who are Prisoners of War and guilty of war crimes....

Hey Bush and Rummy - its called the Hague - they will conduct an international war crime tribunal....its where other ex-friends and future roommates of yours go to...
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Clank clank Bang!
shuffle shuffle clank clank Bang! shuffle shuffle clank clank Bang!

Do I hear someone going to prison???
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Oh.. the Hague.. SCARY LINK!!
Edited on Mon Jun-14-04 01:02 AM by Caliphoto
A few years ago, and barely noticed, some type of bill or policy was enacted by Bush's government. See.. it allows the U.S. to use military force against the Hague IF any of our citizens, soldiers, or leaders are charged there. Yes.. it's true. The U.S. has an authorization in place to allow a military assault on the Hague, to free war criminals from the United States. Sounds like they knew what they were doing. Wish I had a link.. someone here on DU will know where to find that..

ON EDIT! FOUND THE LINK:

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/7.html

snip..

<<Furthermore, in what is being called The Hague Invasion Act, or the Services Members' Protection Act, the G.O.P.-controlled House Appropriations Committee voted to authorize the use of military force to "rescue" any American brought before the ICC. Erica Terpstra, a parliamentary representative in the Netherlands where The Hague and ICC is located, states that this "is not only a gesture against the Netherlands…but against the entire international community.">>

And this one:
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm THat's from Human Rights Watch. Sounds like the Bush people knew what they were doing back in 2002
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Jesus Christ! I thought you must have been mistaken...
but here's the link...

http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm

we are dealing with a monster. i hope our party's leaders realize this.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. What the F**K...I knew Bush Co. had rejected signing the ICC, but I didn't
...realize that they even pushed for such "laws" that allow it to actually "invade" the Netherlands and physically prevent a US serviceman or "Representative - ie. Bush" to be prosecuted in front of the ICC.....Wow, these people actually planned this shit from the beginning didn't they? This is just so unf*cking believable...I feel like I'm stuck in a bad nightmare...its just not possible is it that we are living in a country that was supposed to have been founded on the constitution and law?
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Fear Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. U.S.: 'Hague Invasion Act' Becomes Law
Edited on Mon Jun-14-04 09:26 AM by Fear
ow it's all been happening.......and most people all thought it was a *CONSPIRACY THEORY* when it was brought to the daylight.

http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm
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Fear Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Declaration by the EU on the Position of the US Towards the International
Edited on Mon Jun-14-04 09:49 AM by Fear
from:
http://www.wfa.org/issues/wicc/unsigning/euonunsigning.html

1. The European Union takes note with disappointment and regret of the decision by the United States on 6 May 2002 formally to announce that it does not intend to ratify the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) and that it considers itself released from any legal obligation arising from its signature of the Statute on 31 December 2000.

2. While respecting the sovereign rights of the United States, the European Union notes that this unilateral action may have undesirable consequences on multilateral Treaty-making and generally on the rule of law in international relations.

3. The European Union restates its belief the anxieties expressed by the United States with regard to the future activities of the ICC are unfounded and that the Rome Statute provides all necessary safeguards against the misuse of the Court for politically motivated purposes. It is confident that this will become self-evident when the Court begins its work. The European Union is disappointed that the United States has felt obliged to act as it has without the benefit of actual experience of the Court's activities. It believes that such experience will show that the United States can associate itself fully with the Court.

4. The European Union is also concerned at the potentially negative effect that this particular action by the United States may have on the development and reinforcement of recent trends towards individual accountability for the most serious crimes of concern to the international community and to which the United States shows itself strongly committed.

5. For its part, the European Union reaffirms its determination to encourage the widest possible international support for the ICC through ratification or accession to the Rome Statute and its commitment to support the early establishment of the ICC as a valuable instrument of the World Community to combat impunity for the most serious international crimes.

6. The European Union expressed the hope that the United States will continue to work together and impartial international criminal justice and will not close the door to any kind of cooperation with the ICC which is going to be a reality in the near future. The European Union stands ready for such a dialogue.

Nice continuing story:
http://www.wfa.org/issues/wicc/unsigning/usrejectssupport.html
WASHINGTON, May 6 — Bush administration officials said today that the new International Criminal Court should expect no cooperation from the United States, and that its prosecutors would not be given any information from the United States to help them bring cases against any individuals.
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JP Belgium Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. How about NATO ?

the Netherlands are member of NATO, how can the US invade a NATO member?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Good question, but then again we are talking about Bush Co...NATO is
...just another "int'l organization" that he can tell to screw themselves when he feels like it...kind of like an abusive boyfriend who keeps rejecting the girlfriend, beating her up and then when he "needs" her says he loves her and wants her back....look at Dubya this week with the UN vote and the G8 meeting....
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Fear Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. it's a political game, that can result in a greater war you can even
start to imagine. It gives the power that it's possible. And there are ALOT of Americans unfortunately that would LOOOOVEEEEE to free *whatever American* is held / and they support Bush & co. The Netherlands can become an enemy as well. An enemy of Justice :puke:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. NATO? Just another focus group.
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Fear Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. OPEN ARMS, we welcome all war criminals.......the Hague awaits you all.
We even provide prisoners with a tv set with European news 24/7
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. I had read that Saddam is dying of cancer...
.. has anyone else heard that? He is supposedly in last stages of lymphatic cancer. If it's true, I hope he passes away quietely before Bush can use him in a trial, for political purposes.
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. He might die of natural causes before then...
He is pretty damned old. Although cancer seems to be nature any more.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. It's pretty easy to charge Saddam with something
he did plenty of murders for political reasons, eg his sons-in-law. It might be better news for some others, eg the non-Baath scientist mentioned in thte article.
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Fear Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. SOOO, should we sue those that sold the weapons 'with a purpose' to the
crook?, I mean - small time cases have been tried many times in the US......wouldn't that be ironic eh?
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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. it's been a major story on msnbc tv this morning
just sitting here watching tv, surfing du, and trying to wake up. sorry no link.
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Fear Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
18. Bush Administration "Unsigns" Rome Statute
http://www.wfa.org/issues/wicc/unsigning/unsigning.html

see links on that page



Today, at the request of the president, our mission up -- in the United Nations deposited a note with the U.N. secretary-general as the depository of the Rome treaty for the International Criminal Court stating that the United States does not intend to become a party to the ICC treaty and accordingly has no legal obligation as a result of our signature on December 31st, 2000. The president decided that this step was appropriate and an important one in order make our position clear -- our position that we will not support the ICC, believing that the document is flawed in many regards.

The president has also made clear and is making clear that he is committed to combating war crimes, committed for the United States to play a leadership role in the world to address these abuses as they occur. We took this rare action but not unprecedented action today in order to give us the flexibility to protect our interests and the flexibility to pursue alternative approaches. The president has also made it clear that we respect the right of other states to be part of the ICC, but we ask them in turn to respect our right not to be part of the ICC process.

In pursuing accountability, we will seek an alternative approach, one that we feel is a better approach, more tailored at getting to the core and the heart of the problem that are facing today. And that approach is primarily to put the responsibility back to where it belongs, and that is with the states. We want to create an environment where the states have the capacity to address these issues, they have the political willingness to address these issues. We believe that if we can build these democracies and the rule of law in these states, it acts as a constraint against abuse and a constraint against excesses of power.

In support of this alternative mechanism, the United States will be prepared to support politically, financially, technically and logistically any state -- post-conflict state that seeks to credibly pursue accountability for violations of humanitarian law. We will support creative ad hoc approaches, such as we see in Sierra Leone, where there is a division of labor between the international community and the sovereign state. We will be asking Congress to help us in finding the necessary resources in order to combat these problems. We will seek to mobilize the private sector, to see if the private sector can play a role in this regard, either through funding or other contributions. We will seek to create a pool of experienced judges, lawyers, prosecutors, who will be willing to work on short notice, in order to help ingrain the rule of law in these societies. And we will take steps within the United States to fill any gaps that we may have in our laws, to ensure that the United States does not become a safe haven for war criminals and indicted persons.

We will be looking to work with the international community. This is a multilateral approach. We will ask our allies and friends to join us here. We will ask the NGO community and the United Nations to join us in this regard because we do believe there is common ground. We believe that it cannot be disputed that the best way to combat abuses and atrocities is to rebuild and enhance the domestic willingness and capacity to deal with these issues as a front-line approach.

With that, I'd like to open the floor for any questions. Thank you.

MODERATOR: Please wait for the mike, introduce yourself and your organization.

Sir?

Q Good afternoon, Ambassador. My name is Paul Koring. I'm with the Globe and Mail of Canada. I realize hypotheticals are always difficult, but I'm trying to understand the degree to which Washington intends to have nothing to do with the ICC. In some of the ad hoc tribunals on war crimes, Washington and U.S. service personnel have been instrumental in providing either documents, evidence or witness testimony against those charged, both with respect to the Balkans and in Africa.

What would happen, for instance, if a third-party national brought before the ICC and the case rested, or rested in part on evidence gathered by either U.S. service personnel or the U.S. government; will you have nothing to do with this, even, for instance, in terms of the provision of witnesses and evidence?

Thank you.
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