About PBS's Frontline program on Bush and his religious followers...

[Bullshot]

PBS re-ran their Frontline program on Bush and his discovery of Christ in his life, which in itself is noble. The intriguing part of the program concerns how he can win the presidential election just by carrying the population of people that call themselves Evangelicals. The program showed the 2000 convention audience and other scenes. The majority of these people were adamant supporters of Bush because he's "pro-life."

I wonder if there's a change in attitude toward Bush from these people. Why would a real pro-lifer make numerous calculated lies to the nation and the world in an attempt to justify attacking a virtually disarmed country and kill and maim tens of thousands of people? Why would his administration support the passage of countless policies that polarize this country politically and economically? Why would they systematically prop up puppet governments around the world in the name of corporate market share?

According to the Bible that they're so quick to put in everybody's faces, isn't the lust for money supposed to be the root of all evil?

If there isn't a change in attitude from them, then they don't really stand for what they claim to believe in.

And another thing. That religious leader who supported the president dismissed the whole debate as a politically partisan issue. Liberals can't handle religion being in the mix. By the way, he looks like Herman Munster without the makeup.

[ewagner]

1. I'm really disappointed

our Frontline last night was on Cyberterrorism.

Didn't get to see the program you mentioned.
t

[jus_the_facts]

9. go to the PBS website....

www.pbs.org

....there are links to view Frontline's programs and transcripts. :hi:

[jjmalonejr]

2. That Frontline was SCARY!

I watched it and was even more unnerved than I expected to be.

[Cocoa]

3. I think they're down on Bush for the opposite reason

I think they think he's compromised too much, and he let them down by not being more outspoken on gay marriage, and waiting too long to propose the amendment.

[Malva Zebrina]

4. Somehow the "discovery of Christ" in Bush's life does not ring true to me

He is a fraud--Bush that is-- although if one really wants to peruse all positions, it could be said also, according to Bush's actions and deliberations, that the Christ is also a fraud.

[redqueen]

11. Pfft

Yeah, right... Christ is a fraud. :eyes:

[Malva Zebrina]

13. You have failed to parse or thinkj about my statement

and see the irony. Look again and do not be so eager to knee jerk tio defend any old Christ. Especially, Bush's.

[redqueen]

15. There is only one Christ

Bu$h is a fraud? Maybe.

As for irnoy... where?

lol... any old Christ...

[Malva Zebrina]

26. I think

my comment has a meaning that you failed to see. Maybe too complicated for this thread.

But you are being too defensive of an all encompassing, universal type of Christ, believeing perhaps, that everyone sees the Christ the same as you.

Obviously, when the evidence is studied, the same Christ can be manipulated by anyone who professes to believe in this Christ and that includes Bush the born again Christ believer. He, Bush, has as much right to call himself a Christian as you.

That is the undisputed history of the Christ and his believers and any person knowledgeable of the history of Christianity, cannot deny this.

Historically this Christ can be molded to fit anyone's interpretation and those who follow believe the molded Christ from a leader.

Millions believe in Bush's Christ. Millions do not.

And if it is reduced to whose Christ is the right Christ, then obviously the religion is pretty much moot and cheapened.

You cannot say you have the right Christ, when history says that there is another Christ that does not have the same values as you

For instance--the Christ of old, actually condoned burning at the stake, witches and heretics. The same Christ was absolutely in favor of the inquisitions.

Even here in the early beginnings of this country, this same Christ, condoned the killing of witches in Salem, Massachusetts.

:shrug:

that is the recorded history and is not a figment of my imagination.

And there are believers today that would follow anything without thinking, as long as the "Christ" is invoked and has been purported to give his stamp of approval to whatever political power is indeed, in power.

He may even be invoked to approve of the slaughter in Iraq as the "sword" of Christianity can be invoked in that situation as in days long past. The "sword" and the "Christian soldier" have been continually invoked to instill a sense of "war" amongst the believers.

There is NO war that Christians need to arm themselves with "swords" in order to go to a place they think they will go to after they die.


there are also believers who would say that those "other" believers, do not have the "real" religion of this Christ.

and that is almost funny to me.

That one has the "real" religion and others do not, is actually something that the religious right is famous for spouting.

How can one determine whether they have the "real" Christ or the "real" Christianity and others who are also believers in the same Christ, do not, is actually a mystery and has not a single basis in fact at all.

All who believe in the Jesus as the Christ are actually Christians. There is no "real" or not "real" All are Christians and deserve to call themselves such. You are all in the same camp.

[patrice]

5. Answer to your questions = The Rapture

You've heard about the $ucce$$ of the "Left Behind" series of books haven't you?

None of the stuff you mentioned matters; all of this is to be expected in end-times.

The Rapture isn't even in the Bible BTW.

[redqueen]

16. I think that rapture claptrap got started in the 1800s

Not sure though.

Dogma is dangerous!

[indigobusiness]

6. Bush hasn't found Christ...he has found Santa Claus.

That was the creepiest thing I've seen in a long time.

Let this be a lesson to filmakers...you don't need blood or explosions to scare the hell out of people.

[mom cat]

28. Actually, Bush found Satan. Jesus taught love not hate

[The Shadow]

7. Trust Me On This One

There is no way that Bush can carry the election on evangelist's vote alone, they do not have the numbers in enough states to do it.

[cornermouse]

8. But, they do vote.

A LOT of the rest of us do not.

[mom cat]

10. Bush for "Anti-Christ"

Having grown up in the South, I learned a few things about fundamentalist. I think that pointing out the religious contradictions between the love that Jesus preached and the hate based faith and faith based hate of the bushies. We liberals need to to careful about declaring war on fundamentalist, but could be effective in challenging the bushie version. There is a lot in the Bible (and in other religions as well) that support our views and can be used to raise doubts in the hearts and minds of many who call themselves Christian.

[redqueen]

12. War on fundamentalists?

Did anyone suggest that?

[mom cat]

14. Unfortunately, I hear it a lot. I understand why, but verbal attacts on

fundamentalists is too common among liberals. Maybe we need liberal religious talk radio to bring religion back to center.

[redqueen]

17. I agree it's a bad idea

Liberal talk radio would be great.

The liberal Evangelist guy interviewed on Frontline last night, Jim Wallis, would be perfect. :D

[CBHagman]

18. It's interesting how they pick and choose which Scripture to preach.

When I say "they," I'm referring to a particular breed of right-wing Christian fundamentalists, the Ralph Reed types, the Jerry Falwell types.

Anyway, to listen to the afore-mentioned types, you would think that the New Testament consisted solely of condemnation of gays, support for free-market capitalism untempered by morality, and a pro-war, anti-abortion type of mind-set. Notice that Falwell, Reed and their ilk never spend time obsessing about the passages in the second chapter of James (you know, the bit where the author of the epistle harshly criticizes those who favor the rich). Notice how they don't talk about the love of money being the root of all sorts of evil, and notice how they don't like to quote the 25th chapter of the Gospel of Matthew.

It's possible to lead a more vibrant discussion with Bible-believing folks in this country. Let's not let the capitalistic claptraps-spouting pundits and demagogues masquerading as "Christian" dominate the conversation in this country. Let's call them on the carpet. If they really took the Bible seriously, they would be squirming a lot today.

[mom cat]

30. You are so right! How did they get away with using Jesus to

justify their hate. Remember when liberals of faith has more air time? King, the Berrigans etc. I personally got most of my liberal core values from the teachings of Jesus. We have a wonderful values base along with caring folk from all of the world's religions.

[El Supremo]

19. Right.

Jim Wallice said that Bush's idea that America has been anointed by God to bring freedom to the world is bad theology. We need to expound on that.

[mom cat]

27. Preach it brother! amen to peace and freedom!

[graham67]

20. I have very little religious knowledge...

so please help me here. What is an Evangelical, and what is a Fundamentalist?

[redqueen]

21. Check here

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/evangelicals/

There is also an interview page where Evangelicals discuss their belifs.

[graham67]

22. Very informative

Thanks!

[redqueen]

23. My pleasure!

:hi:

[checks-n-balances]

29. Thanks for the link! I have some more, but can you guys hang with me?

My computer is very slow tonight and I've spent at least 30 minutes finding some really good websites. But I'll need some time - maybe about 30 more. I know how quickly these threads go away because there are always more coming in all the time, but I'd like to know someone will see these by the time I post them.

If I hear from any of you or if you reply to this with your own post, I will post them.

I promise I'm not trying to brag, but I do have a theological degree and have done extensive reading on this topic, and would really like to share this stuff as an alternative to right wing Christianity (I'm a "progressive"). Just so you'll know who I am... (and not a wing-nut)

BTW, for the future, anyone know a better way to do this?

[checks-n-balances]

31. Actually, for anyone wanting more reading, here's another thread I started

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=110&topic_id=5900#

Thanks again for this discussion thread (this one, I mean, not the one I started, of course)

[BrotherBuzz]

24. Wolves in Sheep's clothing

The Despoiling of America


How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State

By Katherine Yurica
With Editorial and Research Assistant Laurie Hall

February 11, 2004


<snip>

Today, Dominionists hide their agenda and have resorted to stealth; one investigator who has engaged in internet exchanges with people who identify themselves as religious conservatives said, ÒThey cut and run if I mention the word ÔDominionism.ÕÓ<11> Joan Bokaer, the Director of Theocracy Watch, a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics and Social Policy at Cornell University wrote, ÒIn March 1986, I was on a speaking tour in Iowa and received a copy of the following memo Robertson had distributed to the Iowa Republican County Caucus titled, ÒHow to Participate in a Political Party.Ó It read:

ÒRule the world for God.
ÒGive the impression that you are there to work for the party, not push an ideology.
ÒHide your strength.
ÒDonÕt flaunt your Christianity.
ÒChristians need to take leadership positions. Party officers control political parties and so it is very important that mature Christians have a majority of leadership positions whenever possible, Godwilling.Ó<12>
<more>

http://yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

[librechik]

25. He's losing some because of the immigration thing

his cult followers are notoriously racist and xenophobic. In general they would do anything for their god, under the delusion that it's not Satan.