Are you a Bigot??

[VoteClark]

I hear lots of bigoted comments on hear about the Military.

I think it is narrow minded of someone to say that they are against someone serving office because of having served in the military.

How is this any different than saying someone should not serve in an office because they are a women, or are not white?

There have been 8 Generals that served as President, from the worst, as Grant, to the best as Washington.

Every President, except Clinton, has served in uniform.

I am trying to think why someone would be opposed to someone who had once held the title of General would be a bad president.

Is it because they think a General would go to war because they love war?

Is it because they think they are stupid and have no brains and can't use thought to get through a problem?

Is it because they think they would declare marshall law and ignore the consititution?

When was the last time a war started under a former General that was President?

None of these stereotypes by narrow minded bigots apply to Wesley Clark.
Clark hates war, he has been in it. Clark does not just think in military terms. He has done more, much more than be a general. He has more education and brains in his pinky than Bush has in his entire body. Clark is a genius, he is a best selling author, a debator, a stratigist, he has three degrees from Oxford, he founded leadership for American, he worked in the White House writting the US budget.
He has build diplomatic relationships with over 50 countries.
The only thing this man has not done is run for office.

Instead, people are saying what we need is career politicans, trial lawyers, and CEO's as our leaders. These are the people that got us into this mess. These are people that robbed the stock market, our health insurance, our schools, and passed the corrupt laws that we have today.

Clark is an American, his loyality is for the common person, the person on street, the person that works everyday, the person that has nothing and had to work for a living, and the persons that care about the overall welfare of the people in country.
Clark is not about special interests, or about rigging the laws to serve them. He is about working for the average Joe and Jane on the street. He hasn't been taking donations for Enron, Shell, and McDonalds.

If you can't look past the title of General and look at man himself, Wesley, the individual, then you are no better than the people that wouldn't look at Black man, a Hispanic Man, or Women for an office. You are no better than the people that lump all Blacks, Gays, Hispanics, or Jews into one group. You are sterotyping and profiling based ONE characteristic, not the person as a whole.
What you are is a Bigot.

:kick:
J4Clark

[MiltonLeBerle]

1. If I were a bigot-

I wouldn't be pulling for Bill Richardson to have a spot on the 2004 ticket.

other than that, you're preaching to the choir in me.

Wesley Clark/Bill Richardson in 2004
That's the ticket...

[sfecap]

2. Oh, bullshit.

And that's the second time you have made a blatently incorrect statement:

"Every President, except Clinton, has served in uniform."

Not true. Better do your homework.

[anti_shrub]

4. Do we need to mention Shrubbie?

He had a uniform, but never bothered to show up to wear it.....

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

7. Lincoln has not been in uniform AFAIK

prove that he was in the military. That is easier than proving he wasn't.

[VoteClark]

12. John Adams served in the Military

[MiltonLeBerle]

15. yes hes was.

during the blackhawk wars of 1832...

[Aristus]

17. Lincoln served as a Captain of Militia during the Black Hawk War.

For that reason, I left him off my list. See below.

[JVS]

26. Militias and Reserves form a grey area to me

Also doing a several year term in the military, ala JFK, isn't quite the same as making a career out of it. You don't become a General in a 5 year term, it takes a lot of time.

[VoteClark]

53. So punish people for success?

[JVS]

59. which is success, staying in or leaving?

[JVS]

8. I don't recall John Adams being in the Military

[VoteClark]

48. You old enough to remember?

[JVS]

9. When did FDR serve in the military? I never heard of him being in.

[comsymp]

16. Technically, FDR was Asst Sec Nav

or some such similar post during WWI... but how 'bout Jefferson?

[JVS]

23. That is not a military position, it is a cabinet position

[comsymp]

25. Right, but

the original post specified "in uniform" so to be completely, technically accurate, I'd give him credit for a military position... just like Raygun, who served in uniform by making training films in H'wood.

[JVS]

30. Dubious at best

Cabinet positions just aren't military. The Surgeon General is technically a general, but we all know better.

[comsymp]

32. Absolutely

but the argument was so weak that I figured a little extra leeway was in order.

[JVS]

35. I don't think we should handicap ourselves when given a bullshit argument

Anyway, he said all but 1 and we showed another and that is all it takes for his argument to be revealed as a hideous and heinous lie.

[comsymp]

40. That's the attitude I'd expect from

a Klinkite...

DRAFT SHULTZ!!!

[JVS]

41. But Schultz is an incompetent boob!

Klink all the way!

You certainly have your eyes on the different areas.

[comsymp]

43. Of course he is

Which is why he's perfect- would make the transition from * all that much smoother~
And yeah, I get around :evilgrin:

[VoteClark]

45. No, assistant Secretary is not, Secretary was-Still in the Military

[JVS]

46. Did FDR do basic training?

[MiltonLeBerle]

11. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison...

for starters

http://www.magweb.com/sample/wl020pre.htm

[VoteClark]

18. They served in the British Army, US didn't exist

[JVS]

33. One could choose not to count that as serving this country

[VoteClark]

37. Yes, but it was made up for by writing the Consititution, don't ya think?

[JVS]

39. No

[sfecap]

13. Actually there are more then one...

Instead of panting after Supreme Commander Wesley, perhaps you ought to do your research.

Start with Adams, Jefferson, Madison...

Or how about Taft, Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover...

http://www.magweb.com/sample/wl020pre.htm

Now...go do your homework...

[MiltonLeBerle]

20. Taft thru FDR is a long run of non-military presidents.

1909-1945

[VoteClark]

47. Taft was Sectretary of War

FDR, Assistant secretary of the Navy

[JVS]

49. Secretary of war is now Secretary of Defense, so if Taft was military

then Rumsfeld is no longer a chicken-hawk.

[VoteClark]

34. State Militias

Are not listed. Just US service. State Militias were not listed as Federal Service.

:kick:
J4Clark

[sfecap]

44. That's right...you quibble just like...

your (non) candidate!

No wonder you like him so much!

[VoteClark]

50. Sfecap when Dean loses

I am going to rub it in your nose, every time you come on here. Over and over again. And am I ever going to enjoy it so much!

:kick:
J4Clark

[sfecap]

52. LOL...

BTW...am I still a liar?

[VoteClark]

55. Yes and

a loser, backing a person bent on detroying the party for his own personal gain.

Every president served a military. In the Milita, or the British Army, or the US Army, or in an appointed officer postion. Except Clinton.

I am sure you can make an argument that the state Milita doesn't count. But it does.

:kick:
J4Clark

[sfecap]

57. Gee...how sad.

Even when confronted with data proving otherwise, you continue to make false assertions.

I'll bet that the General would acknowledge his mistake and move on with a certain amount of dignity intact.

BTW...you are getting a bit personal here. Be careful or another one of your vitriolic posts will get removed.

[JVS]

60. Come back tomorrow with the list of all presidents and their

military units. Then you will have proven your point.

[JVS]

61. Are you a bigot, you seem intent on showing military service as ..

pre-requisite for being a president. That too is bigotry.

[Aristus]

14. John Adams. Did not serve in uniform. And neither did:

Thomas Jefferson.
James Madison.
James Monroe.
John Quincy Adams.
Martin Van Buren.
Millard Fillmore.
James Buchanan.
Andrew Johnson.
Chester A. Arthur.
William H. Taft.
Woodrow Wilson.
Calvin Coolidge.
Warren Harding.
Herbert Hoover.
Franklin D. Roosevelt.

And that's just off the top of my head. Want proof? Look up their bios.

[Dookus]

21. OK...

John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
John Q. Adams
Martin Van Buren
James K. Polk
Franklin Pierce
Grover Cleveland
William H. Taft
Woodrow Wilson
Warren G. Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover
Franklin Delano Roosevelt

[VoteClark]

42. Pierce was in the Mexican War

His commanding General was Winfield Scott
FDR was Secretary of the Navy
John Adams and Jefferson served in the British Army
Have to do somemore research on the others. But I know at least two of them served in the State Militia, which doesn't count as US Service

:kick:
J4Clark

[JVS]

22. A reading of an online Hoover biography shows no military service

[TheDonkey]

3. Disagree!

I think General Clark's huge asset is the General title.

But to say that someone doesn't like him because he is a General is like racism, or sexism is a bit over the top. Being a General is his occupation. Just like if someone would not like to see a porn star, trial lawyer, or big tobacco CEO in office they are against the occupation a chosen path. Not to say Porn star= General but the idea that you don't like someones job is not I don't like women.

[roughsatori]

6. You're comparing a job title to race and gender

Not logical at all. But I have nothing against anyone in the military. My Father and brother have been in the military and so is the person I am now dating.

If anyone said they would never vote for a military person that is there right. I think very few members actually think that--and that is their right.

My problem with Clark is I always thought he was a republican. Even his supporters did not seem sure for a while there what his party was.

[VoteClark]

10. A pro-gay, pro-abortion, pro-affirmative action Republican?

Humm, seems unlikely, very unlikely. I know many Republicans that like him. But I don't know of many that think he is a Republican. And I have talked to enough of the Draft Wesley Clark members to know they don't think that.

:kick:
J4Clark

[sfecap]

19. Then what is his party?

And why won't he simply state it?

Why the big secret?

[Dookus]

24. so

where's the "mea culpa" about all presidents serving in the military?

You were awfully smug about your "knowledge".

[comsymp]

27. Also, the last time a war started under a President/General

VietNam. Started under Eisenhower, ramped up under Kennedy and then Johnson totally screwed the pooch.

[Julien Sorel]

51. Started under Truman.

[comsymp]

54. Truman sent, like, 30 "advisors", true.

But direct US assistance, training by "advisors" began in '54-55, after Dien Bien Phu.

1955 January - United States begins direct assistance to the government of Vietnam
1955 February - U.S. military advisors start training South Vietnamese military
http://mil.citrus.cc.ca.us/cat2courses/HIST155/Briefings/BRIEF3.HTM

http://mil.citrus.cc.ca.us/cat2courses/HIST155/BigtimelineVWar.htm
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/mission.htm
http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/swensson/vnhist.html

[roughsatori]

29. so you know his party affiliation?

then why don't you tell him! (It is "pro-choice." "Pro-abortion" is what Freepers call it.)

[JVS]

31. Apologize for your lie!

[VermontDem2004]

58. I know, maybe that is why Arnold is a democrat?

wait a minute, he's a republican!!!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. I'm bigoted against plumbers, especially if they have that crack problem..

[Dob Bole]

36. Ah, si...

Clinton was probably the closest we've had to a plumber president.

[Terwilliger]

38. Yes

Those military participating in the current conflict in the nation of Iraq are participants in an illegal war, and are, therefore, subject to war crimes.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

56. A voice in the wilderness..

I grow weary of the pervasive anti-military mindset I'm picking up from some. I'm glad someone pointed out that being a soldier doesn't make you any less Presidential.