Is there really such a group called Al Qaeda?

[mopaul]

many speculate that there is no such organization as al qaeda, maybe there once was, but now it's all fractured into different factions and it's more of a generic label, covering all anti american terrorists. we know that there are white christian terrorists too, living among us, like they say al qaeda is.

if there really was an al qaeda, it was trained by the c.i.a. a c.i.a. creation, under reagan/bush. the bin laden faction was personally trained by daddybush's c.i.a. buddies in afghanistan decades ago. and now every terrorist in the world is an official member of this shadowy group.

why do they keep saying that all the terrorists in the world are now converging in iraq to take on the u.s.? that's ridiculous at it's face, 'iraq is the central gathering place for al qaeda'. what the fuck? i thought they wanted to attack us on our own soil, why would they go fight our army in iraq? it makes no sense.

even if they captured the infamous bin laden, who supposedly attacked us on 9-11 and before, the shadowy mysterious al qaeda WOULD STILL EXIST and cause mischief and mayhem for years to come.
anywhere terror pops up, uncle sam will say, 'see, al qaeda'

i'm beginning to believe that there really is no such thing as a band of renagades, ragtag, guerillas scrambling around the world, bringing democracy to it's knees. they are merely another symbol, another photo op, another propaganda tool to keep us in constant fear, and looking to a leader to save us. we are all being played for idiots, and why not? there is no one to stop the madmen. no one will step forward and say, 'basta', enough. as long as our inactions continue, the insanity continues.

those hooded men in the berg beheading video? bush says they are members of al qaeda. how does he know that? there are hoods on their heads. how do we know it's not u.s. soldiers, dressed up like the mysterious al qaeda? how do we know that al qaeda isn't an old west version of cowboys, dressing up like indians and slaughtering settlers in a bid to start a backlash against the indians. slaughter a few settlers, blame the indians, manifest destiny.

[stellanoir]

1. It's a total boggart. . .

see Harry Potter for reference. . .

"an illusive manifestation of your deepest fears."

random deduction: resulting from our collective deep seated guilt for living in relative opulence while most of the world toils away in desolate poverty. They are in our shadow, and many firmly believe that we are bigger than they.

Hmmmmm. . .not so sure about that.

[moof]

2. What mopaul said, moof will bet life and limb on it.

If the America wants to live free of the fear of terrorism then America should stop training and funding anyone except Americans.

If America wishes to live free of the fear of WMDs then America should get rid of all America's WMDs.

If America wants to live in Peace then America should stop killing people and starting wars.

Peace is easy you simply refuse to be violent.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

16. moof smart.

[teryang]

3. "cowboys, dressing up like indians..."

Al qaeda is a myth.

It is a modern permutation with several aspects, including creating an enemy to develope support for an unpopular government/dictatorship, creating an attack or perception of attack to justify offensive wars, carrying out terror bombing attacks on your own people to win popular support and discredit political opponents.

[jpgray]

4. There probably is or was, yes

But is it the leviathan, ultimate terrorizing boogeyman/scapegoat the administration would have us believe? I don't think so--the evidence on Al Qaeda's vastness, its conncetion to 9/11 etc. has rarely been presented, and when it has it doesn't seem to give a complete picture.

[oblivious]

5. Ah, thank you. Finally someone willing to come out and say it.

I'm so sick of this propaganda, which is why I include two of Goebells' principles of propaganda in my signature. Has there been even one conviction of an al-Queda evil-doer since 911?

Islamist lawyer in Egypt pronounces al-Qaeda "dead"

"The Americans persist in saying al-Qaeda is still around to justify their so-called war on terrorism, but I think al-Qaeda is dead," said Islamist lawyer, Montasser el-Zayat, in an interview with AFP.

Zayat, who claims he has e-mail contact with the network's number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, said the group was destroyed during the war in Afghanistan following the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States.


http://sg.search.news.yahoo.com/search/news_sg_pf?p=ukey%3A5745134

[oblivious]

9. While I'm on the topic, here's a few links.

Debunk The Myth of Al Qaeda
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0523/p11s02-coop.html

The Al Qaeda Hoax
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/DK22Aa01.html

Historian R T Naylor
...That is because Al Queda itself does not exist, except in the fevered imaginations of neo-cons and Likudniks, some of whom, I suspect, also know it is a myth, but find it extremely useful as a bogeyman to spook the public and the politicians to acquiesce in otherwise unacceptable policy initiatives at home and abroad.
http://www.counterpunch.org/schaefer06212003.html

al-Queda in Britain, not Afghanistan?
Documents compiled in Madrid, Milan, Paris and Hamburg and seen by the Guardian indicate that most of the known attacks planned or executed by al-Qaida in the past four years had links to Britain. Investigating magistrates, police and intelligence officers in those cities believe that Islamist spiritual leaders based in Britain played a key role in the indoctrination and possibly even the authorisation of terrorist operations. Given the unique nature of Bin Laden's movement, they may have played an even more crucial role than al-Qaida's operational commanders.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,649744,00.html

FBI: Moussaoui not involved
Washington - The US Federal Bureau of Investigation has concluded that Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged in America in connection with the September 11 attacks, was not involved in the strikes, Time magazine reported on Sunday.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1432629,00.html

Mo Paul's hypothesis
...some observers believe Al-Qaida is little more than an idea connecting the largely independent actions of a loose network of organisations and individuals. Peter Marsden traces the history of Al-Qaida and concludes that while the global organisation of popular belief does not exist, the US-led ?war on terror? may be the catalyst that turns the myth of Al-Qaida into reality.
http://www.bond.org.uk/networker/july03/opinion.htm

Al-Qaeda is not a traditional terrorist organisation. It does not have a clear hierarchy, military mindset and centralised command. At best, Al-Qaeda is a network of affiliated groups sharing religious and ideological backgrounds, but which often interact sparingly. Al-Qaeda is a state of mind, as much as an organisation; it encompasses a wide range of members and followers who can differ dramatically from each other.--Dr Andrew Silke, "Profiling terror," Janes, August 7, 2003]
http://www.janes.com/security/law_enforcement/news/pr/pr030807_1_n.shtml

Al-Qaeda in Gaza?

Mossad Exposed In Phony 'Palestinian Al Qaeda' Caper
The United States government has been provided with concrete evidence that the Israeli Mossad and other Israeli intelligence services have been involved in a 13-month effort to "recruit" an Israeli-run, phony "al Qaeda cell" among Palestinians, so that Israel could achieve a frontline position in the U.S. war against terrorism and get a green light for a worldwide "revenge without borders" policy.
http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=5156

Al-Qaeda terra in the Philippines?
Lots of links on Liberty forum - ABS, Financial Times, Manila Times,etc

DAVAO CITY - Civil society leaders here expressed alarm over the alleged intrusion by Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agents in cases being investigated by Davao City and Gen. Santos City police.

A leader of a cause-oriented organization yesterday challenged police officials to investigate an incident wherein FBI agents took out of the hospital an American, previously reported as a Briton, who almost lost his life when an explosion rocked his hotel room two weeks ago.

FBI agents also grilled last week the alleged bomber in Gen. Santos City whom they suspect to have links with the al Qaeda terror group.

THE WHITE HOUSE RESCUES A TERRORIST.
What is unusual about the case, The Manila Times reported, is that Meiring was: whisked out of Davao, past the Philippine National Police guarding him at the hospital, and on to a chartered plane, accompanied by what Immigration officials described as agents of the US National Security Agency and agents of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation.

The National Security Agency intervention, confirmed by Immigration Deputy Commissioner Daniel Queto, sparked intense local speculation as to why an agency that reports directly to the Office of the President of the United States would send an entourage of bodyguards to speed Meiring to a hospital in Manila.

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_miscellaneous&Number=803036&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21%E2%88%82=

Al-Qaeda in Iraq? Well that one's been proved a hoax over and over

Al-Qaeda in Spain? US intelligence proved that was fake

It's time for the intelligence community in all of our countries to come clean on this conspiracy theory. With all the evidence proving al-Qaeda has been hyped beyond all reason, why do governments and the media keep on promoting it? What the hell's going on?

[sweetness]

52. Great links!

I even have the time to read them...Thanks.

[radwriter0555]

56. FBI: Just 200 hard-core Al-Qaeda (Your smoking gun)

(I saved this story from 2 years ago, I doubt the link works, but saved it, text and all, in its entirety.)

http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/saturday/news_d324f12b6139910500ad.html


By Rebecca Carr, Palm Beach Post Washington Bureau
Saturday, July 27, 2002

WASHINGTON -- Senior FBI officials believe there are now no more than 200 hard-core Al-Qaeda members worldwide.

"Al-Qaeda itself, we know, is less than 200," said an FBI official, referring to those who have sworn allegiance to Osama bin Laden, the alleged mastermind behind the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

That figure -- far fewer than recent press reports have suggested are in the U. S. alone -- is based on evidence gathered by the FBI and CIA. It includes Al-Qaeda members who are now in custody at Guantanamo Bay.

"Everyone tries to tie everything into 9-11 and Al-Qaeda," said one of the two FBI officials interviewed Friday on condition of anonymity. "There was a recent report suggesting that Al-Qaeda is about 5,000 strong. It is nowhere near 5,000 strong."

Although thousands of Islamic extremists and future terrorists have passed through bin Laden's training camps, it does not mean they are actual Al-Qaeda operatives, the officials said.

The war in Afghanistan has dispersed, killed or captured Al-Qaeda leaders, leaving the terror network fractured and diffused.

As a result, the FBI's counterterrorism division is closely examining Iranian-backed Hezbollah and other radical Shiite Islamic groups. These groups have men, money and safe havens to elude authorities and could strengthen Al-Qaeda.

"Now we are concerned that he (bin Laden) might be reaching out to the Shia side, which we have never seen before," a senior FBI official said. "We are concerned they might start focusing on trying to utilize each other's support networks."

Sunni and Shia Muslims have long been rivals. Historically, an ideological division between the two branches has kept Al-Qaeda and Shiite groups such as Hezbollah from combining resources.

The FBI has launched a new International Terrorism Operations Center within the counterterrorism division in an effort to keep better track of terror groups outside of Al-Qaeda.

"If we don't keep our focus on Hezbollah, Iran, Iraq, Hamas, the Shia side of the house, we are putting ourselves in a very deep hole because if they decide to join the fray with Al-Qaeda, with the Sunni side, Sunni extremists, this country is in very serious trouble," the senior FBI official said.

Although Al-Qaeda's forces have been reduced, the FBI is concerned that there are still a number of mid-level followers who could strike at the United States.

"There are people out there at mid-level that have come up in previous terrorist acts that we are focusing on that are the operators that could still conduct various terrorist attacks in the United States," one official said.

Some of these mid-level operators concern the FBI more than others. Some planned the 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Some planned the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000. Some planned the Sept. 11 attacks.

"We believe there is a functional arm out there that we're still extremely concerned about that we are aggressively with the agency (CIA) going after," the official said.

Asked about recent comments of another FBI official suggesting that bin Laden might be dead, the officials said there is information that would substantiate that claim.

"There is some information out there that somebody could take a look at and come up with a theory that he might be dead," one official said.

For example, U.S. forces have captured members of bin Laden's senior security detail. If bin Laden were alive, wouldn't his security detail be by his side?

If bin Laden is alive, why has he not made an appearance or produced another videotape, an official asked. The tapes that have been released so far are dated before the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan.

"It's curious that you would think that he would want to demonstrate to us all worldwide that he was still in charge, still alive," the official said.

The FBI officials also said the bureau has created a plan to "substantially enhance our ability to detect, investigate and prevent terrorist attacks."

The plan, which was revealed to members of the House and Senate intelligence committees in a closed-door session on Thursday, calls for dramatically improving the bureau's analytical capabilities.

The goal is to ensure that FBI information on terrorist threats rapidly moves from the bureau's 56 field offices to the counterterrorism division at headquarters in Washington.

A new group of FBI "report officers" will take raw intelligence and information from the field and put it into a format that can be sent to local, state and federal agencies trying to prevent the next terrorist attack.

A senior CIA official is training FBI agents to create these reports.


[e-mail]

[swinney]

69. 200 Hard Core per FBI

Washington Bureau of Palm Beach Post had an article last year in which it said a high ranking FBI leader said there were no more than 200 Hard Core Al Q world wide.

[H2O Man]

6. I believe it exists.....

....but it does not follow that I believe this administration's definitions of what it is, where it is, or why it is.

[Jim Warren]

7. Used to be

Now they've got a car dealership in Arlington, Va., Al Cadilac

[klyon]

14. is that used cars?

KL

[stickdog]

36. Nope. That guy's 100% American capitalist ...

Al Coholic.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

64. Letterman:

They show up every 17 years. Al-cicada.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. The US has never seriously looked at the roots of terrorism

and has certainly never addressed them. But a quick look around the Internet and one can get a sense of why so much of the rest of the world resents us. It isn't so much envy for what we have as exasperation over what we do. We take from other countries so that we have products at cheap prices. In order to do this, we support dictatorships and repressive commercial practices that keep workers almost at a slave level in regards to wages, working conditions, and benefits. What we export is an impression of the US as an immoral country, out to mold the rest of the world in our image, even if this means trampling on and destroying other cultures (hey, that's what we did to the mirad Native American cultures). Finally, we plant the seeds of rampant materialism-the reason this is bad is that it makes others resentful of the fact that they can't get the things we have-and leaders of other nations, especially spiritual leaders, see the threat to spiritual values if materialism is embraced.

Anyway, the majority of Americans have no clue about this. They don't know a foreign language, and probably have no clue about the living conditions of people in Third World countries. The sad thing is, many don't care. And that's the root of the problem.

[libhill]

42. But strangely enough -

we`ve been down this road before. If people would look at the history of our occupation of the Phillipines after the Spanish American War, it`s not unlike what`s happening in Iraq right now. We took the Phillipines from the "evil repressive" Spaniards in order to "free the people", then turned the islands into a colony. When the Phillipinos had the audacity to to realize that they had been had, they "revolted" and a long and bloody suppression began, that lasted from about 1899 to 1902. And even after that, the occupation wasn`t solidified until after a long struggle against the Muslim Moro tribes,who were egged on by their Sultans and spiritual leaders,who hated our guts. Any of that sound vaguely familiar? And for the record, the Moro Wars dragged on until 1913.

[mopaul]

48. I forget how many moros indians died but it was almost all of them

under teddy roosevelt? more manifest destiny

[libhill]

74. yuppers

The Moro Wars began under Roosevelt, after he declared an end to the Phillipine Insurrection. More deja vu, all over again. And it was Roosevelt who, later in his life, admitted that the occupation had been a mistake, because the Phillipines were too far from the U.S. to be easily defended if attacked by Japan. Strangely prophetic, actually.

[MikeG]

10. Sure. I've seen all their videos. They need to lose the beards.

The 60's are over, dudes.

[playahata1]

11. Same here.

From the beginning, I have never thought of AlQ as being anything but a figment of somebody's twisted imagination.

[Vitruvius]

12. The CIA helped set up Al Qaeda back in the '80s to terrorize the Soviets

occupying Afghanistan.

Whether Al Qaeda is still a CIA or BFEE front is anybody's guess.
The question to ask is: "Qui bono?" = "Who benefits?".
And the BFEE benefited mightily from 9/11 and benefits mightily from their continued terror alerts and the climate of fear.

[tinanator]

13. Im your boogie man, that's what I am

do a little dance, make a little war, get down tonight

[Nlighten1]

15. Al Qaeda exists ONLY in the minds of the people who...

are wanting to fight "The War on Terra". It is their tool for eroding our freedoms.

[Dont Hurt Me]

17. Some of you

are messed up, to say their was never an al-qaeda and someone made it up is ludicrous. What shape it's in now? who knows. Probably fairly f-ed up. I don't think they expected the response they got after 9/11.

"bin laden, who supposedly attacked us on 9-11 and before" Bin laden is a shit bag he has all but claimed resposibility for 9/11 and nobody can justify his actions. I hope he burns in hell after a painfull death.

I do agree that the al-qaeda label is overused and has now probably become more of a generic terrorist term.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

21. So you're the guy

who has the indisputable proof that al-kada did 9/11? Please share this revelation.

[Dont Hurt Me]

25. To deny

Al-qaeda's involvment is to break out the tin foil. Almost everyone agrees that it was bin laden and all evidence points toward him. Please don't let your hatred for bush or the Iraq war effect your views of bin laden. He needs to die.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

26. Where is this proof you speak of?

Please, show me the way, don't let my "hatred" get the best of me. The only proof that exists is proof of a coverup.

[NNN0LHI]

58. The posters proof is Chimpy told him so. And Chimpy would never lie

:think:

[libhill]

38. Uh Huh

Quickly gathered evidence, too - funny that the Bushies and intelligence agencies claimed at the time, that they were completely taken by surprise, never saw 9/11 coming. But within a few hours of the attacks, the names and faces of the alleged terrorists were all over the networks. Amazing how fast they pulled it all together, ain`t it? I`m impressed -not.

[qwertyMike]

60. I often wondered about that

The photos and names of ALL the hijackers seened to be available within hours of the attack.
If they had this intelligence . . . . . ?????

[HFishbine]

50. Haven't we learned a lesson about "Almost everyone agrees..."

If this simple test were an arbiter of the truth, we'd have found tons of WMD in Iraq. No?

[spanone]

61. Bin Laden??? No trial, no evidence, no proof. Innocent until.......

[radwriter0555]

55. Even the FBI has said that they've found no proof that AQ perped 9.11, AND

they have yet to officially link OBL to 9.11.

With that said, who were these guys?

Why did they take a payment of 100K a month before the deed, if they were going to die?

[Djinn]

29. mmm

"I don't think they expected the response they got after 9/11...

bin laden, who supposedly attacked us on 9-11 and before Bin laden is a shit bag he has all but claimed resposibility for 9/11 and nobody can justify his actions."

If it was Al Qaeda that carried out the attacks on the Pentagon and WTC - and although I never beleived that video purporting to be Bin Laden taking credit for it, as it CLEARLY wasn't Bin Laden, I'm not saying they didn't do it just that the "confession" was a crock - then the response they got would have been exactly what they expected, the people alledged to have been involved were educated people do you really think that a massive and violent response wasn't what was expected even desired?

[Straight Shooter]

18. Existence of al-Qaeda keeps our fears focused outside our borders

"we know that there are white christian terrorists too, living among us, like they say al qaeda is."

That certainly raises an interesting point. Just a few short years ago, we were overwhelmed with violence issues within the U.S. borders. Ruby Ridge wasn't very long ago, the Oklahoma bombing, children bringing guns to school to slaughter their classmates, people "going postal" at work, bombings of abortion clinics and murders of those who work at such clinics, on and on and on. All these issues were prominent in news headlines on a constant basis, it seemed.

Now, with everyone's fears focused on al-Qaeda, we aren't scrutinizing what's happening here at home, where we are much more likely to be killed by a drunk driver or someone we know who has access to a gun or even by the wrong prescription drug. Suddenly we are supposed to feel "safe" at home and that "safety" is being threatened by an elusive shadowy organization of people who "hate us for our freedoms." :eyes:

We are quite possibly being duped to avoid correcting the real problems within our borders. These problems require introspection and honest assessment, but instead we are misdirected and told to focus all our attention on an amorphous enemy that is constantly shifting its form and its locale. They are everywhere and yet they are never truly identified. al-Qaeda has become an all-encompassing, generic term for the terrorist-at-large. And as long as al-Qaeda "exists," we will not concentrate on saving and improving lives in the United States or elsewhere in the world.

Smooth move, bush administration. Smooth, slick, and greasy.

[libhill]

41. Agreed, but still -

they had to have someone to replace the Soviet/Communist booger man. Keep those cards and letters (and tax payer dollars) coming in to the military industrial complex, folks!

[OneBlueSky]

19. I think it's more a state of mind that any number of groups . . .

and individuals can claim to be associated with . . . kinda like "Christian evangelical," which encompasses a multitude of sins and sinners . . .

[teryang]

20. Global research has a good article

...posted recently on the creation of al qaeda by the US, its sponsorship by Pakistan, SA, and the CIA. The relationship of the US to the "al qaeda" is documented until Aug. 2001, and circumstantial evidence of the continuation of that relationship is discussed in detail.

www.globalresearch.ca

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. Isn't globalresearch...

one of the groups that claims that Milosevic is just a nice, misunderstood guy?

[stickdog]

37. You are so obvious.

Thanks!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

44. Eh?

Indeed. What are you trying to say? "Obvious" in what respect? Do you deny that:

A) Globalresearch supports the position that Solobodan Milosevic is not actually guilty of genocide (A position for which, I might add, most eastern european historians have no respect) and publishes/links articles to that effect.

Or do you believe that:
B) This is not relevant.

Personally, I do think it's relevant. As far as I'm concerned, they're defending the indefenisible.

I might add that they also make the hilarious assertion that Bill Clinton was a big supporter of Al Qaeda.

So, might I ask exactly what you're trying to say? I am asserting that globalresearch is a questionable source, based on material which is both historically inaccurate and ridiculously biased. What are you trying to say?

[stickdog]

66. So because Globalresearch is suspicious of

US interventionism under Clinton as well as Bush, that discredits Chossudovsky as a legitimate 9/11 skeptic?

Is that your argument?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

73. not particularly

No. My argument isn't about suspicion. My argument is that they fail to differentiate between facts, unestablished "facts," and their own opinion in any reasonably consistent way.

[Astarho]

22. Does make you wonder

Why didn't al-CIAda destroy us (or at least inflict mucc more damage on us) when they had the chance. Could imagine what would have happened and how people would have acted in the days and weeks after 911 if there had been a restaurant bombing in say Chicago or Seattle and maybe a few car bombings in Florida or California?

Instead they seemed to be content with a huge attack every few years rather than constant small attacks. Also they seem to show up when Bush is in trouble.

[libhill]

43. Well-

that could possibly be the whole idea?

[JCMach1]

23. the Jihadists were created by the CIA in the 1980's

to fight the Soviets... after the war, they had nowhere to go... dead enders.

Many ended up in losely affiliated groups waiting for the next Jihad. bin Laden and others provided the motivation and philosophy.

Now, they are even more widely scattered... some still exist in organized cells.

a couple of points

1. Don't mistake the Saudi resistance for al Quaeda... that's what the Saudis want everyone to think...

2. Don't mistake 'newbie' jihadists for al Quaeda... the new guys are Bush's creation in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere... they feed on the war and hatred he has caused.

3. Don't mistake terrorism for something new... the anarchists of the late 19th century could best be described as terrorists.

4. Never forget one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Israelis used terrorism in their independence drive from Britain (for example).

5. 9/11 was CLASSIC symbolic terrorism... Not since the murder of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was their such an important act that symbolically changed the course and mindset of the world.


in short... al Quaeda is real, but it's not what you think... or even what they are saying...

[NecessaryOnslaught]

24. "This was an idea that had literally never occurred to him."

But she refused to believe that widespread, organized opposition existed or could exist. The tales about Goldstein and his underground army,she said, were simply a lot of rubbish which the Party had invented for its own purposes and which you had to pretend to believe in.....

In some ways she was far more acute than Winston, and far less susceptible to Party propaganda. Once when he happened in some connexion to mention the war against Eurasia, she startled him by saying casually that in her opinion the war was not happening. The rocket bombs which fell daily on London were probably fired by the Government of Oceania itself, ’just to keep people frightened’. This was an idea that had literally never occurred to him.

[oblivious]

27. Yes, so orwellian. And throw in a bit of Hans Christian Anderson

The emperor marched in the procession under the beautiful canopy, and all who saw him in the street and out of the windows exclaimed: "Indeed, the emperor's new suit is incomparable! What a long train he has! How well it fits him!" Nobody wished to let others know he saw nothing, for then he would have been unfit for his office or too stupid. Never emperor's clothes were more admired.

"But he has nothing on at all," said Mo Paul at last. "Good heavens! listen to the voice of an innocent child," said the religious right, and one whispered to the other what Mo Paul had said. "But he has nothing on at all," cried at last all of the Republican voters. That made a deep impression upon the emperor, for it seemed to him that they were right; but he thought to himself, "Now I must bear up to the end." And the neocons walked with still greater dignity, as if they carried the train which did not exist.

[oblivious]

28. See the original in Gutenberg.

http://www.gutenberg.net/etext99/hcaft10.txt

[mopaul]

46. Ach! du lieber Augustin!....i've never read the original, thanks..n/t

[Mike Niendorff]

30. well, that's what we're told.

but, whether it exists or not, I still worry somewhat less about Al Queda than I do about Al Abama.


MDN

[Jose Diablo]

31. Another enemy manufactured by the MIC

Just like the cold war.

Will we never be rid of the effects of WWII.

[sallydallas124]

32. You mean to tell me

those guys jumping over jungle gyms in their sandles in sepia colored, slow-mo videos might not be al queda? That they aren't plotting our destruction on super computers in caves in Afghanistan?

There are clearly terrorists doing bad things out there but are they part of this single & isolated group known as al-queda? No way.
I think about how much money is required to do what they do. Sibel Edmonds has talked about how we would be surprised to learn where some of the money which supports terrorism is coming from. That we would see our own politicians prosecuted as criminals. Several books touch on this as well - the complex webbing of governments, money laundering, and terrorism. Funny how al queda's actions always seem to benefit bush in some way.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. Richard Clarke says there is a group called Al Qaeda and

it took him and his staff years to convince the FBI and CIA to believe they existed. Yes, if Richard Clarke says they exist, I believe him. However, I don't think every terrorist in the world is Al Qaeda. The hooded men in the Berg video looked suspicious. Their "stance" looked like a U.S. military stance to me. They also looked too well fed. Too heathy.

[mopaul]

47. good points

i would believe him over bush any day. but when bush says that iraq is 'the central front in the war on terror', it's just silly. all of al qaeda goes to iraq to fight us? i doubt it, i think they'd bring the fight right to our front door again, not invite us to fight in iraq.

[in_cog_ni_to]

67. I agree.

They want to destroy the U.S. and everything we stand for. Why would they do that in Iraq? Doesn't make sense. However, that is exactly what the chimp wants everyone to believe. The terrorists in Iraq are just terrorists.....from their own organized groups...not Al Qaeda. OR they are citizens defending the take over of their country by The World Power, The United States of America? :shrug:

[NecessaryOnslaught]

72. Richard Clarke was also fired for allowing Israel..

to sell American arms to China.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x10860

[stickdog]

35. Yes and no.

"Al Qaeda" is a vitally necessary Western mil/intel construct.

The problem with the "terrorist enemy" replacing the USSR was that existing terrorist groups were way too small-time. Furthermore, they were always bragging about pulling off the tiniest acts of terror imaginable in their vain efforts to draw attention to themselves and their causes. Quite simply put, it was hard to take them seriously.

What we needed was a worthy adversary with scary destructive capabilities who wasn't concerned with the kind of publicity that would generate more and more actual terrorism.

"Al Qaeda" stands for "any terrorist or terrorist-like act sophisticated and deadly enough that Western mil/intel assets would otherwise be the primary suspects."

[Liberal Classic]

39. No you're wrong.

They're really Mossad. Sarcasm. :\

[not systems]

40. I think it is a mental construct.

Designed for framing and mental control.

The construct of the enemy who can't be measured,
verified or proved to exist provides unlimited cover
for embezzlement and authoritarian rule.

[robbedvoter]

45. John O'Neil seemed to have thought so and paid for it. Richard Clarke

and Clinton dealt with them. Not every enemy of W is our friend. They endorsed W BTW:


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/print/CTVNews/1079609768527_2/
?h...
snip> The statement tells American voters that Abu Hafs al-Masri
supports the re-election campaign of U.S. President George W. Bush: "We
are very keen that Bush does not lose the upcoming elections."
Addressing Bush, it says: "We know that a heavyweight operation would
destroy your government, and this is what we don't want. We are not
going to find a bigger idiot than you."
The statement said Abu Hafs al-Masri needs what it called Bush's
"idiocy and religious fanaticism" because they would "wake up" the
Islamic world.
Comparing Bush with his Democratic party challenger, John Kerry, the
statement tells the president: "Actually, there is no difference
between you and Kerry, but Kerry will kill our community, while it is
unaware, because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish
infidelity and present it to the Arab and Islamic community as
civilization."

[oblivious]

49. Be careful attributing anything to this group Abu Hafs al-Masri

That's what Ashcroft and Mueller tried to do in their terror alert last week. It looks like they're fake though. FBI experts said that in March, which makes Mueller look pretty bad pretending they're real now.

A senior U.S. intelligence official previously told NBC News that this group has no known operational capability and may be no more than one man with a fax machine.

'To give this group any type of credibility is reckless,' said terrorism expert and NBC analyst Steve Emerson, 'because it simply doesn't represent anything but one person claiming credit for attacks that has no control or not connected to, but simply trying to jump on the publicity bandwagon.'

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5087301/
But specialists say there is no evidence the organization exists. E-mail messages purporting to be written by the group previously claimed responsibility for everything from the North American blackout to a suicide attack that killed 20 Italian policemen in Iraq. But none of those claims has proved true, intelligence specialists say.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/13/officials_group_tying_self_to_blasts_may_not_be_real/

[robbedvoter]

51. But Al Quaeda itself doesn't exist - according to this thread

So, if 911 happened, that the W endorsement also did.
I have no reason to believe your sources anymore than mine. Each and every one of them has lied at one point. So "intelligence specialist" these days is an oxymoron.

[oblivious]

54. True. (eom)

[PATRICK]

53. the actual groupings

and their affiliates are warily rebuilding, being very choosy about their many applicants so as not to get infiltrated. They might make matters worse by simply handing out "franchises" to young amateurs, but even this compartmentalized outfit does not like to relinquish control.

Other terrorist groups happy to borrow the fabled mantle are not connected in organization or tactics, making matters all the worse. Even in the hotbeds of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan there are other anti-government agendas and larger groups at work, again imitating the franchise.

It must be small motley group indeed to be in Iraq as foreigners trying to muddle the situation where the resistance probably sees things differently and distrusts them. Large operation outside their homelands must be very difficult. Amateurs will have a hard time too, even if less predictable. The 911 cells have been set back. A mess both precludes and masks new major attacks. Thanks to Bush, it is a conveniently confusing
unattended mess, the homelands of the terrorists mostly untouched.

Keeping the Muslim world roiled and destabilized is keeping the whole thing very much alive even if it IS disorganized for now. Nor have they gone after the money backing enough at all.

[tinanator]

57. once CIA

always CIA

[Minstrel Boy]

59. It's every bit as real as its affiliate, the Carlyle Group.

It's an agent provocateur advancing the interests of its financiers.

If we follow its narco-money trail back to the ISI, back to the oligarchs at Carlyle and Jonathan Bush's Riggs Bank and Buzzy Krongard's Deutsche Bank, back to the billions made on insider trading before 9/11, we can learn whose interests al Qaeda serves.

[vetwife]

62. Why do we just see them on the jungle gym?

Did they just make one tape ? My husband and I have been questiong that little tid bit for some time. Mention that group and bingo you got the jungle gym. Hand over hand monkey bar training.

[harrison]

63. Well, thank you for having the guts to say it. I think we are being

scammed big time. Kick this.

[DoYouEverWonder]

65. Everybody has to grow up sooner or later

and just like waking up one day and finding out there really is no such thing as Santa Claus, despite the 1000's of people who dress up like him every year, there really is no such thing as al Qaeda, despite the fact, that there are now 1000's of radical Islamic terrorists, fighting in regional conflicts all around the world.

[AntiCoup2K4]

71. Great analogy

Even though Osama Bin Laden does (or at least did) exist, he and his supposed terra network have taken on a mythological status comparable to the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus, or the Tooth Fairy.

Well of course the Easter Bunny exists! I can prove it because he hid that basket of candy behind the couch.

Of course the tooth fairy is real. There's money under your pillow, isn't there?

You don't believe in Santa Claus? Then who left those presents under the tree? huh? huh?

Of course Al Qaeda flew airplanes into the World Trade Center! And even though the buildings are rubble and the planes are completely destroyed, we have a fully intact passport of one of the bastards right here to prove it.

How is the last bit of evidence any more real than the others?

Can you remember ever hearing the name "Al Qaeda" before 9-11-01? I can't. If this evil supergroup of terror was out there, shouldn't we have heard of them before that day.

The only thing we know for a fact is that the leader of this alleged organization comes from a wealthy Saudi family that has been friends and business partners of the Bush Criminal Empire since the 1970's. Poppy Bush himself brought Osama in to lead his CIA sponsored Afghan resistance to the Russians in the 80's. Whatever terrorist organization Bin Laden has directly evolved from that group.

One way or the other, all roads lead back to Bush. That's reality.

[Oddman]

68. al Qaeda is not just a terrorist group anymore

it is an ideology . . .

[9215]

70. Yes, but not as it's popularly percieved.

Who controls Al Qaeda is the larger fiction. IMO, they are operatives of the CIA--Saudi (maybe Mossad) intelligence apparatus.

Al Qaeda is Big Brother Bush's Emmanuel Goldstein.

[bywho4who]

75. Ya

CIA