Christians look to secede; form 'new nation' within U.S.

[Bhaisahab]

article in freerepublic, with helpful comments from nuts

article excerpt:
Calling the approval of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts "the straw that broke the camel's back," a group of Christian activists is in the beginning stages of an effort to have one state secede from the United States to become its own sovereign nation.

"Our Christian republic has declined into a pagan democracy," says Cory Burnell, president of ChristianExodus.org, a non-profit corporation based in Tyler, Texas. "There are some issues people just can't take anymore, and might finally wake up the complacent Christians."

comments extract:
To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle

If they are serious, I swear my family and I will join them. No question. For now, I'm getting ready. A change is coming.

3 posted on 05/23/2004 11:59:09 PM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past

link:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1141057/posts

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. yes

wall em up inside texas, let no escapes, call it Fundy world

[leftistagitator]

31. Hey

You guys better tell me first.

[Bombtrack]

84. Texas actually has fun places/cities in it. Let them go to Wyoming

Or Idaho, or both. They can call it Wydaho.

[janx]

114. Forget it. Those states are too beautiful and too precious.

They can't have Colorado either.

[ArkDem]

85. Very well worded!

.

[SammyWinstonJack]

134. Atleast give me fair warning

:-)

[elfwitch]

139. no thank you...

All of Texas isn't bad. We've got Austin and San Antonio. How about we give them North Texas? They can have DFW and surrounding areas?

How about Montana? Isn't that one of the strongholds for the survivalist types? Just a suggestion.

[SemperEadem]

148. if they want to secede, then they need to leave the country

they need to get on a boat and drift. A spaceship with no destination is even better.

[Tight_rope]

183. Alcatraz is the best place for them!

Nobody resides there now. We won't even charge them rent. :beer:

Let them get the fuck :kick: out, so I can rest my nerves.

[minkyboodle]

185. Nooooo

I got good friends in Austin.... give em Orange County and some bunk beds...

[JaySherman]

2. Good. Let 'em.

I vote we give 'em Florida. Good riddance.

[7th_Sephiroth]

3. hey wait

not all of florida, just the penninsula, the panhandle isint all that bad

[JHB]

67. But as global warming melts more of the icecaps...

...sea levels will rise and Florida will go under.

So if any state is going to be "fundyworld", might as well make it Florida. If they're so sure they're right, let'em prove it by parting the waters.

[Hubert Flottz]

83. They will just walk on the water when it comes up!

"America Love It Or Leave It!" And don't let the door hit ya where the good Lawd split ya! Say Amen somebody!

[Peregrine]

137. Huh

the panhandle isint all that bad

South FL is Democratic
Central is Republican w/o the fundies
The panhandle is fundy central.

The Orlando Sentinel ran results of voter registration since the 2000 election. The panhandle had a 7% drop in registered Democrats. The only region showing a drop in Democrats.

[7th_Sephiroth]

157. i LIVE in centeral florida

Pensacola, and ecept for a few fundys, there arent manny repukes here

[blindpig]

168. I would have you know

That the Apalachicola region of the Panhandle has the highest biodiversity in the US. Give Mother Nature a break. Most of the people might suck but there's more to a place than people!

[Delano]

156. It's all bad. The panhandle is full of racist freeper a-holes.

Dump the whole state.

[Zhade]

178. Thanks for painting with a broad brush.

My parents live in Pensacola, and they are liberal.

Thanks for the condescension, though.

[Delano]

196. I have seen a few Bush/Cheney stickers here in San Francisco

That doesn't make it any less of a liberal mecca.

There are fine liberal people all over. It's just nice to be able to be open about it.

[tkmorris]

191. I am in Delray

and you have no idea what you are talking about. I'd like to remind you that Florida actually was blue in 2000 (never mind what the USSC says) which is more than a lot of states could say. Why when some DU'ers want to dump on a state do they pick Florida? A LOT of states were flat out Bush country in 2000, Florida was NOT one of them.

[Delano]

195. Didn't mean to apply the "freeper" part to the whole state

I realize that there are pockets of sensibility in S. Fla like Palm Beach County - I lived in Miami, where Gore also won. However, in spite of the liberalism, W. Palm still has the nightmarish hot weather, the horrible traffic, the monotonous suburban sprawl and flatness. Nice beaches and LOTS of golf courses may be enough compensation for some - not for me.

[Kiliki]

5. I really don't want to lose Florida...

Think about it... the big Mouse, Cape Canavaral, thongs in Miami, Hemingways 6 toed cats in Key West. We can't let them have it! Lets pick some really groody place like rural Mississippi!

[JaySherman]

11. The Big Evil Mouse. I rest my case.

Disney and the Fundies. Can't think of a match more made in heaven (no pun intended). We could kill two birds with one stone right there.

On the other hand, we could give them that strip of California (including Disneyland) that's scheduled to fall in the Pacific when The Big One hits :evilgrin:.

[HawkerHurricane]

60. Excuse me?

Fundies and Disney do NOT get along; ever since Disney World wouldn't give some group a discount rate...

As for the old canard about California falling into the sea... After the 'Big One', the entire U.S. east of the Rockies is going to fall into the Atlantic.

[Skip Intro]

10. Florida is a gorgeous state

Have you been there?

[JaySherman]

13. Yeah, but my idea has nothing to do with beauty.

When I think of Florida I can't help but think of Jeb and rigged elections.

[Skip Intro]

25. They can have Utah and the side of Cuba we control

We do control part of Cuba, right? Quantanamo is there? Its weird (to me, anyway) how we share an island with a regime that a little while ago the WH press secretary was insisting was suspected for WMD, remember? It happened at the exact same time Jimmy Carter visited the nation, and met with Castro. Dialog - bad idea; sanctions, maybe bomb -

somebody say God bless America.

[punpirate]

35. The history of Guantanamo is interesting....

Cuba ceded the territory as part of the conclusion of the Spanish-American War, where the new government of Cuba leased the site to the United States in perpetuity, as part of, funny as it seems now, a mutual protection agreement (something like what would now be called a "status of forces agreement").

So, Cuba continues to honor the agreement, but refuses to accept payment on the lease. The US makes annual payment on the lease, and Cuba refuses to cash the checks.

[Delano]

197. Lived there for 3 1/2 years, have been to almost every part.

Many of the folks living in the towns ringing Lake Okeechobee would have to "clean up" to join the clique from "Deliverance"

There is a sort of beauty, if you are into endless stretches of waterlogged grass, or maybe really into fishing, golf & humidity.

I really missed being able to climb a mountain on the weekends...

[DavidFL]

26. Hey now...

I don't wanna get stuck living in a "country" with fundamentalists, even though the fundamentalists here in Florida can already go toe-to-toe with the best of them in places like Texas and Missouri. But if they were to get Florida, at least give those of us who don't wanna live in such a "country" a stipend to move out and set up someplace else!

[JohnLocke]

162. Florida?! You're going to give my home away?

No! :) :)

[minkyboodle]

186. we got keep it if only for the keys

[Birthmark]

4. I'm for it.

I recommend Texas. :)

[elfwitch]

140. Quit picking on Texas...

South Texas is not like that. They can have North Texas though. I would not shead a single tear if Dallas was their new capital. I'd just move back to San Antonio.

[ejcastellanos]

165. Is it possible?

Another DFW DUer? So many Bush 04 stickers around here make me want to give into road rage. Why is it they are almost always on trucks and SUVs?

Ah for a piece of early 70's, 2 ton, POS Detroit engineering to put the fear of scratching their SUVs into them.

[fudge stripe cookays]

171. Hey EJ and welcome!

My husband (reprehensor) and I are in Rowlett!

There's plenty of us on here. RedQueen and I were throwing around the idea of a DU DFW meetup.

[Leilani]

6. What a terrific idea!!!

If they are all confined to a small area, they will do less damage.

If they would ALL move, I would be willing to give them several states.

How about Utah? Does anyone have any problem with that?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[neverborn]

8. Hey now.

That sounds like something FR would say about Muslims. WTH.

[7th_Sephiroth]

12. trust me

left to thier own in thier lil soverign area they will be worse than muslim extremists

[Bhaisahab]

15. okay, here's a question...

do americans- democrats and republicans- think the only way to remove extremism is to kill 'em all?
it doesn't seem to be working on the muslim extremists so far. i would say a better policy would be to negate their worldview intellectually and chip their supporters away by exposing the anti-freedom streak in extremist thought.

[7th_Sephiroth]

20. religious fudamentalists are verry tricky

they dont respond to logic because they cant, thats why thier religious, because they lack the higher mental capacity wich has allowed them to be brainwashed, trying to bring them down intelectually would probably cause them to fly into a blind rage. And the reason, and i'll probably get flamed for saying this, is that we arent going after the real muslim extremeists, were shooting the small fish that are trying to get in the way of the big fish (saudi's) and we are going about it in a way that is inneffective, and is only creating more terrorists.

[leftistagitator]

29. I understand the frustration

I'm not very fond of the fundamentalists either. But they aren't subhuman, or stupid, they are simply mistaken. They have been fed a lie, probably at an early age, certainly when they were emotionally ill prepared to protect themselves from a con claiming to have all the answers. We must treat them with respect even if they refuse to give it to us. Let them self-segregate if they choose, but I'm still hoping we can bring some of them around.

[7th_Sephiroth]

33. it wont happen

lifetimes of mental and physical abouse to the point to where a religion is pounded into them as a way of life make them un-changeable, do you think they will just sit in thier little corner playing thier game boy? christian fundementalists only think of 1 thing, convert them to the "truth" or kill them, and never stop til thier all "saved", the first thing they will do is seek out "the power of god" (nukes) to force everyone to convert (christian fundies use fear ALOT)and i dont even want to think about the human rights violations that are bound to happen

[progdonkey]

36. Fundies are scum

I'll have to disagree with leftistagitator on his contention that fundies are simply mistaken. People who follow any religious dogma are "simply mistaken," (I'm not even religious, and I'm sure I'm mistaken on quite a few things) but Fundies are mentally unstable. One of my good friends is a devout evangelical, and I chide him on some of his... interesting... beliefs, but we treat each other with mutual respect... something I've never experienced from Fundies.
People who have "normal" religious beliefs simply believe they follow the truest path towards God, but fundamentalists believe not only that theirs is the one true path but that those who do not follow deserve to be eradicated. (Have you seen that jackass Dobson--the son--from Focus on the Family calling for more radical intolerance towards non-Christians on CBN?!)
I think if fundamentalist groups start calling for secession, the rest of the country, including mainstream Christians, will realize just how messed up these people are. At least, that's what I hope! Also, what will Bushie do? Prevent the secession, or become their new president?

[devinsgram]

44. Now, that I think would be a great idea,

they get their own little country and have the idiot in chief be their president. I vote for Texas or Florida.

[Eye and Monkey]

123. They would steal nukes. They would threaten to use them. Eventually -

they would use them.

Though I don't think they would have much chance at getting anywhere with seccession.

[janx]

126. Self segregation is one thing. Taking over a state and

seceding from the Union is another. But somehow I don't think we'll have to worry about it.

[catzies]

145. Well, yeah, of course you're right but here's the thing

While we hope we can bring them around, if it were reversed they'd be lining us up and shooting us down without even a twinge of thought or conscience.

You are obviously a very good person with dignity, class and respect. Too bad they wouldn't treat you the same way.

[LeahMira]

64. Intellectually?

i would say a better policy would be to negate their worldview intellectually and chip their supporters away by exposing the anti-freedom streak in extremist thought.

Seems to me that it's difficult to negate anything intellectually when the folks that hold the worldview in question can only go so far intellectually. Then you bump up against that brick wall of blind, unquestioning faith... in the Almighty, in Bush, in whatever.

It would be an interesting exercise to find out where they intend to "go" after they get everything they want, though. The Republicans have control of both houses of Congress and the White House, so they certainly can't complain that "evil liberals" are holding them back. So, now that they have the power, exactly where are they leading the country?

[laura888]

30. Yes, I vote to give them Texas as well

Let's see what a mess they make of government when they abolish all their tax system.

Question: would we protect them with our military? I say "no."

[sendero]

62. Dammit...

.... I live here (Texas) and I don't want to move and I don't want any more of them folks around!

Send them to Utah or Wyoming or their Own Private Idaho. :)

[elfwitch]

141. Quit picking on Texas...

As I've said in other posts here, the bad image of Texas and Texans is the fault of North Texas. South Texas is not like that. Austin and San Antonio are great places to live.

[TexasDem]

149. Isn[t Delay's District in South Texas

Dallas is a democratic county. Bush only got 52% of the vote here in 2000. Outside houston is Delay's District .. they can start there.

[Castilleja]

190. Tom Delay's district is NOT in South Texas.

Why would we want more of them here in Texas anyway? How about letting them build an island way the hell out to sea somewhere....WAY out. Give it a rest anyway, people. As if Texas is the only place where there are religious fundy types, please! :eyes:

[Tight_rope]

181. Wait...I live here...You'll have to pay for my relocation!

I want outta here anyway. Sick of these neo-con cowboys anyway.
They make me :puke:

[minkyboodle]

188. since we are impuning entire regions...

I vote to give the all of Virginia below Fredricksburg... or maybe even below Occoquan.

[notadmblnd]

61. Utah, Montana...

Wyoming and Idaho. Those are my picks, their butts will be so cold in the winter, they'll wish they'd die and go to hell.

[LibertyorDeath]

9. Well seceding from their intellect has gone so well they are

taking the next step.

Good luck with that.

[Sapphocrat]

14. GOOD!

GO! Get the fuck out of my country!

[OneBlueSky]

16. why not just give 'em Idaho or Montana or somethin' . . .

just to get them out of our hair . . .

[indigo32]

131. No Not Montana

no way. Besides those western folks are independant cusses. They wouldn't put up with being told what to do very well at all LOL

[rocktop15]

17. Who said all Christians were fundamentalists?

All this Christian bashing on here is very uncalled for and downright ignorant. I consider myself a liberal Christian.

Judging from this board----its OK to bash Christians and their beliefs but if one is to bash Muslims or Hindus, then that is predjudice?

The Christian bashing needs to stop. Get over it.

[charlie]

19. The thread title

is the article title at FR. Get a grip.

[rocktop15]

21. Yea but........

all the positive responses in this thread kinda go against the grain.

[JHB]

76. If you'll note, NO ONE said that.

I think if you ask most posters here understand the difference between "Christians" in the general sense and "Christians" as fundamentalist/evangelicals use the term.

Would you agree that it's disingenuous for them to use the word in a way that implies THEY are the "real Christians" and everyone else is NOT?

The "Christian bashing" you see here isn't what you think (at least for most -- can't speak for everyone) and isn't out of ignorance. If the "Christian" (Right) would call itself something more accurate, like "the Pharissees", there'd be no confusion. But on an Internet board, where poeple are generally posting quick replies, the terms in common use get used.

You just have to read between the lines as to when "Christian" should be in quotation marks, and when it shouldn't.

[janx]

118. Nobody said all Christians are fundamentalists.

n/t

[Skip Intro]

18. It would quickly become the most armed nation on earth

the most righteous, the most armed and the most paranoid - well, that's kinda redundant

[tjwash]

129. Cool, then they will off each other shortly afterward.

nt

[bluestateguy]

22. Yes, YES!! Do it, DO IT!!!

We'll win every election to come. Giving up one US state is is absolutely worth it if it means these fundamentalistwackos will just leave us all the hell alone. What can we do to help?

[bluestateguy]

23. delete

[punpirate]

24. Funny thing is...

... if you look at the current Texas Republican platform, it could have been written by this bunch.

Texas, unlike virtually all other states, still has this entrenched belief that they are acting as a state simply as a favor to the US--there are more than a few nuts in Texas who believe it's an independent Republic and always has been, simply because it was declared a republic in 1836, and didn't join the Union as a state until 1845.

As well, in the past decade, federal tax dollars returned to Texas declined slightly (although payments from Texas probably declined, as well), so some in the state may think that, financially, secession would be a net gain.

So, the situation in Texas might be ripe for exploitation by the religious right.

What will keep the lid on this, I think, are Texas politicians in Washington. DeLay, for one, would be king of nothing were Texas to secede. And, certainly, for the hard-right Republicans, Texas as a power base in US politics is more important than as an example of religious political power. After all, don't the President and VP (regardless of where Cheney says he hangs his hat) come from Texas. Don't think they can run again as foreign nationals....

What these folks really want is the whole country under a theocracy, with themselves as the equivalent of the Wahhabi religious police of Saudi Arabia. Picking and choosing a state for secession is mostly wishful thinking, a desire for the plan to hurry up.

Cheers.

[Selwynn]

27. I thought Idaho already was that.. :D

[JHB]

Not really...

Some nutballs tried to make it so, until it made the state look bad and the rest of it started fighting back.

[Selwynn]

113. Well, I live here...

and I don't agree with you at all.

[JHB]

117. OK

I seem to be misinformed on this.

I'll bow to your more direct experience.

[Cleita]

184. If you haven't been there you could think so.

I love Idaho. I hate the Patricians who own it and I empathize with the Pleblians who are exploited. I hate the religous nuts who keep the salt-of-the-earth people slaves. I love the country there. The northern panhandle is where God still lives, but She will be driven out soon by the Others.

[Sandpiper]

28. Let's give them Alabama

Roy Moore can be their President. We can throw in Mississippi and Texas for good measure.

A small price to pay to rid the country of Christian fundamentalist nuts.

[doni_georgia]

37. I'd rather not be next door to them - doesn't the US own an island we can

give them?

[Striker Davies]

38. Why waste a good bit of territory?

I'm sure we could agree with Putin to give them Novaya Zemlya. The climate would be most healthy and bracing, and they'd be far enough away not to cause problems, and near enough to keep an eye on with a satellite.

[maxrandb]

152. Yes! Guam would be perfect

and it is close enough for little day trips to child prostitutes in the Philipine and Thailand. Know how those fundies love little boys and girls.

The sooner these nutcases are raptured the hell out of here, the better the country will be.

[Daisey Mae]

32. Give em a rowboat

and tell them to paddle........Utah and Florida are too Good for them.......They would be right back in our faces with their useless BS.... but with the rowboat scheme they might just be whisked off by some fast moving current to a place where they can stage their Armageddon Stuff and they won't have to drag us into WW 3 to fulfill their hair brained profecies.... think David Koresh, Jim Jones and our idiot boy king.......

[w13rd0]

34. I vote we pack them all in near Branson, Missouri...

...that way, we don't have to move Branson, so many are already there, and it's be like bait. Also, it has the added advantage of landlocking them, in a region that seems to only be good for growing pot and tobacco. Can you imagine their loony army? It's make the Taliban look like moderates.

[ClintonTyree]

39. When did.............

our country become a "Christian Republic"? I must have missed a Constitutional Ammendment somewhere along the line.

[union_maid]

40. A Good Start

I've been hoping some of the rightwing would secede. Someone's going to have to give up a state. Pick one. I don't care which one. I'd be happy to move to support this, but I don't think New York is going to be the one for them.

[President Jesus]

41. this article is fucking priceless

let's have weekly updates, please.

[izzie]

42. Well since we never tell these people what to do they-------

can take over a state and tell each other what to do. Now that is fair and they will be out of our hair.I am for it.

[arwalden]

43. And Good Riddance To The Sorry Lot Of Them All

Reminds me of the time they all set sail on this big wooden ship... the Mayflower.

[Nihil]

48. Was going to say that myself!

Seem to remember that the religious fruitcakes all set sail from
the evil intolerant motherland a few hundred years ago ...

My, how history repeats itself :-)

[GreenPartyVoter]

45. Are they going to take Texas?

[salin]

46. Don't know why

but Jim Jones... taking his flock to Guyana sorta comes to mind. Very Creepy.

[Eurobabe]

47. buh-bye!

don't let the doorknob hit ya where the dog shoulda bit ya!

[HootieMcBoob]

49. Really good news

But I would hate to loose Austin. They can have Mississippi or Alabama, they pretty much have those states anyway. They're booth run by Republican nutjobs and are consistently at the very bottom statistically in every category from education to health to jobs. Do you think Mississippi and Alabama would be big enough to hold them all? What a beautiful idea, I do encourage them to move forward with this brilliant idea. :)

[The Zanti Regent]

51. I thought they already moved to Texas!

and I would be more than happy to let Texas fill up with these sick nuts and then let it go!

because the real fun will happen when they find out how many of these freaks are in the closet!

[dusty64]

50. Bub Bye!

:hi:. If ONLY getting rid of them would be so easy.

[blindpig]

52. South Carolina is their target state

according to RW radio this morning. They want 12k activist to move here to finish the job that history started. Now, before you say good riddance folks, I live here! While a lot of the people suck there are some good folks here who suffer enough from the current situation. I don't want to have to leave my house in the woods(yesterday I saw 2 red shoulder hawks, 2 black rat snakes, 1 garter snake & 2 blue-gray gnatcatchers, among others) and I'd rather not die in a hail of lead defending myself against the christofacsist.
Jeez, when is someone going to whip that mummy out of the sub-basement of the Vatican?

[Bridget Burke]

63. I understand--I'm a Texan.

So many of the pure folk on these boards are ready to let a state go if it's not as groovy as their own perfect locality.

It's not only that there are Liberals living in both our states (& not all the good Texans live in Austin, either). But quite a few of the people the pure folk would dismiss as "rednecks" don't much care for the Bible thumpers, either.

[LizW]

75. Thank you.

I wish people would read the article. Sure it's all funny when it's someone else's state, but read on and it gets downright scary.

These people are serious. Sure, they're deluded fanatics, but that doesn't mean one should laugh them off. The article mentions non-violence a lot, but makes no mention of what would happen to those South Carolina residents who don't wish to live under Christian domination. I guarantee you the response would be, "Well, you're free to leave." Your house, farm, or business would, of course, be absorbed by the new Christian Republic of South Carolina.

[janx]

112. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

All of TWELVE people are actively working on the project.

The principle absolutely stinks, though. I agree with you there.

[chelsea0011]

53. And which state? I bet it has great weather and beaches.

Wouldn't want anything else, would they?

[janx]

116. You are right! They must have a beach! LOOK:

"To: Condor51
"C'mon guys I'm ready to go -- but West, not South."


But, to really have a chance of making a go of it, you need a coastline. Last I looked, there wasn't a lot of beachfront property in Montana and Wyoming.


46 posted on 05/24/2004 7:23:52 AM MDT by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsënspåånkængrüppen ØberKømmändø (EMØØK))

[rebellious woman]

54. sooner the better....no miss here.

[displacedtexan]

55. I hear there's a nice compound in Guyana available (Jonestown)...

at a ridiculously low price. The US still owns it.

[iconoclastic cat]

56. "We can categorically say that absolutely nothing has been achieved"

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38571

That should be the new RNC slogan! It fits all of their work on all of the important issues: Education, the economy, etc.

[iconoclastic cat]

57. :BushRevealed.com contends president compromising faith, promoting evil"

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36604

Another great slogan!

What do you know, I actually agree with their goal.
They're still theocratic fascists, though...

[Misinformed01]

58. They don't have the balls to try.

Xians have a shallow, false sense of security that will be their undoing-

Too bad; I wish they would leave.

[bleedingheart]

59. Straight outta the Handmaid's Tale...

[NewJeffCT]

82. My thoughts exactly

Wasn't Utah it's own country in Handmaid's Tale, or am I thinking of a different country?

[Stuckinthebush]

65. Death Valley is available (n/t)

[leesa]

66. Great idea! They could barbed-wire themselves in and nurture their

hate amongst themselves. My projection for this little project and the 1000 year reign of Christians after the Rapture, is that they will begin fighting and killing each other within ten minutes.

[Loonman]

68. Sounds like treason

Treachery.

[ProfessorGAC]

69. Huh?

"Our Christian republic has declined into a pagan democracy," says Cory Burnell, . . .

It's a democratic republic, idiot! It's always been a democracy, even if we leave aside the chistian (or not) history of the country.

So, the latter point is debatable, and the former is just plain stupid.
The Professor

[iconoclastic cat]

70. An independent Fundie state would be very dangerous!

Look at what was borne of the same intent in Afganistan!

[Jacobin]

97. That's ok. At least we could suround them

and they wouldn't be scattered all over the country like they are now.

[lil-petunia]

71. What the?

Not one person suggested the former nuke test sites in Nevada? That would be purrrfect!
Once their groundwater made them glow in the dark, they'd think that rapture was approaching.

[ReaderSushi]

72. Sounds good

Give them Alabama, Missisippi and the Florida panhandle.
The other states are too valuable.
Texas = oil
Western states = minerals
Great Plains = arable land
Liberals would use natural resources more wisely anyway and would gladly help our displaced southern friends build a new home.

[complain jane]

74. They can have

everything west of the fault line in CA, I say.

[Sapphocrat]

161. Bzzzzzt! Sorry, try again.

Assuming you mean the San Andreas, everything "west of the faultline" is the COAST, for crimenysakes. You want to lose every port city south of Eureka? Sheer insanity.

Besides, everything from the marijuana fields of Mendocino County through the entire San Francisco Bay Area is west of the San Andreas. If you think we're just a bunch of mellow, hot-tubbing hippies out here, just wait until some fundy nutcase tries to invade; the Berkeley riots of the 1960s will look like a love-in.

Give them any state that 1) is landlocked, and 2) depends heavily on trucked-in produce. Without access to California or the Midwest, they'll starve to death.

Utah is sounding more ideal all the time. I'd be sorry to lose the Great Salt Lake, Zion, Bryce, and all those nifty fossil sites, but it would be worth it.

[playahata1]

174. On Utah as a possibility.

I don't suppose the MORMONS might not have something to say about that. Don't they have issues with Christianity in general? Despite similiarities between the Mormons and the Fundies, I can see some major conflict breaking out if the Fundies were to try and seize control of the state.

[Egalitarian Zetetic]

73. Didn't we go through this in the 19th century? <nt>

[callous taoboy]

77. Yippee! They should break out the koolaide!

[Triana]

78. byeeeee! no love lost here... (n/t)

[Justpat]

79. One can only hope....

I say we give them Texas. I don't want to give up Florida.
I live seven months of the year there and I love it.

[Solly Mack]

80. IOW. They are whiney, pathetic, pouty, sullen.........WEAK......people

who can't abide liberty for all...

so they want to take their toys and ...not build a new sandbox (as they haven't the gumption to do so)...but will so graciously annex a state (still connected to services, infrastructure and , most importantly, to other states they can visit & trade with)...so basically, these cry babies just want to shut their bedroom doors and whine about how unfair life is..when the truth is, they created most of the actual unfairness themselves.

Grow up!

[Sparkly]

81. Good!

They "just can't take anymore" of people doing things that do no harm to them whatsoever, like same-sex marriage.

They "just can't take anymore" their inability to control other people's lives and reproductive systems by enforcing their religion on those with other views.

I'd be thrilled if they managed to secede. I'd be thrilled if all of the red states did. But blue states provide tax dollars that support many of the red states, so just don't ask us to provide any foreign aid to the new confederacy.

[nickinSTL]

86. Fundy nation

Let them go. Give them some crappy state. (won't comment on which...)

Not Florida, though. My parents shouldn't have to put up with that.

And there are some BEAUTIFUL places there. I don't want to lose them.

[Hubert Flottz]

87. How's about our newest state #51 New Babylon(Iraq)

There's a heap of soul savin' to be done thereabouts!

[robertpaulsen]

198. And Viceroy Ann Coulter shall be their leader!

Since Christian Fundamentalists are the most vocal proponents of "staying the course" in Iraq, why not take the course of this Crusade to it's logical (Coulter logic anyway) conclusion? Gotta shoot for maximum conversions before the Rapture happens!

[Jose Diablo]

88. Please, don't call them Christian

They are far from followers of the christ. When you see someone filled with hate, then you know they cannot be followers of someone that refused to hate.

[BurtWorm]

89. Good riddance!

(And of course I only mean good riddance to the Christians who can't tolerate tolerance, not to all Christians.)

Let's give them Crawford, Texas and surrounding shrubland. They can pretend they're wandering in the desert.

[gauguin57]

91. let's create a new barrier island

off some coast somewhere, and ship 'em all out there. Let them have their theocracy and leave the rest of us alone.

[BurtWorm]

92. How about the "Flower Garden" 100 miles off the Gulf Coast?

It's a very unique environment. 55% is covered with living coral!

[Nihil]

100. Bikini? Gruinard?

I'm sure there are a few other suitable islands for them.

[Malva Zebrina]

90. Let them have Kansas

let them have any place that leeches tax monies off the NE blue states-- at least we won't have to subsidize them any more.

Interesting notion that being secular and separate from religion, means it is "pagan". I guess the poster doesn't have a clue as to what pagan means. To him it means not Christian.

Early Christians in ancient Rome and thereabouts were referred to as pagans also.

[arwalden]

110. Or maybe Utah.

[Cleita]

180. I agree with both Kansas and Utah, especially Utah and

there's miles and miles of unoccupied land there. Believe me there is. Try driving through there and get a bit panicky about finding a gas station.

[waywest]

93. Let them have Iraq.

nt

[kimchi]

94. Buh bye!

I have a feeling they'd feel more at ease in Saudi Arabia, though.

[n0_data]

95. LOL!

How creepy. But if you guys do it, I want to open a strip club and bar on the border. Figure that will rake in millions.

44 posted on 05/24/2004 6:18:37 AM PDT by Central Scrutiniser

[Jacobin]

96. Great News!!!

Let'em pick a state or two.

Best news I've heard all year.

:bounce:

[Burma Jones]

98. Good Bye and Good Riddance

You can have Texas


On Edit: I lived in Houston for a year, and it was the most miserable year of my life, so to all you good, decent Texans - and there are plenty of you - I'm sorry, I suppose it's personal. But, there are havens for y'all up north you know........

[Bridget Burke]

128. Do you have jobs?

Houston definitely has its problems, but one year living outside the loop isn't a good test.

You did live outside the loop, didn't you?

[Burma Jones]

143. I was in Montrose and then down the Gulf Freeway at the Fuqua exit

I had spent a lot of summers there too, divorced parents and Mom was in Houston, I have a brother living there now and he likes it just fine. I can see where one might appreciate the Houston area if you lived, say, in the Woodlands maybe, or River Oaks. Was downwind of Pasadena enough to just not like the place. Also, I'm just a East Coast Megapolis kind of guy.

And yes, there are jobs in the DC area..........

[Butterflies]

99. Give them polluted Texas!

Sounds good to me :thumbsup:

[booley]

101. so many asteroids going to waste

Why force liberals, moderates, non-christians and just generally sane people suffer?

We have hundreds (possibly thousands) 0f perfectly good and uninhabited asteroids just waiting to be used.

So hollow one out, make it habitable inside and make that the fundy homeland..I mean home world.

Then send it on a slow trip to Arcturus and that way when they destroy the world with thier 'end times' crap, they won't take the rest of us with them.

Maybe we should even get all the rest of the religouse nut jobs, that ones that give religion a bad name, thier own asteroid as well. We'd be solving most of the middle east and India's problems right there...

Sure, it would cost trillions of dollars but in the end I think it would make everybody happy. even the fundies (at last they would have a world to themselves..)

[bullimiami]

102. good riddance

pick a state, any state. they can have it.
we can put up an israeli style "security barrier" and have a little peace and quiet for once.

[Nihil]

106. Security barrier?

F*ck it, let them go to Israel if they want to be in "the right place" ...

[jakefrep]

103. Let 'em have Guam if they want to leave.

As long as we don't let them have any place that has a stash of Nuclear weapons and the like.

This is Pat Roberson's wet dream...to be Ayatollah of his own personal Iran.

[wtmusic]

104. They can share Yucca Mountain

with piles of radioactive waste. That's all they get.

[Cat Atomic]

105. I don't understand. I thought they were about "love it or leave it".

That was the mantra when they seemed to be winning, anyway. Now they want to secede?

No, sorry. If you want to live in a theocratic state, go to Iran.

[DaveSZ]

107. Well alright

Give the Fundies Texas, and I'll move on to greener pastures.

:)

[Mattforclark]

108. Anarchy, State, and Utopia

I've no problem with them starting their own state, so long as only people who want to live there have to live there. But you run into several problems - children (do they want to live there?) - and land - given the impracticalities of having multiple states on the same geographical area, where will their new Zion be?

[janx]

109. I was just about to post this!

What do these fundamentalists think the good people of North Carolina are going to do--just let them take over their state?

What kind of lunacy is this?

[noonwitch]

111. Don't they already have Idaho?

Are there any remote artic islands north of Alaska we could let them have? The North Pole? On the other hand, why do that to the poor Claus family and their employees and reindeer?

[janx]

120. They don't have Idaho--I was just in Idaho and Montana.

They definitely don't have Idaho and will not get it, I assure you.

[northzax]

115. wait a minute here

think of this problem. these bozos (and in my opinion anyone who wants to secede from the Union is a bozo) will probably make a flag or something. and then we'll have to go to war, and beat them like we beat their traitorous seccessionist great grandaddy's 140 years ago. and then our grandchildren will have to deal with their grandchildren waiving this flag around and talking about 'heritage'

seems like a lot of effort for a couple of freaks, y'know?

[ObaMania]

119. Don't they already have Utah?

.

[janx]

122. The Mormons have Utah. And the Mormons would kick

ass if anyone tried to change that.

[rocktivity]

121. Terroristic Un-American Traitors!

The United States is NOT a theocracy--it does not and cannot have an official religion or hold one in higher esteem than another. These people are, in effect, trying to overthrow the U.S. government. If they want to live in society with a religion-based government, they should move to Afghanistan!

:headbang:
rocknation

[janx]

124. Look at this guy--he wants to cash in:

"To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle

How creepy. But if you guys do it, I want to open a strip club and bar on the border. Figure that will rake in millions.

44 posted on 05/24/2004 7:18:37 AM MDT by Central Scrutiniser (Sometimes getting some ain't worth having to sit through a Julia Robberts film.) "

[insidious]

125. Is French Guyana still available???

We can take a collection and place an order to one of the local kool-aid merchants as soon as they arrive.

[davsand]

127. OK--I'll strap on my Kevlar panties and go for it here:

This is a small group of folks who are trying to organize for change. I'll grant you, the vision they have for a utopia is not one I share, but is this really any different than one of us taking a lounge thread about forming a DU colony someplace and making it a website?

I'm out of the broom closet on here--and this may shock some of you who know me--but I really hate to see the sincere, honest, Christians lumped in with a few guys with really radical views. That is roughly like saying anybody from the south is a klukker or anybody who is Muslim is a terrorist...


I'll climb down off my soapbox now, end of lecture...


Pax.

Laura

[janx]

133. As for your comment here:

"I'm out of the broom closet on here--and this may shock some of you who know me--but I really hate to see the sincere, honest, Christians lumped in with a few guys with really radical views. That is roughly like saying anybody from the south is a klukker or anybody who is Muslim is a terrorist..."

Could you point out where on this thread that has occurred?

[davsand]

136. I was afraid this would happen...

Look--this is not about you or anyone else that posted on this thread--it is about how it comes across to any of our DUers who read here and feel that they are somehow viewed negatively for the faith they practice.

In recent times we've had a fair number of threads on here where people express feeling hurt or angry that they are devalued for being active in a church. I just hate to see that happening to our community. Maybe I am just more aware of it given the fact that as a witch I see crap all the time that demeans or disparages my beliefs, but I just hate seeing it here at DU when it is directed at anybody.

My personal view is that religion does play a role in people's values and in how they see the world, but it should never play a public role in the political process. To cite an example of what I'm meaning here it is the difference between saying:

"I feel this way about (Insert issue here), personally." -v- "My church says (insert issue here) is right/wrong, therefore it must be the law."

The difference in the two statements really comes down to the idea that one is a personal expression and the other is touting the party line (if you'll forgive the expression.) There is a danger when everybody jumps on a bandwagon to throw out the "party line." It can become a gang bang really quickly--and somebody always gets hurt by it.

If you look over this thread with an open heart, I think maybe you will see how some folks could feel insulted by it--especially if they were already sensitized by other more inflammatory threads that came before.

Peace to you.

Laura

[janx]

146. I think I have a little more FAITH (haha) in DU readers than that.

Most know the difference very well. ;-)

These fundamentalist types do a great disservice to most Christians, just as the fundamentalist Muslim types do to most Muslims.

So it's probably not a good idea to refrain from talking about these things out of some kind of fear that we might offend some people.

[dansolo]

130. Tell them how much their taxes will go up if they secede

I read that the Republican dominated states receieve more federal spending than tax revenues that they generate. Without the US government to fund them, they will be forced to dramatically increase their taxes.

[AspenRose]

132. Time to re-read "Handmaid's Tale"

I highly recommend it to the young DUers if you haven't read it before. By Canadian author Margaret Atwood.

It was required reading in my Women's Lit class in college some 15 years ago. It is as pertinent today as it was then.

[onecitizen]

135. Good! Let me help them pack.........

Why does "Kent" think he's trapped in Seattle? He's free to go if he wants. Actually, I'd prefer they move off the continent.

[EV1Ltimm]

138. wow. an american Abu Sayyaf...

a fringe group of religious zealots seeking a theocratic state.

[Terran]

142. Oh PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN!! n/t

[JETS]

144. Will this new nation be a free territory or a slave territory? n/t

[Jacobin]

160. Silly!!, The women will be slaves

Says so in the bible, at least according to many of them.

[geniph]

147. Maybe we can negotiate a deal with Canada

(aka, in Freepish, Soviet Canuckistan) to give them Ellesmere Island!

[Zorra]

150. Fantastic idea. They can all go live in Iraq after they conquer it.

[DiskDefrag]

151. Time to bring out the treason charges

If this isn't a suggestion of overthrowing the US or a state government I don't know what is.

"If they are serious, I swear my family and I will join them. No question. For now, I'm getting ready. A change is coming."

Sounds like a collaborator.

These nuts will probably try it too.

[VTMechEngr]

153. Hey, I know! Give them Nevada!

Minus las Vegas.

Just think, we wouldn't loose any natural resources, and they can live in absolute isolation. And since almost every American Nuclear test has been held there, the fundies wouldn't need lights at night:evilgrin:

[Bluebear]

154. I wouldn't mind New England seceding at this point.

It's a whole 'nother world up here :)

[Bride of Cthulhu]

173. no way!!!!

I live in Reno, don't want them here . don't want to leave.

[Change has come]

189. Carson City here

and It's republican enough!

[RoyGBiv]

155. Background - Cory Burnell, League of the South

Folks, this is not new. This is simply the latest incarnation of a fanciful plan that has been the dream of various organizations established or expanded in the last ten to fifteen years. It's related to so-called "Confederate Heritage" groups like the League of the South, and the Conservative Christian Coalition.

Cory Burnell, the individual quoted in the article referenced, is himself a member of the League of the South (LOS) and is openly associated with furthering its agenda. One of his contact addresses is in fact located on the LOS servers. The LOS is an organization that has as its stated mission "peaceful" separation of the Southern states from the federal union, completing through legal maneuvers what they believe was the rightful secession of the so-called Confederate states in 1860-61. They seek a nation of racial and religious hegemony as they define it.

From their position papers:

The goal of The League of the South is the cultural, social, economic, and political independence and well-being of the Southern People. We affirm the proud legacy of our predominantly Anglo-Celtic civilization with no apology. We lay proper claim to the political vision of America's Founders, to the heroic struggle of our Confederate ancestors against "consolidated" government, and to our underlying Christian heritage.

And a quote from Cory Burnell, writing for the LOS on January 29, 2004:

Deadlines make goals effective. We must put a plan into action and set a deadline for its completion. To my knowledge, no concerted national goal has been set for an ETI (Estimated Time until Independence). The only Southern nationalist organization I have found with an ETI is the South Carolina League of the South, which, according to state director Robert Hayes, is determined to be free of the union within 20 years. I think we can move this date closer to the present with a managed emigration.

Draw your own conclusions.

Mr. Burnell is a particularly odious individual. I have had the misfortune of crossing his path on various forums concerned with historical preservation and interpretation issues. Him and people associated with his cause attempt to, and to a far too great extent, succeed in hijacking genuine historical discussion forums both online and in the larger public arena in order to advance themselves. Mr. Burnell is racist, homophobic, and a zealot of the most dangerous stripe. In accord with the LOS's more private tactical mission of advertising itself, he here has simply latched onto a current hot issue that is receiving national attention, as per his suggested tactics.

Please note that the article failed utterly to explore these connections.

You can learn more about the League of the South and Cory Burnell by googling.

[MAlibdem]

158. Someone tell the FBI and Homeland Security...

Secession is NOT allowed. The fundies/conservatives tried it once before (under the banner of the Dem Party, true) in the CSA. Well, us northern boys showed them the errors of that path.

Just because you're too damn intolerant to let people enjoy liberty doesn't mean you get to set up a country that promotes such reprehensible values.

[Delano]

159. Lincoln's biggest mistake: Not letting the confederacy stay separate!

Just think how things would be today: The US would be a prosperous liberal democracy with a fantastic standard of living a la Sweden, and the confederacy would be near-third-world apartheid state with constant strife. The most deranged of fundies could live out their armageddon fantasies there, instead of bothering us with them.

[MAlibdem]

164. Problems...

Harder to make superpower status without Dixie.

Also, the slaves would still be slaves or at least apartheid status, which is not something I would want for them.

[Delano]

166. Superpower status is irrelevant to me. Lots of great countries are not

...not superpowers. I'm not a believer in manifest destiny or the imperialism that propelled the young US to commit genocide on the native people and steal Hawaii from the Hawaiians.

[RoyGBiv]

167. And....

We likely would have been engaged in a continual border war as the CSA kept demanding return of "fugitives" while at the same time the US armed its border to the teeth to try to keep those fugitives out.

And then there's the whole precedent set of unchallenged unilateral secession. Me'thinks we'd likely not have a unified country at all like what we have now.

[DiskDefrag]

169. Nope

CSA would be FAR too busy dealing with infighting. They'd probably kill each other off eventually. Even more, in a few years (tops) they'd probably be facing a full scale slave uprising.

[Fear]

163. Terrorists, before they know they'll be locked up.......enemies of the

state,geeez, I guess we are all going to be on the same side at one point after all :S

[serryjw]

170. They decided on which states already.......

ChristianExodus.org is orchestrating the move of 50,000 or more Christians to one of three States for the express purpose of dissolving that State’s bond with the union. The three States under consideration are Alabama, Mississippi and South Carolina. The exact destination will be chosen by vote of our membership. Our move will commence when the federal government forces sodomite marriages on our local communities or once we reach the 50,000-member mark, whichever comes first.

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:br1yHsHT3QkJ:www.christianexodus.org/+&hl=en


As far as I'm concerned; they can have any of the 3 states

[ForrestGump]

172. Wherever ChristianExodus winds up, with or without white sneakers,

I volunteer to join the local Lions Club.

[Touchdown]

175. I refuse to give them ANY of our states! That's what Guyana is for!

How could you people even think of "giving" these...erm...people anything? All they do is take, destroy, and oppress. Put them on a boat (an Arc?) charge CBN for the ship and send them off to sea to find someplace else. This is obviously not their country, so "taking over" any land currently in the US is out of the question.

Give them NOTHING!

[Valerie5555]

176. I know why don't we give them IRAN and make the Ayatollahs crazy as if

the Ayatollahs weren't already crazy without anyone's help.


On edit maybe Saudi Arabia could be good too for they can behead and stone people to their heart's content.

[9215]

177. As long as we have an extradition agreement for when we

start rounding up the crooks who did this to our country.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

179. San Clemente Island is a good spot off the coast of California...

...it's where they qualify the ships in gunnery.

[Cleita]

182. Have you ever been in the middle of America?

There are so many nice states that have horrendous thunder storms and tornadoes to place these people in. They would love the rath of God stuff. Leave nice places like our island off the coast of California alone, really. I know even the places that have been ruined can be reclaimed.

[9215]

187. It's kind of like trying to find a place for nuke waste or something

There are lots of islands in the Pacifist Northwest too, but we want to keep them beautiful.

:hi:

[sofa king]

192. And again I have to say, "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out."

The best part about it is, in forty years we can go back to those ignorant fools with ZZTop's laser show and personal helicopter gear, strap everyone up, fly them over their desolate, subdued environment, land 'em straight back in Utah and tell them congratulations, that was the Rapture and you're in fucking Heaven now.

[FDRrocks]

193. Priests have advocated many different positions to thier congregation...

from world peace, to political partisanship, to pro-slavery/confederacy positions, to anti-slavery/confederacy positions., and now to this bigoted position.

These people are just another most likely marginal group of asshole christians. Small C.

This reminds me of a post I saw here about the libertarians trying to congregate in a state and take over the government there. Although I saw no talk of secession involved in that. I think it's obvious that these so-called 'Christians' would get a good taste of real wrath if they tried to secede.

[BehindTheCurtain]

194. The entire Christian right wants to leave the country?

"Christians have actively tried to return our entire land to its moral foundation for more than 20 years. We can categorically say that absolutely nothing has been achieved. "

If this is nothing acheived I'd hate to imagine their goals.


"“Conservatives” control both Houses of Congress, and Republican presidents appointed seven of the nine Supreme Court justices. Christian activists placed the right party in power, but are we now witnessing the return to moral and constitutional government that we have demanded for so long?"

Well I agree. Look at the torture and whatnot...

So again...this entire segment wants to leave the country? I hope they do. Hell, I'll donate to their cause if they can make it happen somewhere far away from here.