I'm gonna get killed for this, but I'd like to mention Bergs beard.

[trumad]

I know, I know, white chair, orange jump suit, etc... But the first thing I ever noticed out of all this is the way his beard was cut and groomed. I'm not really an expert on beards but damn, it looks very similar to the way some Muslims groom their own beards...

Here's Berg:


Here's Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed Al-Nasser


Here's ANAS AL-LIBY


and here's AL-ZAWAHIRI

[oldhat]

1. SPE

Abe Lincoln had a beard. Therefore he is al Qaeda.

Stupidest. Post. Ever.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trumad]

21. Now you're calling me a retard...

Edited .... Fuck it...

[JVS]

24. Do they still do that 30 warnings thing?

[trof]

25. Hey tru

Chill man.
It's a newbie.
I don't want to lose you.

[trumad]

29. I'm on 70

[trof]

34. bwaahaahaahaahaa

Thanks.
Best laugh I've had in about a week.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trumad]

27. Did I say he was Al Queda?

Dude... I try very very hard not to debate amateurs. You'll either learn that all is not what it appears to be or you'll glide through life blissfully ignorant. Your choice!

[oldhat]

28. Take a guess

Do you think we're all fools? First you post a picture of Berg with a beard. Then you say it's a lot like al Qaeda beards. Then you post four pictures of al Qaeda.

Are you regretting making a complete ass of yourself and is that why you're trying to back out of your previous statements?

[trumad]

40. Let me ask you something? Now answer me honestly.

You do know that the Iraqi police arrested Berg? You do know that don't you? You know why? Come on smarty pants,,,do you know why... I'll let Dan Senor, spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad tell you why...
""My understanding is that they suspected that he was engaged in suspicious activity," Senor told a news conference.

OK.so that's number one....

Number two: Have you read reports that Berg <snip>was investigated by the FBI in 2002 after an e-mail address traced to him was used by an unidentified person believed acquainted with Zacarias Moussaoui (search), an Al Qaeda adherent now in federal custody and awaiting trial on conspiracy charges stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks.<end snip>
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119999,00.html

In the same article it quotes John Ashcroft, saying that theres no link... Sure John whatever you say...

So..you diss me for having asking why this dudes beard is groomed like know terrorists but you bring nothing to prove that I am wrong and you are right except the word of your good buddy, John Ashcroft.

[oldhat]

42. Answer you?

Answer you honestly? OK I will.

I think the plastic white chair was in on the conspiracy. The plastic white American al Qaeda chair that was fat and was wearing gold rings and sneakers obviously murdered Berg.

[oldhat]

45. The chair

The plastic white chair had American body language, not Middle eastern body language. I could tell from the grainy out of focus video that the plastic white chair was American.

Even though I don't speak Arabic, I could tell immediately that the chair was speaking the wrong Arabic dialect.

The chair did it. The chair and the CIA murdered Berg.

Along with the painted walls.

And the runner.

[charlie]

60. Okay

The chair joke was a kneeslapper the first 800 times, but it's getting a little wilted. You need to put it away for a while, preferably in a cool dark place where it won't rot. Wait maybe a week, spring it again, and you'll have us rollicking. Timing is very important in comedy.

[trumad]

51. You can't fucking answer me can you

You're taking what John fucking Ashcroft says at face value. You've called me retarded, You've proclaimed this the stupidest post ever but yet you bring nothing... nothing but your belief in John Ashcroft, George Bush and Donny Rumsfeld. You believe everything at face value because it's comfortable. Comfortable because it means that your tunnel visioned mine does not have to think past what you're told on TV. It's guys like you who are a danger to this Country because of the ease that you swallow state sponsored propaganda. Now run off before you miss Bill O'Reilly.

[SoCalDem]

31. Japanese troops were advised by their GOVT to grow beards

to "blend in"..(silly, but the beard part was right on..)

When in Rome......

[foreigncorrespondent]

38. Hmmm!

Fine one to be talking about respect.

You're retarded. You realize that, right?

[CatWoman]

47. How DARE you call Trumad retarded!!!!!

To be perfectly honest (and sane), I believe he has a point here.

[trumad]

54. I knew you'd be along..

I'll get you later my little pretty.

[CatWoman]

62. heh

you know I've got your back

:D

[arcane1]

8. there may be a tie for that honor

:eyes:

[trof]

15. At least!

;-)

[trof]

You're new here.

And welcome.
However, I'd suggest you haven't been around long enough to judge:
Stupidest. Post. Ever.

I've seen a lot more stupid.
Although some discussions can get pretty heated, we try not to check our manners and courtesy at the door.
Just a little unasked for advice.

[treepig]

32. really, all those beard pictures are photo-shopped

here's what abe really looked like:



http://www.imahero.com/photos/abelincoln5_big.html

[hippiegranny]

59. no, it's not

but possibly yours is up there.

[bigwillq]

67. Hey, I thought that about Berg too

It could happen. He could've been mistaken. But I know I know after they made him talk, then they should've figured out he was American. Oh well.

[tom_paine]

2. What's your point? I don't understand.

Not trying to ridicule. But what do you think it means?

[Walt Starr]

7. I think it just piles yet another anomolous thing unrelated to anything

else on top of a pile of other anomolous crap that just sorta makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

By itslef, its' nothing. Adding everything together, there is some seriously weird shit going on with the Berg murder. The weirdest shit of all, how the fuck does somebody have the stomach to saw off another dude's head?

[Dookus]

13. But the problem is

that a position consisting of 10 debunked arguments is no more powerful than a position consisting of 1 debunked argument.

White chairs, gold jewelry, bodyfat composition, sneakers... they're NOT anomalies. Pretending that added together, they all mean something is logically unsound when each individual item has been shown to be false.

It's the same exact type of thinking that right-wingers use to convince themselves that Bill Clinton is a serial rapist or that Hillary murdered Vince Foster.

[tom_paine]

22. Well, Walt, the answer to that last question is obvious

They are human beings.

Look at the news every day. I'm sorry to say there are PLENTY of human beings in any nation who could do that with ease.

[Wetzelbill]

61. I could barely watch it, man that was awful

[BlueEyedSon]

3. He was a civilian (on his own, no mercs) looking for work....

maybe he was trying to be inconspicuous and blend in for safety. Assuming it's really Berg in the video...

[Tracer]

4. Well, I dunno about the beard, but ...

... the photo I've seen of the pre-Iraq Berg and the photos of him in the jump suit don't even look like the same guy.

[0007]

49. You got that right, and the White Chair, the Yellow Walls, and lack blood

during execution, along with a motionless body is highly suspect. We do know for sure of the plant, trolls and freepers that has been roaming these boards trying to disrupt any common logic, such as old hat.

[Kira]

5. The Chicago Trib

had an article about him a couple of days ago. They interviewed his friends that he made in Iraq. They said he walked around in jeans and a muscle t shirt because that is what he liked but he grew a beard like the Iraqi men in sort of a tribute to them and where he was.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spinzonner]

9. I believe its already been discussed and reported

that he had some sympathy and relationships with the Iraq situation and family.

And he may have been trying to blend in both for cultural and security reasons.

So, it's not clear what you're intimating.

[goodhue]

58. exactly n/t

[NNN0LHI]

10. If I were going to Iraq I would be wearing a beard when I got there n/t

[qanda]

11. I'm glad *you* said it and not me, but...

It was absolutely the first thing that I noticed. I asked my husband this morning if he thought Nick Berg was trying to pass himself off as an Arab. It's understandable if he was, but the problem that I have is that if he was taken in early April and then killed in May, why was he groomed so well?

I know some of these questions seem a little over the top, but just know you're not the only one thinking them.

On Edit: Left out word

[kentuck]

12. Interesting point.....

File right after "antennae" and just before "chair"... :)

[trumad]

14. I'm fucking proud of my tin foil hat

I keep it close by.... I've seen more tin foil shit turn true the last couple of years that I know not to discount anything...

[trumad]

19. BTW: for those wanting to know why the posts up above were removed

I was telling the the first poster in the thread a few things... Just thought I'd let you know!

[trof]

20. You hang on to that Reynold's Wrap!

Never know when it'll come in handy.
;-)

[Jose Diablo]

65. Still got mine

:tinfoilhat:

[meow mix]

16. its something thats been nagging on me too =)

thanks for the pics

[PotatoBoy]

18. I dunno...

I dunno, but let me say that the still photos from the video look nothing like photos of him before. Does anyone know where to find high quality photos of Nick, pre-Iraq, and when he was captured? Check out his nose and chin..compare those two facial features, as they're very distinctive on him. He's a wide-faced guy.

[ArkDem]

23. Looks like they removed Berg's eyes.

.

[chookie]

30. You're absolutely right about the beard

I brought this detail up a couple of days ago. The beard that the tragic Mr Berg sports is in fact a style one finds popularly on Muslim men in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

I believe he adopted this style in order to "fit in" as he travelled around Iraq. It was a smart thing to do.

You'd never know by the ridicule you are receiving here that growing such a beard has also been adopted by Karzai's American guards in Afghanistan. They too find that it is prudent and respectful to attempt an appearance and dress similar to the people of the area.

[BigMcLargehuge]

33. another comparison

Here's Berg



and Here's ZZ Top

[trof]

OK, McL. Second biggest laugh I've had on this thread.

thanks

[quinnox]

36. lol - I hope you aren't suggesting ZZ Top is al-Queda

heheh

[trumad]

44. Snarf...

They are from Texas.

[TrogL]

35. Easier to fit in with a beard

It's pretty much the law around there if I understand correctly.

[QC]

37. Berg has no mustache--looks more Amish than Muslim to me.

Not that I'm implying he was Amish or anything.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trumad]

41. Look..if you're going to call me stupid, spell the fucking word right.

before she edits she spelled it "stoopid".

[w13rd0]

48. What I find even more remarkable...

...is that you intially spelt stoopid korrectly. And one poster is not an indication of the totality of the membership here. But you should know that there are more questions raised than answered about Bergs murder, just as is the case with everything else even remotely affiliated with the most secretive, corrupt administration EVER.

[w13rd0]

43. He was in Iraq...

...it's quite likely that he grew it to "blend in" and not look out of place. It's certainly easier to shave a beard with a trimmer than it is to do a wet shave daily.

[K8-EEE]

55. If I Was In Iraq I Wouldn't Be Wearing What I Have On Now

I'd be wearing a freaking veil and trying not to call attention to myself.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maddezmom]

52. LOL, lots of new folks around here today

stick around...;)

Although, I don't agree with your assessment of the OP.

[maddezmom]

56. ROFLMAO...couldn't even stick around longer than it took me to post

hehehe

[0007]

57. Huh?

Where'd you come from? I mean where have you been? Never mind I don't want to hear it!!

[maddezmom]

63. not to worry, it's gone

;)

[Rogue GA]

50. Let's see

He was in Iraq. He wanted to blend in. He grew a beard.

End of explanation.

[trumad]

53. I agree to a point

except when you throw in the FBI investigation and his arrest by the Iraqi police, it does make you think out of the box.

[truebrit71]

64. Never mind the beard (which looks kinda weird) but look at his hairline...

In pictures of Berg prior to going to Iraq his head was shaven but you could clearly see the hairline...In the "close-ups" (such as they are) the fella in the video has a DIFFERENT hairline....

How the hell does that happen?? Hair grows back sure enough, but HAIRLINES don't....it would put the propecia guys out of business in a heart-beat if it did...

And as a side note, it never ceases to amaze me at the number of Ostriches that lurk here at DU....Sure an American Jew can just wander aimlessly around Iraq during a war...sure he gets detained by the Iraqi's, only it WASN'T the Iraqi's it was the US..and sure he gets 'interviewed' by the FBI THREE TIMES (!!!) while he is purportedly NOT in US custody...and sure he just happens to wind up wearing an orange jumpsuit in a terrorist lair that was cunningly painted to look JUST like the inside of Abi-Abgraib prison (sp), and sure he just happens to get executed by a bunch of terrorists that are wearing jewelry, sneakers, and have whiter hands than a redneck in a blizzard, and sure the leader of those five evil-doers has not only re-grown his amputated leg but has come back from the dead to speak in a language that isn't his own native tongue with the wrong accent...and sure the tape is authentic even if the time stamp changes more frequently than a Vegas stripper on a saturday night..

Yeah..sure..totally legit..nothing to see here people..move along....




I'm sorry...but WHO is the retard???

Certainly not Trumad....

[scottxyz]

70. If we're talking of All-Time Best or Worst Posts or Posters

I would just mention that I've seen the name 'trumad' on a LOT of excellent posts over the months (or is it years now?) I've been on DU.

And this post by 'truebrit71' is also right-on I would say. The video is obviously "real" - it's an invitation to watch a beheading - but the statements ABOUT the video are anyone's guess - whether they're statements made by people on DU or by people from the CIA.

What would be "stupid" would be to automatically accept interpretations about the time, place, and people in the video just on the CIA's say-so, given its shoddy record at intepreting intelligence.

As we're starting to notice more and more lately, the (centralized, hierarchical) structure of the CIA often puts it at a DISADVANTAGE when it comes to doing analysis.

Whereas the (decentralized, networked) structure of DU and other internet groups can sometimes be an ADVANTAGE when it comes to doing analysis.

So even remarks like 'oldhat's' have a purpose in this system. At the very least they serve to flag unusual observations, such as 'trumad's' here. (But actually 'trumad' already flagged this observation as such, having inserted what's known as "troll prophylactic" right in the header of the thread.)

What I'm getting at is, 'trumad' shouldn't really get hot and bothered because 'oldhat' is getting hot and bothered. 'Oldhat' should vet here (not ridicule, or go ad hominen) and 'trumad' or someone else should rebut (if it seems necessary) and the discussion will move forward.

And I would like to point out that 'oldhat' IS setting up straw men here. Snarky jokes "the white chair did it" make it sound like there's something weird about asking who did it, like it's somehow "obvious" who did it. The fact of the matter is, the people in the video are hooded - so one of the main unproven things is who did it.

People who get hot and bothered about anyone who says Berg may have been LIHOP or MIHOP should remember that the video itself probably wasn't what aroused suspicion with most people - it was the State Department contradicting (in writing) Dan Senor of the RNC/CPA as to whether Berg had or had not been in US custody - plus the overly legalistic way Senor claimed in the first place that Berg hadn't.

Scrutinizing the video for clues, and interpreting those clues, is part of the the old-fashioned journalistic process of establishing the who-what-where-why-and-how: who is under those hoods, what exactly are they doing, where that video was shot, and why and how the murder and the video were done.

I don't think ANY of us have answers to all those vital questions right now.

[trumad]

71. Scott... I've been here for almost 3 years

and I've started just two threads during my time here stating I have a new Hero... One for you during the heated Fredda/Bev Harris days and just tonight for truebrit71... You held the post for a long time and you're still top notch in my book... Thanks for the post..

Tru

[bigwillq]

66. His beard was also the first thing that came to my mind

Maybe he was mistaken for an Iraqi if indeed U.S. military was responsible.

[scottxyz]

68. Simplest explanation I can think of is:

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

If you're visiting a Muslim country, grow a beard so you'll blend in better.

When I travel, I try to buy local clothes so I won't stick out so much like a tourist.

[nomaco-10]

69. You're not alone trumad.....

I also wondered about the beard. I can't believe the snarky replies you've gotten, exactly why I wasn't bold enough to broach the subject myself around here.

My thoughts... The style of beard looks very cultural in my opinion. Nick Berg was clean shaven with a buzz cut in the pictures released by the media before his trip to the middle east. It looks in the Amish style to me, but I'm not sure whose culture, if any his beard resembles.

Remember Saddam's so called "capture" photos from the spider hole? Well, it dawned on me at the time how scruffy he looked and the amount of beard growth he had, especially knowing from any and all bios I had read about him that he was compulsively meticulous about his grooming. I guess when you're drugged for weeks on end you lose interest in personal grooming habits. In comparison, the stark contrast of the photo of Berg before and after has got me thinking too. Was he trying to blend in to any particular culture or fad, and if so, whose? The way his beard was styled was not at all familiar to me within middle eastern cultures, but what do I know? I think your question is valid, I for one am very curious myself.