Bill Cosby and the slave mind....

[liberalitch]

I am a teacher, I love all of my kids.... all I want is for them to lead long, healthy, happy, productive lives. Let me say that first before I get flamed.

any of you guys ever read the autobiography of Malcolm X?

What Cosby was preaching about was what Malcolm X saying would be the utter downfall of Black society..... THE SLAVE MIND.

In 1965 the slave mind was what Malcolm believed that black folks exhibited that made them want to be white and not Black... "conking" (Straightening) their hair, getting tracks, women wearing immodest clothing, black men participating in crime or dating white women because it gives them status, not focusing on education when it came from the hand of whites.... this anti-intellectualism is just what the "masters" wanted.

In 2004, I believe that Cosby helped lay out what Malcolm would define the slave mind as today:
Let's face it.... Hip hop has completely lost its sense of responsibility and has become a means to propagate the slave mind.
What is the focus? Even Chris Rock said these guys are taking themselves too seriously.
If you don't have money, drugs, an expensive car, a gun, a hot temper, sleep around with women who have no modesty or self-esteem.... then you a punk ass bitch.
My black kids who are NOT totally immersed in the BET/ Hip Hop culture are better students, have better home lives (no matter what the juxtaposition of the family) and seem happier over all.
Those who are immersed suffer because they have bought the "line" hook, line and sinker... They want to hurt people by preying on them. I worry about their safety, their health (aids), self image, and future happiness constantly.
Cosby just wants them to come off the plantation....
Remember not too long ago Jessie Jackson said he knew there were problems when he heard a bunch of kids behind him on the street one night and was relieved to see they were white kids.

[judge_smales]

1. I'm gonna get flamed no doubt,

but I think Cosby was dead on, 100% right.

[liberalitch]

2. Those flames won't come from me...

I see it everyday....

[CatWoman]

3. I agree

I saw the other Cosby thread, and chose not to respond in it.

I think people are taking his comments the wrong way -- but I more than agree with them.

[JI7]

4. it's what he has always been saying also

and cosby is a democrat.

[9215]

36. Me too. nt

[rangerfan]

5. I agree also.

I'm glad to see someone has stepped forward to express what has been painfully obvious the last few years. I carries more weight with Cosby saying it, it never would be accepted from a white person.

[Servo300]

30. if a white person said

he would be called a racist.

[jayavarman]

6. Cosby was trying to speak the truth

I think pretty much everyone my age or younger (well, at least everyone my age who was a kid in the 70s) respects Bill Cosby. I think he was trying to speak some truth to folks. All kids, regardless of race, are better served being 'hooked on phonics' than 'hooked on pop-culture'

[Cheswick2.0]

7. of course Cosby is right

But there were some on that other thread who seem to want to use his words to claim there is no institutional or personal racism and that kids DO deserve to be shot in the head for stealing a pound cake. That is not true either.
I think what Cosby was saying and what you are saying is "Make a better choice. Don't expect the world to be fair. Don't set yourself up. When you make a stupid choice don't act like a victim. Make your way ethically despite racism".

[JI7]

9. right

he is a democrat. if he thought they deserved to be shot for it then he would easily be a republican. but his was more about personal choices and responsibility. and it's what he has been saying for years.

[BurtWorm]

11. KRS1 was saying something similar on Unfiltered earlier this week.

He was talking about Hip-Hop culture values being radically different from corporate rap values. This is kind of like what Cosby seems to have been saying, but without the bourgeois judgmentalism Cosby threw into his message.

[sangh0]

14. Do you think it might be possible

that the "bourgeois judgmentalism Cosby threw into his message" is the result of WorldNetDaily's biased coverage, and not the result of what Cosby actually said? After all, the right-wing media does have a history of distortion.

[qanda]

8. Well, somebody *had* to say it!

eom

[Loonman]

10. Cosby was right

He is a very smart guy, and he knows what he is talking about.

[TO Kid]

12. I've always had loads of respect for Cosby

Ever since his "Noah" bit then I learned that he was also not only funny but really smart (I've since realized that the funniest people ARE the smartest), and this just reinforces my opinion of him.

I've also seen that attitude outside of the black community, here it's known as "ghetto mentality" or "welfare mindset". The biggest obstacle to success for kids in poorer neighbourhoods is the fact that those who try to achieve something get shunned and bullied by their peers. It has little to do with race and a lot to do with class. I've also noticed that the trend is far less prevalent among the working poor and most noticeable among welfare families in public housing, where the concentration of welfare poor reinforces a culture of dependency.

[rumguy]

13. The best of the hip-hop world are good examples for the kids...

Just from among the current crop:

Jay-Z

Outkast

DMX

Nas

Eminem

They all have talent and have stories to tell.

[CatWoman]

15. I heard that R. Kelly was illiterate

and had to have others write down his songs.

[Susang]

26. Eminem is a good example for the kids?

Multiple counts of spousal abuse, weapons charges, assault and battery charges, parole violations, yup, that's what I want my kids to grow up like! :eyes:

[rumguy]

29. I'd be damn proud if my kids had the good taste to listen to Eminem

I'm talking kids 13 years and up.

The only criminal incident in his past is him threatening a bouncer with a gun...one that wasn't even loaded.

[truizm]

32. Possibly Nas and Outkast, but no on the rest.

Immortal Technique, Q-Tip, Jeru, RZA, and Talib Kweli are the "best of the hip-hop world." They are great examples for kids.

[rumguy]

33. Chomsky and Eminem are teaming up for Em's new album

They're gonna rap together.

Here an article on why Eminem matters: http://www.guerrillanews.com/media/doc679.html

[DrWeird]

16. You've got it completely backwards.

The Slave mind is wanting to act like white people, like you said, the straightening of the hair.

What Cosby wants is for black people to stop talking in AAVE. It would be better if they all talked like white people. He also supports the idea that AAVE is anti-intellectual. And stop listening to black music, because that causes bad grades. He also supports the idea that AAVE is antiintellectual.

:eyes:

Malcolm X is rolling over in his grave.

[theboss]

17. Malcolm X was not in favor of Anti-Intellectualism and Materialism

That's what Cosby sees in the hip-hop culture and what he is speaking against.

[sangh0]

18. and embracing consumerism

is part of the attempt to be white. Also, Cosby's remarks were not limited to Ebonics. That's WorldNetDaily's spin, and I'd suggest you not accept their right-wing spin

[playahata1]

19. In that case,

Cosby means we should stop listening to not only hip-hop, but also:

JAZZ, R&B, GOSPEL, SPIRITUALS, REGGAE, SOUL, BLUES, AND OTHER AFRICAN-BASED MUSIC. What the hell is his problem?

[Shakespeare]

20. Cosby doesn't mean anything remotely like that.

And considering what a huge fan he is of jazz and R&B...that's really funny.

[theboss]

21. Are those forms anti-intellectual and based on materialism?

Actually hip-hop did not start out this way. Chuck D used to call it Black America's CNN. I don't really know what you can learn from it these days aside from names of champagnes and luxury SUVs.

And I know I sound like an old fogey, but I used to love hip-hop and still get excited when something interesting comes along - like Outkast or Eminem. But largely, it does seem to be nothing more than "get paid anyway you can."

[playahata1]

23. I agree with you on the hip-hop.

What little hip-hop I listen to nowadays, I lean toward OutKast and Eminem and Jay-Z and Nas and Kanye West. I will say this, though: the Cosby controversy is yet another manifestation of the class/cultural divide within black America, which grows wider and wider each day. It has been going on ever since slavery, from the whole "house Negro" vs. "field Negro" thing, to the debates between Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. DuBois, to the debates between Langston Hughes and George Schuyler over what is black art, to Zora Neale Hurston and Richard Wright -- or James Baldwin and Ralph Ellison -- arguing over how black people should be portrayed in literature. In other words, we are still arguing over what it means to be black in America.

I do think that Cos protesteth a little too much. I wear Air Jordans, have owned several pairs, plus a couple of Jumpman caps and a sweatsuit or two. And I don't have a problem with having a little gold on me. But that does not make me "ignorant" or "ghetto." Hell, I have a doctorate and I am trying to use it. Besides, I paid for those sneakers with my hard-earned money. Moreover, I do not wear these things to make me feel better about myself as a black person, and I sure as hell do not define myself by these things. Peace.

[ArkDem]

24. Methinks he is talking about staying within your means not

sneakers.

[troublemaker]

38. Black America's CNN can still be anti-intellectual

[ArkDem]

25. Yeah, that gansta gospel is terrible.

.

[judge_smales]

22. You must have read a different article.

Got a link to the one you read?

[Brewman_Jax]

27. I should pass on this, but...

I normally steer away from these threads, but watching DU'ers agree with freepers is too much.

All things being equal, he would be correct. This ain't The Federation--not even close. Why are the powerless in society always being held responsible for its problems? They didn't cause them, if anything, problems of society make their lives harder. And you should be ashamed for falling into the trap.

That's the same coded rhetoric that the republicans have used since they created their "Southern Strategy." Updated to include welfare queens, Willie Horton, and now, gangsta rap.

Nothing makes the pseudo-liberals (and freepers) feel better than having a black person say that black people have caused all of black peoples' problems--history be damned. Did the rotten history up to the Brown vs. Board of Education somehow disappear?

Bill Cosby was widely criticized for his lukewarm and non-confrontational stance on civil rights thru' the civil rights movement. He has championed causes later on, but he has his own skeletons, see Gene Kane's column at http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/230619.asp

Not to mention the double standard. Black people are "like that," the smart/good ones are the exception. For white people, it's just those FEW messed up white people. ALL white people aren't held to account for the acts of the fucked-up few, but ALL black people are. Don't think so? See the above posts.

Tim Wise wrote an article on the myth of black anti-intellectualism, found at www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2002-11/26wise.cfm. "When kids from lower-income families—who are disproportionately of color—correctly answer all math questions on a standardized test, they are no more likely to be placed in advanced or college tracks than children from upper-income families who missed a fourth of the questions, and they are 26% less likely to be placed in advanced tracks than upper-income persons with comparably perfect scores. Even the President of the College Board has acknowledged that black 8th graders with test scores comparable to whites are disproportionately placed in remedial high school classes." Why is this? Black kids do well, and they still can't get a break.

A side note on the history of rap: in the 80's no one cared about it, as long as stayed in the black neighborhoods. When the white neighborhoods started to listen to rap, then there was a problem. The outcry about the evils of rap music. Why were the black kids of lesser value?

Any longer and no one will read this. Flame away.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. Way to miss the point.

And way to totally misconstrue everything that's being said here. Yes, let's bring out the liberaler-than-thou boogeyman and ignore all of the people with experience in dealing with these problems.

>Nothing makes the pseudo-liberals (and freepers) feel better than
>having a black person say that black people have caused all of black
>peoples' problems--history be damned.

And nothing makes people like you feel better than to talk down to us stupid idiots.

I meet people like this all the time in San Francisco, and let me tell you one thing: The people, be they white or black, who actually go into the Bayshore and Hunters Point and Visitacion Valley to DO THE WORK of helping build communities, they sound a hell of a lot like Cosby. The white "liberals" who never venture forth from their enclaves in Noe Valley or Cow Hollow sound a lot like you.

>Not to mention the double standard. Black people are "like that,"
>the smart/good ones are the exception.

Now point me to one damn example in this thread of anyone saying anything remotely like that. Nobody here is denying that racism exists, but it's just damned foolish to say that none of the problems of the black community are their own fault. It's foolish to say that of *any* community.

>When the white neighborhoods started to listen to rap, then there >was a problem.

Speaking as someone who's listened to hip-hop for years, I would humbly submit that white people started listening to it just around the time when it lost a lot of its creativity and ideas about social responsibility. Whether or not that's coincidence or cause-and-effect is probably another thread.

Oh, and by the way, black anti-intellectualism IS a myth. I've seen it in poor white communities, too, including the one where I grew up. I'd submit that it's more an economic and less a race issue. The causes may differ in the details, but the net effect is exactly the same.

Edit: spelling

[Tomee450]

34. I strongly agree with the

poster to whom you are responding and ask why your anger. I agree with him that when a black person criticizes his community, certain people come out of the wood work to eagerly agree. Some of these people couldn't care less about the black community but they love to join in the attacks. Cosby made some good points but things are not always as simple as he seems to think. The problems of the black community are many and are complex.
I am somewhat surprised at Cosby. Black people sometimes speak poorly because of the schools they have attendend. I would also say that the word "liberal" is not a dirty word. Many of us liberals work very hard to improve the lot of black people and others we see in need.

[Brewman_Jax]

37. Did you actually read the article on Cosby's statement?

I was referencing Cosby's statement about low-income people buying $500 shoes. If you actually met any, they are figuring out how to make money keeping the kids fed, the lights on, and keep from being evicted. That crap about spending on non-essentials is spewed by neo-cons. I've actually met/been low-income. I can tell you haven't.

As for the history of neighborhoods, one of the segments of Race: The Power of an Illusion on PBS covers the rise of the suburbs, redlining and the ghettoization of black neighborhoods. Businesses left, insurance rates rose, banks refused to lend to those areas. When an area is economically starved, then it will wither and collapse. The governments (municipal, state, federal) turned a blind eye. The residents are stuck with it. That was an eye-opener for me.

Do the residents bear reponsibility? Of course, but they aren't playing on a fair field. That point I want to make clear. These people need a society that will help, not just cast them aside.

Again you miss the point about rap. I'm not commenting on the quality, but the timing. Rap was available in my neighborhood (in the late 70's, metro Atlanta) for about 7 years before the Congressional hearings on music. It didn't reach the ritzy zipcodes 'til the early 80's. That time lag is what I'm talking about.

As for "talking down" to you, it doesn't make feel better. It makes me mad. Mad that in the 21th century, race is going to be an issue for a long, long time. Everyone wants to make it economic issues. Economics is not the only factor here. There's a lot of history of how these things happen.

[Tomee450]

31. Thanks

I couldn't agree with you more. I also believe that black anti-intellectualism is a myth. Cosby speaks of blacks speaking poor English. It maybe that they were never taught to speak properly. I know black high=school graduates who say "axe" instead of ask and use they when the proper word should be their, as in "their books." Those students must have had some pretty poor teachers,imo.

[MaryBear]

35. It's a matter of being bi-cultural and

bilingual. When standard English is needed and not known, a natural defense might be the denigration of standard English and the education that facilitates it. This seems true across racial groups. What Cosby is saying, and has for a long time, is that education and belief in one's ability is what is important -- not getting stuck in anti-intellectualism and being a victim. Getting out of poverty is not easy, for anyone. It is like trying to have a foot on one planet while walking on another.