Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

BBV: Andy Stephenson's lawsuit got RESULTS!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:16 AM
Original message
BBV: Andy Stephenson's lawsuit got RESULTS!
Not exactly the one we expected (King County is still using uncertified software) but a very productive result nonetheless:

David Elliott, state elections director, had to resign. When Andy's lawsuit went into discovery, Elliott went into hiding -- took an extended leave of absence for "mental health reasons" (the better to avoid a subpeona). But now he is out altogether. From what I understand, current secretary of state Sam Reed, who was being sued by Andy, was on the hot seat so badly over the uncertified software problems that he had to find someone to scapegoat. So he basically pushed Elliott out the door.

This is a bigger deal than it may seem -- David Elliott is one of the national kingpins who has been pushing invisible ballots. He sat on the National Association of State Elections Directors (NASED) board for many years. He went up against me and DU's RedEagle many times on radio, advocating touch screens, saying they were safe because they were so carefully certified.

Elliott went around the country touting touch screens, and around the state pushing paperless voting, but now all he gets to do is putter around the garden.

Congratulations, Andy, for your courage and leadership. I know it hasn't been an easy nine months for you.

Bev Harris
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Gato Moteado Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. andy kicks ass!
david elliot is down. sam reed is next.

keep on rockin' bev and andy!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good news
Thank you Andy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harmonyguy Donating Member (589 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yee Haaaaaaaa !!
I wonder how many more will have to take leave.....
so many seem to have already taken leave.....of their senses.

HG

(In God we trust
- touch screens ain't God
- I vote with paper & pencil)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Congratulations!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cmayer Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. One person can make a difference...
because they can convince many others to make a difference.

I got to make an impromptu speech tonight to that effect to some college students and people getting involved in politics for the first time. I told them it was easy to make a difference.

What Andy has done is much, much harder. It requires more commitment than most people can ever give.

I will make a toast tomorrow night to Andy Stephenson, to commitment and to making a difference. I will expect 50 of my closest friends to raise their glasses.

They can find out what it's all about later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. Bev, your warmed by heart with that post
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks Bev.
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 12:40 AM by God_bush_n_cheney
You shoulda seen Sam Reeds forehead Tuesday when we were in the WEA (Washington Education Assn.)interview. Furrowed brow...beads of sweat forming...the WEA sizing up both of the Real Candidates...they know who the contender in this race is. Three ladies were winking and smiling at me. They were passing the Vanity Fair, Bev's Book and Gore Vidal's Book around. They only looked up when I talked.

Reed went pale when I told the WEA that "Mr. Reed had fallen down on the job" and I told one of the ladies from Chelan that "Mr Reed has allowed a test version one that should have never been released to be used in your county." After the meeting...she came up and asked more questions.

Mr Reed did not address the charges and the teachers were on to his Game. The ladies far outnumbered the men on the panel, I have their support and imagine I will win their endorsement.

Had loads of fun...Oh and I told them "You can find Mr Reed in the index if you would like to see what he has been up to." :evilgrin:...the pages turned fast.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PDX Bara Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Touch Screen Voting
When I voted in March, I was directed to a touch screen (in Berkeley CA) but refused to use it and requested a paper ballot instead which was given to me. I can't attest to whether or not it was counted but I got my receipt and sticker that says "I voted" and I felt better for myself if for no other reason than that it takes a little more effort to make a mistake with a paper ballot. Congratulations, Andy. I was born in Washington State and wish I could have been there to vote for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Well the election is coming and I smell fear in both of my
opponents.

Give if you can


www.andystephenson.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bev Harris coming up soon on the mike Webb Show?
http://stream.mikewebb.org:8000/listen.pls
or
KIRO 710AM at 11:00 PM PST

Still on I assume?

And hearty congratulations to Andy (Donations and info at http://www.andystephenson.com/ ).

Lyrics from one of those nasty commercial sites
Artist: http://www.yanntiersen.com/ev/index.htm

Les Jours Tristes

It’s hard,
hard, not to sit on your hands,
burrow your head in the sand,
hard, not to make other plans
and claim that you’ve done all you can,
all alone
and life
must go on.

It’s hard,
hard, to stand up for what’s right
and bring home the bacon each night,
hard, not to break down and cry,
when every ideal that you tried
has been wrong.
But you must
carry on.

Ref:
It’s hard,
but you know it’s worth the fight,
cause you know you’ve got the truth on your side,
when the accusations fly.
Hold tight!
Don’t be afraid of what they’ll say.
Who cares what cowards think? Anyway,
They will understand some day,
some day.

It’s hard,
hard, when you’re here all alone
and everyone else’s gone home.
Harder to know right from wrong
when all objectivity’s gone
and it’s gone.
But you still
carry on.

‘cause you,
you are the only one left
and you’ve got to clean up this mess.
You know you’ll end up like the rest
Bitter and twisted - unless
you stay strong
And you
carry on.

Ref:
It’s hard,
but you know it’s worth the fight,
cause you know you’ve got the truth on your side,
when the accusations fly.
Hold tight!
Don’t be afraid of what they’ll say.
Who cares what cowards think? Anyway,
They will understand some day,
some day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kick -- good news for morning coffee drinkers
Tally for this week: two state election directors have resigned

- David Elliott, Washington State -- to see why we are glad, visit chapters 13 or 15 of the Black Box Voting book -- just do a search for "Elliott"

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-13.pdf
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-15.pdf

And Mr. Kast, the state elections director of Florida also resigned, in connection with the renewed efforts to purge felons. I never could figure out whether they pushed him out because he refused to purge more, or what. Florida is neck and neck -- 47% for Bush, 47% for Kerry. So consider how important it is that 20,000 people wrongfully purged in 2000 have still not gotten their vote back! The counties said, sure the courts said we have to restore their rights -- but they didn't say when we had to do it.

Florida is as bizarro as ever.

Bev
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. We used to call the officials lies and obfuscation the...
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 09:34 AM by God_bush_n_cheney
Blackbox Shuffle...I think the term has earned a new definition.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
soup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Even if Ed Kast was pushed out over the new voter purging,
which now appears to be the case - Don't forget he was in charge of the department when the exception was made for the electronic voting machines that there is nothing to recount so there will be no recounts.

Again, congratulations Andy! and the state of Washington. You give us hope.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
13. Oh Happy Day! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
14. That is good news!
Interesting that "mental health reasons" was used. Usually it's to spend "more time with the family".

My thanks to you both for all that you are doing! :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Building a defense?
:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
soup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
15. Congratulations Andy! This is great news.
Congratulations also goes to the state of Washington. You are very lucky to have GBnC fighting (and winning) for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Congrats, Does the Lawsuit go Forward, and the Deck is Still stacked
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 10:10 AM by RedEagle
Congrats Andy. Elliott's dismissal ought to bring up even more questions and investigations in Washington State and the country.

Every person who sat on NASED's Voting Systems Board, especially long time members like Elliott, should be investigated.

Brit Williams of Georgia
Paul Craft of Florida (one major reason you won't see paper there
and pushing for all electronic voter registration records)
Denise Lamb (New Mexico?- past member)

The list goes on and many are associated with voting woes in their state.

Does the lawsuit go forward? Elliott can still be called in, right? Leaving the State Election Directors position doesn't get him off the hook.

Now, how about Dean Logan, who was actually State Election Director until he took the King County job, with Elliott pulling the strings from below. He's got responsibility in what went on, too, as do past offcials Ralph Munro and Gary McIntosh. (Those two went to work pronto for VoteHere)

The deck is, unfortunately, still stacked. Keep in mind that Pam Floyd, likely to be the new Elections Director, made a stopover of less than a year in King County after working for VoteHere. So Washington State potentially has an ex-vendor employee in a critical seat. VoteHere has had a direct, IV drip into election issues in Washington State for too long.

Andy's opponent for the Democratic nomination, Ruderman, BACKED Reed'
s bill the last legislative session, BACKED alternative verification methods,(electronic verification) and when the Senate bill came over without language for alternative verification, put alternative verification BACK IN the legislation.

Ruderman talks the talk, like Reed did, but she will not deliver. There can be vast differences in what a candidate says and what appears on paper in a bill. By carefully wording legislation, anything can be neutered.

Reed- plan A. Ruderman- plan B.

Too many democrats in Washington State have their heads in the sand on this one.

Go Andy!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Updates --
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 12:03 PM by BevHarris
They didn't make (former VoteHere person) Pam Floyd the director -- instead they hired what was described to me as a "triple-dipping Republican lackey with no elections experience" -- Nick something? Forgot the name already. He worked with Sam Reed before Reed was S.O.S., in Thurston County, where they have had their own problems with election fraud. He was a lobbyist or something...we'll have to get the details.

The lawsuit can be appealed, but EFF told Andy not to saying he'll set a bad precedent for everywhere else. I don't know about that, asked for a second opinion. EFF also told a group in Ohio not to go forward, and a group in Texas not to go forward with lawsuits. Bears watching. They are helping with the Maryland lawsuit.

I have new information -- well, not new, but I finally read the 159-page report put out by the group supposedly making recommendations for King County. BAD NEWS!

First, Dean Logan, according to the minutes of the group, quotes the SAIC report as saying that in the context of elections procedures and safeguards, Diebold has the most secure system anywhere. That is taken from the misleading Diebold press release, and of course, the SAIC report said that there were 328 security flaws, 26 deemed critical, and that the whole GEMS program (used in King County) needed to be rewritten -- that part was completely redacted, and David Elliott told me (though I find this doubtful) that as state elections director he was unable to see the redacted portions of the report. The RABA report also recommended a complete rewrite of GEMS. So why the hell is Logan putting a happy face on everything?

But the worst part of all: They've done away with any meaningful audit of the paper ballot at all.

Word of caution to those in optical scan counties

In the happy little feel-good 159-page King County report, they reveal their plan for looking at your paper ballot: They will choose just one polling place (there are several hundred) and they will simply RERUN the data on a machine. Then they will hand pick, not randomly select, just one ballot question, and that is the only thing they will hand audit. For absentee ballots, they will pick one batch of 300 ballots from each of the 16 (or 20, depending on who you ask) machines used to run the absentee ballots. They will cherry pick just one ballot question only and hand count that. Not the whole ballot, folks.

Now, for the numbers: That means they'll hand count just one cherry-picked ballot question on about 1,000 ballots out of 400,000 cast; and they'll hand count one selected question on about 6,000 ballots out of about 600,000 absentee ballots.

That's ONE BALLOT QUESTION only, out of about 50 choices, on just one-quarter of a percent of the polling place ballots. And ONE BALLOT QUESTION out of about 50 choices on one percent of absentee ballots.

Here's the audit procedure -- and when I asked former King County Elections Supervisor Julie Ann Kempf (who happens to be one of the good guys, folks) about this, she said they've dropped it down from what it used to be -- and she was instructed by Sam Reed not to spot check three percent, because he told her that was considered an unauthorized recount.

Absentee: "one batch from each machine, picked at random, should have one race hand counted to verify the accuracy of each machine.

Polling place: Audit one randomly-chosen polling place for each election. That audit would include a full recount (by machine) of all races and issues and a hand recount of one race or issue.

Question: Why are we doing LESS, not more auditing, on machines that use uncertified software?

Bev
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. Extended leave of absence for "mental health reasons".....
No shit! He obviously has crittically poor mental health!!!!

:bounce::hi::toast: KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, ANDY!! :beer::party::bounce:

This is soooo wonderful! I hope we can get things turned around in every state in the union before the general election.

After reading Mike Ruppert's articles on the issues of voting as it pertains to the "powers that be" pulling the world's strings, I'm more convinced than ever that we need to start making auditable elections the first priority of this country -- and next, the rest of the world's democracies.

We're up against some insidiously evil puppeteers in this world, and they seem to use the U.S. as their favorite practicing grounds. If we're going to save this globe, we first have to save the votes, and then educate the people.....therefore, taking control of the press comes in a close second to the voter protections.

:kick::kick::kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I wish you could see the video tape I have of him...
and Sam Reed (Current Secretary of State). They certainly don't want that to get out...could prove embarrasing. I am glad Elliott is gone. He is a snake in the grass and I have never trusted the man.

Now I need to send Mr Reed on to a long retirement.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I REALLY hope you win this race, Andy....
O8) More than anything, I hope you WIN! O8)

I'd love to see that video! Especially the part w/ him sweating bullets!

:bounce:

YES!!!

:bounce:


The BBV team strikes again!

:kick::kick::kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. My favorite part is when Reed starts to run out of the room
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 11:55 AM by BevHarris
and the part where he says "those people are out to get me."

Oh, and I like the one at the League of Women Voters meeting where the crowd starts chanting at him, "answer the question answer the question" and he responds by holding the program in front of his face.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. You're JOKING!!!!
ROFL!! That's hilarious.....true, of course, but hilarious nevertheless!

:bounce: Let's finish 'GETTING' him! Let's "get" all of them! :bounce:

Now I REALLY wish I could see the video! I wish (more!) that I could have been there to witness the whole thing.

GO GET 'EM, BEV, ANDY, REDEAGLE! You guys are great. :yourock:

:kick::kick::kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. She is not joking...
I have it right here on tape. :evilgrin: My video cam...best money I ever spent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Yes...where he said
"Joycelyn...do we have to put up with this?"

To that I say Yes Mr Reed...You have much to answer for.

And you will come November!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. More "Black Box Shuffle" video
People also shout "answer the question answer the question" at Sideshow Bob (real name: Bob Terwilliger, Snohomish County auditor and proponent of paperless voting).

And attorney at state attorney general's office makes a face like a codfish and holds it for four seconds when I inform him that an embezzler was programming King County's voting system.

And then the one with David Elliott, where he tells Andy (on tape) "I really wish this conversation could be less formal! Meaning, "get that damn camera off me!"

And not on video, but also my favorite: The woman who works in the secretary of state office (they seem to love Andy to pieces, can't get coffee fast enough when he comes in; then they huddle behind the desk when the officials come in) -- when his lawsuit was served, she said "oh I'll get this to him personally" and enthusiastically hand-stamped every page to prove it had been received.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Just got back to my computer....man! This is great entertainment!
Sounds like you guys totally humiliated the bad guys with your FAR SUPERIOR research and HONESTY about the real issues! The vote fraud advocates just can't compete in such an environment.

Keep that camcorder rolling, Andy! Can any of those spots be made into a campaign commercial? Would MoveOn help with the financing of it .... especially if you could use it as part of a NATIONAL campaign against BBV?

:bounce::hi::toast: This is too good! :beer::hi::bounce:

:kick::kick::kick::kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Hey...
I have hours of tape...Mischelle Townsend of Riverside...She put her hands in front of her face. :evilgrin: She looked quite fetching. I wonder why she was so afraid of the cam? :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. Wow. Our Democracy depends on people like you
This is entirely awesome.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
31. Andy is THE MAN!
:toast:

Someday, my friend, I'd like to REALLY buy you a beer!

We owe you and Bev and all the rest a debt we can never repay.

Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. That's so true, tom_paine
"We owe you and Bev and all the rest a debt we can never repay."

Truer words were never spoken.

But!! We can START by contributing to Andy's campaign!! And by donating some $$ to Bev's web site. These guys are running up huge $$ bills ON OUR BEHALF!

Let's kick in some more $$!!

:kick::kick::kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Help pay the debt by voting on election day...
and keeping the issue front and center where it belongs.

Andy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Always, my friend...always.
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 02:40 PM by tom_paine
Check the sigline, dude!

:bounce: :bounce:

(whups, I guess the sigs are offline, but you know what's there!)

They'll have to kill me to stop me from speaking out daily. I mean that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. With the screen name "Tom Paine"
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 02:48 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
I know this true.

"They'll have to kill me to stop me from speaking out daily."

You are a true patriot...not a plastic flag...corporate produced patriot .

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. Any press reports on this?
I'd like to report it on truthout.

:toast: to Andy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Run with it Will...
I would Be honored for you to do the story!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Do it, Will!
:toast: And one for you, my friend! :beer:

I'll look forward to seeing how you write about this! Maybe Andy could send you a copy of the video, so you could have some visuals!

Man! I REALLY wish I could have been there to see it in person!

:kick::kick::kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. GO ANDY!!!
*big smooches*

I promise a big ol' hug when I see ya. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
41. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Apr 29th 2024, 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC