Bush* didn't lie, DAMNIT!

[Walt Starr]

Bush* is too stupid to lie. Instead, Bush* and his minions were criminally incompetent. They allowed pertinent intelligence about a nuclear threat to sit in the "bowels of the CIA" for more than a year. This is serious, folks! How much information about the nuclear threat posed by North Korea is sitting in the "bowels of the CIA" right now??? This is a serious threat to national security because an incompetent administration doesn't know how to deal with intelligence reports!!!

We know dots were not connected leading up to 9/11, and that incompetence had DISASTROUS results! How many terrorists are known to be preparing an attack right now and the only reason nobody is doing anything about it is because the information is sitting somewhere in the "bowels of the CIA"???

For the good of the country and in the interest of national security, and administration this incompetenet should do the right thing and RESIGN!

[wellstone_democrat]

1. As usual Walt

I'm with you. I do believe that they made it clear to their underlings that they were not interested in exculpatory evidence in the matter of Iraq or any of their schemes, but ultimately the hallmark of this administration is incompetence.

[ShaneGR]

2. I think you are right, this is the end game

Proving lying is difficult, proving incompetance is a whole other thing.

[Walt Starr]

4. We don't even have to PROVE incompetence

Simply pull the statements from Bush*, Powell, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice, and Fleischer together.

THESE FUCKING MORONS HAVE ADMITTED TO INCOMPETENCE AND THEY ARE TOO INCOMPETENT TO REALIZE IT!!!!!

[caledesi]

3. You go Walt! Take my pResident please!

[Phoenixtongueof fire]

5. Yeah, right.......

Those horse's asses wouldn't resign if they were caught with their hands on the knife shoved in Hillary's gut. The wouldn't resign if they were caught screwing each other in the middle of a freeway during rush hour. No matter what you catch them doing, they willl never resign. never, never , never You will have to pry their cold dead hands off the "power" button.
Thinking that any of them would resign is wishful thinking and totally unrealistic. Dream on

[Walt Starr]

6. Dude, the call to resign was a play on the words used by the right

when Clinton was facing impeachment.

Very few people around here get my dry sense of humor, so don't worry. :evilgrin:

This is the angle that needs to be played because we don't have to prove anything. Just take their own words and use those. Don't even suggest Bush* lied (it's hard to prove unless we come up with a smoking gun), just play the incompetence angle. They've admitted to incompetence.

[Phoenixtongueof fire]

19. Sorry fella..........

I wasn't aquainted with your modus operandi
I don't read every message posted on the DU forum
my bad
and your sarcasm didn't show through

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Stupid Question

Can the SCOTUS repeal a ruling?

Since W was selected, not elected, then the rules of removing an elected president don't necessarily apply?

[Walt Starr]

8. The Felonious Five left an out to stop that from happening

The SCOTUS cannot repeal a ruling, they can only overturn a ruling in another ruling.

This can never happen with Bush V. Gore because the criminals made certain that the decision would not be used as precedence, ergo, it can never be overturned.

In other words, unlike other decisions, nobody can take another election case before a different SCOTUS predicated upon the precedent of Bush V. Gore and have another SCOTUS overturn this decision. The Felonious Five insured that Bush V. Gore would stand for all time by taking the unprecedented course of action of deliberately excluding the decision from ever being used as precedent in any other case, thus insuring the legacy that a Bush* adminsitration is somehow "legitimate".

[symbolman]

9. I'll take either path

Impeachment for lying is best because you KNOW he won't step down..

but this will work if you say it 5 times and make others do the same..

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/howtoimpeach.html

[JackSwift]

10. I disagree

Bush lied and knew he lied and will do it again if it pleases him. He knows that he can get away with it.

[Walt Starr]

11. Just look at my argument, please

Bush was incompetenet and ADMITTED he was incompetent and won't get away with it because nobody wants an incompetent buffoon running the country!

[Cascadian]

12. A lie is a lie.

And I believe that they did both. They were criminally incompetent and lied. The lie is more damning and damaging than Clinton lying about his escapades with Monica Lewinsky. Plain and simple!


John

[Walt Starr]

13. Before the lying angle can be pushed

we must be 100% capable of proving they lied. Until that point they have plausible deniability just like with 9/11.

The incompetence angle, however, can be pushed immediately as the assholes have admitted to incomptency. Take the ball when it's handed to you by the opposition and run for the end zone. If you only make it far enough to get a field goal, 3 points is still 3 points. Trying to thro a hail mary pass right now would be foolish.

And take heart, some member of the opposition may trip up the rest and we end up with a touchdown before the play is over!

[TankLV]

14. Sorry Walt.

Bunker boy claimed, repeatedly, that something was true and it wasn't.

THAT'S the lie. Pure and simple. Many have pointed it out. Even BUKERBOY's people pointed it out in admitting it was false.

LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE!

[Walt Starr]

15. The claim is, they didn't know it was false when they used it in the SOTU

That's their plausible deniability, and until you can prove they DID KNOW it was false when it was included in the SOTU, it's not a lie.

The admission and everything that goes with it, however, IS AN ADMISSION OF INCOMPETENCE! That tells ya, the lie is so big and so deep that it covers up some pretty horrific shit. I'm not saying don't go looking for that horrific shit. I'm saying we can effectively hand them out to dry by screaming at the top of our lungs, "INCOMPTENCE INCOMPETENCE INCOMPETENCE!!!!!" That still does incredible damage and the fools admitted to incompetence in order to cover up the lie. Once we uncover the smoking guns to prove they knowingly lied (and the other horrific shit they are covering up), we can then shout at the top of our lungs, "LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE!!!!!"

And the really cool part about the whole thing is gthey gave us the ammunition to hammer them with relentlessly until we can dig up the really BIG GUNS!

[TankLV]

18. If you repeat something that everyone but you knows to be a lie, that is

a lie. It doesn't matter what YOU yourself believe is true. If you were told it was a lie, and the garbage you used as proof is a lie, then you lied. There is no way around it.

Although I can see your argument, I don't see it as valid. You can't use that in your classroom to a professor, to your parents when caught in the lie, or in a court of law. Ignorance and claiming ignorance ("of the law", or whatever) holds no water. Otherwise, criminals would have a field day in courts all over the globe.

When you claim as facts lies or facts that don't exist, it doesn't matter what your claims are as to if you believed your own lies.

A lie is a lie. Period.

[Cascadian]

16. Reminds me of an 80's tune....

"LIES LIES LIES YEAH...." Thompson Twins

John

[ChillEB]

17. ChillEB's Prognostication ... Plan "D", if you will...

The * administration is quickly finding its little house of cards falling all around them. Plans A (al qaeda), B (WMD) and C ('liberation') are all shot to shit. These guys are down, but don't misunderestimate and count them out just yet.

They have a very viable Plan "D" available, and my forecast is that we will all be seeing it soon.

The novel thing about this particular plan is that it actually involves "telling the truth" (which may be very difficult for these assholes to do, simply on principle) to the people of the USA and the World.

I believe it will unfold thusly:

Some organization that sounds very official (but is actually ad-hoc and assembled (by bushco) for the sole purpose at hand), or some news outlet, is going to release a report forecasting an extremely dire scenario wherein the world will begin to run out of fossil fuels in the not-to-distant future (say, 5-10 years). It will be very graphic and extremely frightening for the average American, who has zero grasp of economics, physics, chemistry, or basic thermodynamics. The US public simply have NO IDEA how absolutely HUGELY dependent we are oil and other fossil fuels to maintain our standard of living. Nor do most realize that there are literally NO alternatives on the immediate horizon, and it is entirely possible that none even EXIST.

In this report, heavy emphasis will be placed on three important facts:
1) The USA is not capable of producing anywhere NEAR the amount of fossil fuels we need to sustain our standard of living in the US.
2) when the world's oil starts to run out, the standard of living in the USA is going to very suddenly, rapidly, and in all likelihood PERMANENTLY DECLINE, and
3) America will become VERY vulnerable (economically and militarily) if we do not have all the fossil fuels that we need to run our military and our economy.

As I said, the odd thing (for this lying gang of thugs) is that this report will largely be factual. I don't see 'naysayers' getting much traction in trying to debunk the report's conclusions. Basically, people are going to buy what this report has to say, if for no other reason, because nobody is going to refute it's content. I imagine that the PNAC folks will be able to arrange an oil shortage/large gas price hike right about the time of the reports release as well, just to seal the deal.

The report will be WIDELY reported and discussed ad nauseum by the TV news and the rest of the right-wing media. It will ALSO be covered extensively by (whats left of) the 'liberal' media, because it will suit our agenda just as much as it does Bush's.

You see, it is critical for bushco that this frightening report be embossed on our collective conscience. Why? Because * is soon to realize that the truth is the only way out of the corner that he and the lying neocons have painted themselves into. * is being left with few options, aside from the truth: we went to war, killed and were killed, for OIL. PERIOD.

The only way he can admit it publically at this point is by frightening American's into accepting the idea that going to war for oil is actually the 'right' thing to do, based on the circumstances. Most folk do not currently realize what is going to happen when the oil runs out. They have no clue how ugly it is going to get for the entire world. I guarantee that bushco will soon see to it that Mr. & Mrs. USA Sixpack are made WELL AWARE of just how ugly it will be, and just how bad their lifes are going to suck if the USA doesn't secure it's supply long into the future.

As an aside, I suspect just such a report has been sitting on *'s desk for quite some time, only to come out as a Plan D if A-C fail. There are powerful interests who do NOT want the public to know what is in store for us if we recklessly burn through the worlds resources. The energy industry, the auto (and auto racing) industry, and the aviation industry are the first to come to mind. These, and certainly many other, industries absolutely DO NOT want Americans to slow down the pace on their consumption of fossil fuels just because we are afraid that the world will run out. It would be very costly for them, and these folks have the governments ear in a big way. But they are not going to get their way when the * brigade's entire collective career is on the line, as it is now. * will not be able to protect their interests if he is impeached, so they are just gonna have to 'understand' why certain things need to be done, that's all there is to it.

This is my prediction. Remember where you heard it first: ChillEB, the prognosticator!