Disgusting email I just received

[celestia671]

I just got this from my cousin. I really don't know what to say in reply without starting an argument.



Subject: Iraqi Prisoner Treatment


These are not my words but they are certainly my feelings, and probably those of a majority of rational-thinking Americans.


-------------




I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi prisoners... however, I think it is vitally important that in my head I have these matters in proper perspective...
*Saddam had Iraqi men, women and children put to death in human meat grinders on a daily basis...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...


* Saddam had people thrown off of 3 - 4 story buildings, while their relatives were forced to watch...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...




* Saddam had people's tongues cut out, limbs chopped of, and even beheaded, while their families were forced to watch...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...


* Saddam's sons, as well as other Administrators and military personnel raped and sodomized Iraqi girls, some as young as 8 years old, on a daily basis...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...




* Saddam's regime indiscriminately put to death millions of Iraqi citizens on a daily basis, during the term of his brutal dictatorship, as evidenced by the mass graves recently uncovered in various parts of Iraq...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...


* Terrorists recently exploded several car bombs in Baghdad, killing 17 innocent Iraqi children and several dozen innocent Iraqi citizens...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...




* Terrorists have been killing American/Coalition soldiers on a daily basis since we sent our troops, many of whom gave their lives on Iraqi soil, used US taxpayer dollars to liberate the Iraqi people...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...


* Four Americans were killed in Fallujah, their bodies were burned, mutilated, dragged through the streets and hung on a bridge...while Iraqi people cheered and stoned the bodies...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...





AND NOW, A FEW IRAQI PRISONERS HAVE BEEN HUMILIATED (poor babies)...A PAIR OF WOMENS UNDERWEAR PUT ON THE PRISONERS' HEADS, A FEW NAKED PHOTOGRAPHS...AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE AND THE ENTIRE ARAB COMMUNITY GO BALLISTIC...GIVE ME A BREAK!!!



As I said, I don't condone what happened to the prisoners...but until the Iraqis and the Arab Community get their act together I wish the American news elite would stop being part of the problem and stop using this story to the benefit of the Arab community.



I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING! WE ARE AT WAR!

[stepnw1f]

1. That is Disgusting

Not rational

[Nevernose]

5. Not only is it "not rational"

Most of it is simply not true. Some days I just have to admire the right-wing...their capacity for just making shit up is simply remarkable.

[calimary]

10. How much of that is even near true?

Had their tongues cut out? And has anybody actually found any evidence of that so-called shredding machine he supposedly had people fed into? Or is this like the horror stories we were told as kindergarteners during the Cold War, when those dirty, nasty Commies were gonna come like thieves in the night and snatch children away and ram chop sticks through their eardrums? I swear, this is what we were told. Scared the bejeezus out of us! And we were FOUR years old!

Frankly, if any neocons said Saddam was a male humanoid with heavy eyebrows, I'd need independent confirmation. And how much of this may have come from the lovely Chalabi contingent?

[Nevernose]

25. Correction:

I said it "most of it is simply not true."

Of the eight points made, seven of them are complete fabrications.

"Four Americans were killed in Fallujah, their bodies were burned, mutilated, dragged through the streets and hung on a bridge...while Iraqi people cheered and stoned the bodies...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY..."

This is a half-truth, only true in a very technical sense; obviously, the Iraqi people cheering and stoning the bodies weren't outraged. This is the beauty if the right-wing method -- they use underreported events that are only familiar to most Americans, combined with a number of half-truths. They then spread a bunch of bullshit over it all and half of our nation eats it up, provided that they didn't just start with a bunch of bullshit to begin with.

It's frigging evil, but it works.

[celestia671]

11. It's not

One of the reasons shrub gave for going to Iraq was to liberate the people from the many abuses of Saddam, but yet, there are more than 'just a few' Iraqis suffering at the hands of Americans. We're supposed to be above that and treat POW's the way we would want our people to be treated if they get captured.

The pics I've seen of Abu Graihb(sp?) have brought me to tears.

[AussieInCA]

2. using this story to the benefit of the Arab community

"I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING! WE ARE AT WAR! "

Wow, so we're at war with the Arab community now?

Your cousin is drinking the kool aid bud..sorry for ya :(


Bushco and RW hate radio have done their job and got folks like your cousin to believe we're at war with Arabs...ala the culture war so it justifies us invading to help those brown people.


sad

[celestia671]

15. She's very much a freeper!

A product of too much FAUX News.

[AussieInCA]

20. yeah my co-workers dad is just the same..can't turn faux on fast enough

it is like a mind drug for them :(

[Sparkly]

3. Were we supposed to stop atrocities?

Or add to that list?

The Chimp apologized (to Jordan)... I just want him to resign.

[ibegurpard]

4. Ask your cousin how he/she would feel

if it were Americans in those pictures.

[Tom Kitten]

13. I'd go ahead and start an argument...

Cousin or not I'm at the point I won't let such bs flow under the bridge without adding my two cents worth..."Protocol" be damned, there's too much at stake here to just be silent any longer...

Of course that's just me...

[boobooday]

6. This guy is way tapped into Arab public opinion

I wonder how he knows so much about how the Iraqis and other Arab people reacted to Saddam?



http://www.wgoeshome.com

[On the Road]

7. I Would Say:

"Gee, what do you think should happen to people who repeatedly commit atrocities?"

[AliceWonderland]

8. Ah, I love it when these people

suddenly discover that they truly care about human rights.

/immense, immense cynical sarcasm

[opiate69]

9. How I would resond (in bold..)

My responses are not directed at celestia. Just wanted to be clear..

I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi prisoners... however, I think it is vitally important that in my head I have these matters in proper perspective...
*Saddam had Iraqi men, women and children put to death in human meat grinders on a daily basis...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...Proof? Back up this assertion with proof..


* Saddam had people thrown off of 3 - 4 story buildings, while their relatives were forced to watch...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...Again.. proof?




* Saddam had people's tongues cut out, limbs chopped of, and even beheaded, while their families were forced to watch...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...Once again.. proof? This is sounding more and more like the stories your parents told you about the boogey-man when you were little..


* Saddam's sons, as well as other Administrators and military personnel raped and sodomized Iraqi girls, some as young as 8 years old, on a daily basis...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...And now some of our soldiers have opicked up where he left off.. but we were suposed to be the civilized ones putting an end to the abuse...




* Saddam's regime indiscriminately put to death millions of Iraqi citizens on a daily basis, during the term of his brutal dictatorship, as evidenced by the mass graves recently uncovered in various parts of Iraq...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...Millions on a daily basis? Were that the case, Iraq qould have consisted of Hussein, his sons and his wives after about one month.


* Terrorists recently exploded several car bombs in Baghdad, killing 17 innocent Iraqi children and several dozen innocent Iraqi citizens...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... I would go search some arabic new sites and see if I could find some public outcry over these incidents..




* Terrorists have been killing American/Coalition soldiers on a daily basis since we sent our troops, many of whom gave their lives on Iraqi soil, used US taxpayer dollars to liberate the Iraqi people...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...Because we are not welcome, Sparky.. can you understand that??


* Four Americans were killed in Fallujah, their bodies were burned, mutilated, dragged through the streets and hung on a bridge...while Iraqi people cheered and stoned the bodies...NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...After they had learned of the abuses our soldiers were perpetrating. After watching American troops kill their loved ones... not condoning it, but damned sure i understand the emotions behind it.





AND NOW, A FEW IRAQI PRISONERS HAVE BEEN HUMILIATED (poor babies)...A PAIR OF WOMENS UNDERWEAR PUT ON THE PRISONERS' HEADS, A FEW NAKED PHOTOGRAPHS...AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE AND THE ENTIRE ARAB COMMUNITY GO BALLISTIC...GIVE ME A BREAK!!!Not to mention raped, sodomized, beaten to death... but why bother with such minutae?



As I said, I don't condone what happened to the prisoners...but until the Iraqis and the Arab Community get their act together I wish the American news elite would stop being part of the problem and stop using this story to the benefit of the Arab community.



I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING! WE ARE AT WAR! With the entire Arab world? Then when can we expect you to deploy, tough guy? I'm sure there's a recruiting office in your area.

[MisterP]

30. the mass graves are mainly from the Iran-Iraq War, when millions died

they were egged on by the Reagan admin to make them sell more oil--and thus cheaper oil--to fund their war

[gratuitous]

12. A little parable for your cousin

One night a poor Iraqi was sitting in his little house. It was a simple house, not many amenities, but it was home for him and his family. Suddenly, there was a knock on the door. The Iraqi opened the door, but before he could say or do anything, Saddam Hussein elbowed past him, sat down in his chair, and said, "Can I come in?"

The Iraqi and his family went about their business as best they could. Saddam took their best food, slept in their bed while they laid on the floor, and never pitched in with any of the household chores. But he sure made a big mess, which the Iraqis cleaned up as best they could.

Finally one day, Saddam died, as all men do. The Iraqi looked down at the corpse, then at his wife. They each took a heel and dragged the body out the door, where they threw it on the trash heap. "No, you can't come in," said the Iraqi as he went back into his house.

_____________________

We can't answer for the Arab community, their apparent lack of outcry, or their acquiescence. After all, Saddam was supported and armed for many years by the United States, and conducted a reign of terror, that a lot of people of good conscience both here and abroad opposed.

But now, we've invaded Iraq without cause, and interrupted the natural flow and history of the nation. We've tried to install Ahmad Chalabi, a convicted fraud and thief who hasn't lived in Iraq since the Eisenhower administration, as the new leader of the country, a successor to the butcher we originally installed and armed, and now are seeking to replace. We've bombed the country, terrorized the populace, killed thousands and thousands (the true number will never be known) of their citizens, and wounded, imprisoned and tortured who knows how many thousands more. And none of those people ever did anything or meant any harm to you, me, or anyone else you know in this country.

If you can't see a reason to apologize to this nation that we have grievously wronged, then you've checked your humanity, and the terrorists who sought to hurt our country on September 11 have succeeded far better than they could have ever hoped.

[Bridget Burke]

14. The same message was posted yesterday.

Here are some answers.

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1654800

I'd suggest a few gentle comments--see if your cousin is just a bit slow. If not--if they really agree with this crap--why not argue?

[maggrwaggr]

16. we're at war with "the Arabs?"

Well to people like that, I suppose we are.

Death to all Arabs!

[bluestateguy]

17. How quickly people forget history

There was plenty of outcry from the Iraqi people and many Americans, before it was considered cool to hate Saddam. The Kurds rose up in 1988 and in 1991, but were gassed by Saddam with gas given to them by the Reagan Administration. Shiites in southern Iraq rose up in 1991 and they were also brutally put down. In both cases the Reagan-Bush response was to issue a half-hearted condemnation and then move along like nothing happened.

[PeaceProgProsp]

18. Buy him this tshirt:

[Tyler Durden]

19. Sorry to sound like a quitter, but I'm going to run like hell.

I hear this shit all the time.

Where do you people live? The Hinterlands LOVE Bush. I think there is actually a good chance he could REALLY win, but he'll cheat anyway.

EXIT, STAGE LEFT!

[SemperEadem]

21. Your cousin speaks in middle eastern dialects?

how would he know unless he's read writings from Iraqi people as to whether or not there was an outcry from them or any in the Arab world.

I would tend to put more weight in behind what he said if he was fluent in the regional languages. But he's getting his talking points from a RW/Neocon point factory, providing no links or proof that this is even the case.

I'm not saying Saddam didn't do it. I'm saying that Americans would be the last to know if there is anything written regarding the reaction of the families or the greater Arab community on this.

When he learns to think on his own, he may prove formidable.

[NMDemDist2]

22. i went and read up on Saddam's "torture" at Human Rights Watch

and a few other sites.

It appears he was quick to use execution on criminals and political dissidents, but I found two sites that named Chalabi and the INC as "sources" for the torture stories

interesting

I didn't bookmark any of the sites, just did a search for "Saddam Hussein torture" and followed links


but send your friend this link to read, it may help

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

[sandnsea]

23. Send Andy Rooney

Here's what I'll say if I ever get one of this emails and I don't care who it comes from:

We don't want any torturers or torturepologists in this country. As far as I'm concerned, you can get out along with Lynndie England and the rest of them.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/20/60minutes/rooney/main618783.shtml

"One general said our guards were "untrained." Well, untrained at what? Being human beings? Did the man who chopped off Nicholas Berg's head do it because he was untrained?

The guards who tortured prisoners are faced with a year in prison. Well, great. A year for destroying our reputation as decent people.

I don't want them in prison, anyway. We shouldn't have to feed them. Take away their right to call themselves American - that's what I’d do. You aren't one of us. Get out. We don't want you. Find yourself another country or a desert island somewhere. If the order came from someone higher up, take him with you."

[baldguy]

24. 1. Saddam isn't in power anymore.

2. WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOOD GUYS! We're supposed to be there to liberate the Iraqis - not torture them.

[ColdWarZoomie]

26. My Response

This usually shuts them up with their Jr. High School "but mommy, they did worse things" argument...

"Our standards are not based on the actions of tyrants and murderers, but rather our own principles found in our Constitution. Either we are a nation rooted in the rule of law, or we are not, regardless of what Saddam did.

Our own military admitted it was criminal. Do you, or don't you, believe in the rule of law?"

Than I end it with "exactly what is your point?"

[seabeyond]

27. majority of rational-thinking Americans

i dont agree with this, so does that make me irrational?

is what i would send back to him. let him take it from there

the rape and murder he didnt mention, is that less than saddam too,. the picture of the man beaten to death, took hours opposed to the 1 minute, two minute beheading, which is more tortures and barbaric

[seabeyond]

28. btw

I don't condone what happened

that is exactly what he did as he said at least twice he doesnt condone, this whole post was exactly to condone. he isnt being honest

[mbee]

29. Ask what is the basic difference between Sadaam's cruelty to his

people and Bush invading their country and dropping bombs on innocent citizens in Iraq? Also, ask how many countries will Bush invade to help establish democracy where there is no oil or other American interest? Answer zero, zip, nada! Show this person the pic with Rumsfield and Sadaam shaking hands. This is all about business and has nothing to do with caring about people. These people stole an election and they don't give a damn about anything except themselves.