Trying to kill all the terrorists is not the answer...There is another way

[glarius]

I have been thinking about something.....I don't know if it is practical or if others will agree with me, but it has been on my mind....I wonder why the American government doesn't make an effort to meet with and talk to the heads of the various Arab countries and try to discern WHY the U.S.A. is so hated that they have all these Muslim and Arab people willing to die in the cause of trying to destroy America....Why not try to have some sort of a summit meeting and talk about the problems and possible solutions? Doesn't it make sense to try to find out if there are solutions other than trying to hunt down and kill every "terrorist" on the planet? The dead ones are just replaced with new recruits....Perhaps John Kerry as president would try something in this vein...Or am I just a naive Canadian?

[Bronco69]

1. First of all

that plan makes WAY too much sense and is far too easy to impliment than just starting a war. See! That's the problem with you Canadians, you always want to do things the easy way! (sarcasm)

[Atman]

2. Bush won't even pick up the phone to call our allies!

Oh...do we have any allies left? Anyway, he won't pick up the phone to call them.



Anti-Bush Gear "TOO OFFENSIVE" for Google!

[glarius]

5. You do have allies left ...There is goodwill towards the American people

here in Canada (we do loath Bush, of course) and in the rest of the world too...We all know you are decent, good people...:)

[Greenbeard]

28. For Now

...but if the american people reelect Bush I am afraid that goodwill may begin to falter, and who could really blame anyone.

[wtmusic]

3. Far too obvious

But Canadians advised us to not get into this mess too...

Until the US takes a real interest in finding a solution to Israel/Palestine there is no hope.

[CulturalNomad]

8. Exactly, while reasonable people ask - why cant we try

and work through the root causes, American politicians cannot do that because it will inevitably lead to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. The US govt has tied itself so inextricably to Israel that the mere notion of even-handedness is laughable - no US politician can even begin to discuss this in a fair manner for fear of being labeled an anti-semite (the most hideous label in America now). The fact is that until Israel annexes the West Bank and Gaza (or at least cherry picks the best spots) it isnt going to be ready to discuss peace - and our govt is not interested in a 'just' solution until that happens.

[LeahMira]

15. The U.S. needs to stay neutral...

Until the US takes a real interest in finding a solution to Israel/Palestine there is no hope.

I disagree. I think the U.S. needs to keep out of that conflict... or at least remain neutral. If the Israelis and Plaestinians are interested in peace talks on neutral territory, of course the U.S. should offer them a comfortable and safe venue. If either nation has products to sell or wishes to buy products made in the U.S., of course those transactions should go forward. If the U.S. is handing out foreign aid money, of course both countries should receive a share... but a share that's as equal as we can make it. Certainly we should not be offering military hardware to either side.

There isn't going to be any solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict until both nations agree that a solution, of whatever sort, is preferable to the situation they have going on at the moment. One that's pushed or enforced by the U.S. is only going to cause resentments from one or both sides and is doomed to break down sooner or later. The Bush Road Map, for instance, is a recipe for disaster that will simply not work for anyone.

Individuals in the U.S., however, can certainly support the Palestinians and the Israelis who are interested in finding a solution by supporting those groups in the U.S. that are supporting peace. Americans for Peace Now, the Tikkun Community, and the Jewish Peace Lobby are some of these groups. They are organized mostly by Jewish people, but welcome anyone who is interested and supportive. I'd think that a google search would come up with some Palestinian groups working from the U.S. for peace also. As with any group, though, potential donors and supporters need to check out the group's credentials.

[wtmusic]

30. If you are assuming the US is neutral now

I would phrase that as 'the US needs to BECOME neutral'

[EstimatedProphet]

4. This administration wants them as enemies

They replace the big boogeyman Soviet Union, which replaced Nazi Germany. The military/industrial complex needs a bad guy to drive its economy, otherwise people will start to wake up and ask why we need nuclear weapons to fight individuals.
Be afraid of the evildoers! Buy our guns so that you can be secure!

[LeahMira]

20. I think you're right...

They replace the big boogeyman Soviet Union, which replaced Nazi Germany. The military/industrial complex needs a bad guy to drive its economy, otherwise people will start to wake up and ask why we need nuclear weapons to fight individuals.

Just yesterday, I was mentally listing all the wars that I've lived through. I was born during the Second World War, but I suppose that doesn't really count because I was a baby then. But I do remember the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and now the War in Iraq... plus countless skirmishes in places like Nicaragua, Panama, Haiti, Grenada, Bosnia, Kosovo, and the list goes on.

What struck me was that neither the U.S. nor the countries involved has ever come out ahead as a result of these wars. The U.S. is no safer or more secure, and the other nations involved are often much worse off. They obviously have a huge task of rebuilding as their first chore, and they don't seem any more free or democratic or prosperous than they would have been had this country just left them alone.

The only conclusion I can see is the same conclusion you came to... that this country needs some enemy "out there" to unite against and to keep the military-related industries going. If this is a correct conclusion, and if this paradigm has been in place and operating for as long as my lifetime (which, somewhat shockingly, at least to me, represents about a quarter of the time that this nation has been in existence!), then I think it will probably take some major event to shift that paradigm away from what Richard Slotkin calls "regeneration through violence."

Each of us, I think, evaluates his or her life and its value by considering whether or not we are better, kinder, wiser individuals than we were ten or twenty or so years ago. Certainly there's a consideration, in that mix, of how well we are doing financially or career-wise but, at least for me, those considerations are not so important as the more personal growth sorts of measures.

Maybe we need to have a different evaluation measure for our nation... a new bottom line. In addition to considering how much we have accumulated in terms of money and power as a nation, we also need to consider how much we have contributed to the rest of the world. For the cost of one day in Iraq, we could feed the world. For the cost of one day in Iraq, we could eliminate the "simple" diseases, like leprosy, dysentery, and malaria, that plague so many of the world's people.

I think that if we were interested in doing these sorts of things there's a good chance that we wouldn't need to be concerned with terrorists. After all, who on earth would want to kill such a golden goose?

[EstimatedProphet]

25. I agree in principle, but it won't work in practice...

"Maybe we need to have a different evaluation measure for our nation... a new bottom line. In addition to considering how much we have accumulated in terms of money and power as a nation, we also need to consider how much we have contributed to the rest of the world. For the cost of one day in Iraq, we could feed the world. For the cost of one day in Iraq, we could eliminate the "simple" diseases, like leprosy, dysentery, and malaria, that plague so many of the world's people."

I'm a fishery biologist by trade. There's always been one problem with my field-there's no money in it. Why isn't there any money in it? Because there's no industry in it.
The US has an amazing amount of econimic power and influence around the globe. However, the reason that we have been able to get this power and influence is because of the military and industry. Strong military/industrial complex=greater profits=bigger military/industrial complex. We could put our money into feeding the world, but industry would never do that because there's no economic return, other than having more grateful consumers. We are in Iraq because, and SOLELY because, industry wants a profit from it.
I would love to see the US work towards a day when betterment of mankind is our primary goal. We will NEVER do it under our economic paradigm, because the only way to be successful in this economy is to make money. And making money turns out to be diametrically opposed to betterment of mankind, since the easiest (therefore highest return for invested time) way to make money is to prey on people's emotions. Scare people, or play to their lusts, or stroke their egos, and they'll fork over everything they have to satisfy their emotions. It's nothing more than base manipulation and advantage-taking, and there's simply no way we can build a better society with that as a base.

[Greenbeard]

29. Very True

That is why it is time for a paradigm shift.

...before the only salmon left will be those that are farm-raised.

[neebob]

6. They don't ask because they know the answer

and they know they would look really bad, having asked, continuing to support Israel and secretly arming both sides of wars involving Arabs and invading Arab countries and threatening their leaders and shit.

[Liberal Gramma]

10. I agree, we already know

but are unwilling to change our ways. It's not our freedom that terrorists hate, it's our meddling.

[sadiesworld]

7. Where's the oil in your plan?

:shrug:

[htuttle]

9. Americans aren't allowed to ask 'Why?' these attacks happen

You see, any answer to 'Why would someone fly a plane into the WTC' other than 'they are insane evil fanatics' runs the risk of getting you labeled a 'terrorist coddler', or engaging in 'moral relativism' or 'apologizing for the terrorists'.

We aren't allowed to imagine that we bear any blame for anything. The only reason that people don't like America is that they are insane or evil, says the mainstream position on both the left and right.

It's this attitude which will assure the final and complete destruction of the US empire. By not being able to even ask the honest question of 'why', we find we are utterly unable to formulate an effective solution. We are doomed by our demand to see ourselves as blameless.

Enjoy the show. :shrug:

[radwriter0555]

11. there are not 18,000 al queda terrorists threatening the US shores,

who are going to rape your women and steal your children.

This is all a big fat, silly lie.

Nor are their muslim jihads imperiling us either.

[bryant69]

12. This won't be possible

But there are four groups of people we might talk to you.

1. Committed Terrorists (like bin Ladin, assuming he's still alive). Makes little sense to talk to them because their long term goals are not in the realm of rationality. There are specific problems they have with us (like our support of Israel), but there are other goals they have that we can't really get around. (Are we really willing to allow Israel to be driven into the sea? Are we willing to become a Muslim Nation and abonden our decadent secular humanism?

2. Leaders of Arab Nation States. Talking to them is inmportant, but not always going to produce great results. They have to act on what their people want to a certain extent.

3. Leaders in the Islamic Religion. These are probably the people we need to talk to the most to understand what we can do to get along with the middle east and to lesson their dislike of us. But it's not very likely that we will.

4. The population of the middle east. This is obviously the goal for both us and al-Qaeda (and other terrorists groups). There's a core of dedicated terrorists that we aren't going to get, but they recruit from the larger population. Our goal is to create a situation in the middle east where it doesn't make sense to join al-Qaeda. THeir goal is to get as many recruits as possible. Unfortunately, many, if not most, of our actions over the last couple of years has been to the opposite effect, making it more likely they will support terrorist organzitions (or the resistance in Iraq, in that specific area).

Actually there are other groups--Al-Jazeera for example. Anyway it's somethign we should do, but still problematic.

[glarius]

13. Talking never hurts....

Who knows....there may be a middle ground everyone can agree on, but it will never be known if nobody tries....I kill you --- you kill me ad infinitum is certainly not the answer...:shrug:

[bryant69]

14. Yeah but this isn't a vacuum either

If you are talking about meeting with the terrorists themselves, well it's not like we don't have a record of what they believe. Go through the official statements of al-Qaeda and look for places where we might agree. I don't think there are that many.

Of course you've also got the matter of national pride. What level of meetings are you talking about? What level of openness? I mean if such meetings are open, how does that look?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[glarius]

17. Perhaps I am just naive but as I said in my original thread

meet with the leaders of the various Arab and Muslim countries....I do think it's worth a try....:)

[bryant69]

19. Ah.

Well that makes more sense. something I suspect President Kerry will do, although I'm not sure it will be successful.

I think meeting with clerics in the region would be a smart idea too.

[ArkDem]

16. Yes, they seem like very reasonable people.

.

[glarius]

18. I take it that is meant as

sarcasm....Of course they're not easy to get along with...I'm saying TALKING IS BETTER THAN KILLING! and there may be workable solutions.....

[leftyandproud]

22. talking is better than killing

really?

Seriously...these islamofascists have a warped world view...Maybe if we enslaved the jews and eliminates all women's rights, they would be happy..because we would finally be in compliance with islam. Until we do this...until we start treating women like dirt and praying for the death of Israel, we are their enemy for life and they will not compromise...sad but true.

[ArkDem]

24. Not enslave jews...Kill all of them...

[IranianDemocrat]

31. I agree.

There is no negotiating with these terrorists.

[leesa]

21. They don't care about the terrorists. It's just the current excuse

our government uses to steal resources and impose the will of our corporations on democracies. They know terrorism is not an issue...the risk from terrorism is small in the scope of things and to end it would be to end their justification for looting and bombing. Gotta have it....just like the boogieman communism used to be.

Why do you think we make leaders like Saddam and Osama??

[Killarney]

23. Two reasons why this will never work

Oil and Israel

[hughee99]

26. Terrorism

Some terrorist groups have stated that their goal is to "unite the world under <insert religion name here>", not all, but some. For these terrorists, how would understanding their hatred of us help us to come to a resolution?
For other terrorists, it has become a business, a means of acquiring power and money. They don't necessarily hate us, they use hatred as a means to an end.
Then there are some with legitimate problems with the US activity. Group A is upset that we support something. We could change our policy and then Group B would be upset that we are against something. Or Group C is upset that we're not doing anything about something, we're just "letting it happen". Would a better understanding of why people hate us help? Probably a little. Would we be willing to make the changes, in many cases, I doubt it.
As for Israel and Palestine, I don't think the problem is boarders anymore. At one time, it was, but not any more. You could make the whole land Palestine, and some people would still be upset over past greviances, reparations, the new government. Those people who derive their power from terrorism would not go back to their previous lives just because they've achieved their stated goals. Many of them have been in the business so long that they don't know any other lifestyle. They will only seek new causes and old enemies.
Anyway, this is just what I think.

[JHBowden]

27. Killing terrorists *is* the answer.

Trying to befriend suicide bombers isn't my idea of wisdom. There should be a greater emphasis on intelligence gathering so we can find who the bad guys are and kill them before they kill us. Imagine if we put much of the 200 Billion a year into this instead of nation building.

I do agree that randomly attacking governments, killing civilians, torturing people, et cetera, doesn't help the terrorism problem.