My take on the psychiatric meds issue... From experience

[Trek234]

I feel I have some experience on this issue, and I'll share it.

I had been to some degree constatly depressed since sometime in middle school. (though you wouldn't know it by looking or talking to me) It was bad enough to what I would call "tormenting", but I was not suicidal or anything else of that nature.

However, when I started my 10th grade year in high school that all changed. How I had been feeling the past 3 or 4 years multiplied by 500% (to give some random percentage that is large). Within literal days I was on the track to hell, and like a train there wasn't really anything I could do except go where the track took me.

Why did that happen? Well, I don't really know. Sometimes there would be "reasons" that I knew were causing me to feel a certain way. Then there were times when I was feeling suicidal for no reason other than "it's just the way I feel". Damned if I knew why.

It was sort of major depression with a degree of being bipolar. In otherwords - most days I was feeling like crap thinking of suicide, however there were rare periods (like maybe once every 3 weeks) in which there would be times that I would feel fine. Sometimes it could have been a minute or hourly thing.

However most of the time I was a constant major depression.

Anyway where was I? Ok, 10th grade. Well a long with feeling majorly depressed and suicidal I also had taken up cutting. Generally with a knife or razor blade.

Eventually I got comitted to a mental hospital. (err, well legally I checked my self in) This was like 2 weeks after 9/11 actually.

Let me tell you one thing - if you have a choice between going to jail or a mental hospital in Texas - go to jail. I have never been to jail, but I'm pretty sure it would have been better.

When I first got there I got to be searched, metal detected, and got a paper towel pair of pants and shirt. (YES - literally ALMOST paper towel. It ripped just like a paper towel, and I swear to god was made out of some kind of "giant paper towel")

I also got to have blood extracted and pee in a cup whenever I was told to do so a long with everyone else.

The nurses were like Nazi guards. There was this person there - her name was Alicia who has 14 - some of the nurses (one of them something like a 300 pound black guy) liked to intentionally play mind games with her (verbally) until she flipped out. After that they tackled her and sedated her. (and they did the tackling/sedating all the time) Sometimes they put people in confinement.

One thing that they did to everyone that was REALLY annoying - ignored you. You could ask them a question. They would ignore you unless they absolutely had to acknowledge you.

The food was crap too.

I also had a room mate who shot someone and the judge ordered to spend some time there.

The physical doctor would see you once when you got there, unless you needed to be seen again. Which makes sense.

The therapists and phychiatrists would see you once every couple days for FIVE MINUTES! I shit you not. A whole five minutes. They diagnose you (yea right) and prescribe medicine after they speak to you for a one time 5 minute period.

Ah yes - something else that FUCKING PISSED ME OFF--- Ok, they ask you your sexuality. I told in confidence the staff who asked that I was bi. THEY FUCKING TOLD EVERYONE - INCLUDING MY ROOM MATE who I got locked in with at nite. (yea, the guy who shot someone) Thank god he was not a homophobe.

When I was there there was a brief time when I made up my mind 100% to kill my self. Let me tell you - it is a feeling like no other. I'm not even going to try to describe it, because it can't be described in words. Kind of like an orgasm - you have to feel it to truly understand it.

However it went away, and I have never felt it again.

Anyway - when I was released the diagnosis paper said this - and only this - "Majorly depressed . Bipolar?"

Add to the fact when I was released I was much worse than when I went in!

But anyway... Long story short.

Between that time and hmmm, 5 or 6 months ago, I have been on so many anti-depressants I can't even name them all. Zoloft, prozac, paxil, effexor, depakote, ones I can't think of right now. I have had several doctors in that time as well.

And I can say this conclusively from experience - not one of them helped one ounce. Not at all. Zip. Nada. They might as well have been sugar pills. Other than the side effects that is. Which, fortunately, weren't that bad.

I once had a doctor who decided to prescribe me an anti-phycotic. (acutally two) Obviously mis-diagnosis, or just frustration the anti-depressants didn't help. And let me tell you - those you feel. I can understand how they work. They put you in some kind of trance. (see above description about how I couldn't describe the suicide feeling, because it's the same thing) Anyway, they had some damn strong side effects. (i.e. feeling like you weren't even in reality anymore) Personally I can't understand how anyone could take those things if they were phycotic or not.

About 6 months ago (by that time I wasn't very bad, actually by the time I was a junior it was no where near as bad as it was the year before) I stopped taking anti-depressants. (which I had wanted to take until that time since day one) So here I am today and I'm actually good.

So with this experience how do I feel about forced meds?

Well...

1. A lot of phyciatrists are quacks IMO.

2. The phycological profession needs some SERIOUS overhaul. And this state needs some serious reworking of mental hospitals.

3. I realize that for some people meds help, but for me they never did anything. Obviously they are flaky at best. Though I am glad they are there for the people they do help.

4. For the above reasons and more (that go in to civil rights issues, and others) I think forced meds are totally wrong. I have trouble supporting anyone who supports such a thing.

And also - I have to say for people who have never had any experience personally about mental issues - some of them are SO out of touch and full of BS it's not even funny. I can't believe such people at DU are even trying to give advice or support policy based entirely on limited observation, or less.

This is one of those issues that if you lack experience, you should stay out of. Some peoples suggestions would do nothing but make the situation far worse.

[pansypoo53219]

1. boy

texass must really be a great place.
my mom also has told me there is a % of people that do not get the benefits of the drugs they take(even chemo). the 24 Claritin did zip for me.
Hope you feel better

the angstless artist

[wryter2000]

2. I've had some experience, too, with my husband

I have a real problem with forcing people to take medication, but I do understand the other side. My husband is bipolar and had to be hospitalized during a manic episode. He didn't want to go, and I had to have him committed.

You can't believe what it's like to try to cope with someone going through a manic episode. He was out of work at the time, and at one point he spent our last $100. I don't mean what we had in the checking account, I mean the last $100 we had in the whole freaking world. Another time he clogged our only toilet so badly, the plumber had to take the whole fixture off the floor to unplug. When I got home that night (before I found out and called the plumber), he told me "Don't use the toilet." He had no explanation what I was supposed to use.

The government never had to order him medicated, because I did it. The medicine made him normal, not zoned out. NORMAL. He took it for a few more years and is off it completely now, and he's NORMAL.

There are two sides to this question, and even though I agree with your conclusion (more or less), I violently disagree that all of psychology is crap and all medication is crap. And btw, the hospital he went to was so nice, I was ready to commit myself there if he didn't go.

[Trek234]

3. Well

Like I said, I know it works for some people. I know I'm not the only one in never did work for though.

[jrthin]

4. Trek234, count me in as one of people

meds didn't help. I've had Lithium, Welbutrin, Paxal, Zoloft, Prozac, etc., and all they ever did for me was turned me into a zombie. Finally I said enough.

[Zorba607]

5. misconceptions

I'm no huge fan of the pharm industry but your understanding of these medicines and treatments seems overly harsh. Yeah, institutionalization sucks. The system is overburdened and the lack of personal, face to face therapy is an enormous flaw. To make a 10 cent judgement it seems as though this kind of treatment is what would have been of the most benefit to you. However, you are no the only person those doctors were responsible for. They have to balance that responsibility. The fact of the matter is that a great deal of serious, dangerous mental illness is due to some biological factor that therapy alone has no power over. The symptoms of manic depression or schizophrenia don't go away by talking about them. These, and many many others, are enormous, debilitating horrible aflictions whose symptoms must be treated by pharms. Perhaps the pharms do nothing to actually address the root of the illness, but during an episode the root of the problem is the least of the concerns.
Antidepressants are no cure all. Maybe all mental illness isn't biological in nature. But when a history of dangerous mental illness manifests itself some intervention must be taken. A person who beleives themselves to be John Adams, returned to earth as a divine emissary of the high council of Gurgone, is hardly in the best position to judge for themselves what their true needs may be.

Final notes and I'll shut up; I shouldn't have to provide insanity certification in order to have my opinions on this matter considered. I do have a mental illness and I certainly have learned that the true horrors, to me at least, are the manners in which my sickness effects those that I love. Their input, and anyone elses, should be considered and disputed if need be.
Also, simply because a med is labeled anti-psychotic does not mean that you must be pyschotic in order to benefit from it. Depakote and nuerontin are used to treat manic episodes but are more traditionally used as an antisiezure med. Often anti-psychotics are used as anti-parkinsons (and vice versa). Many psych meds defy labeling

6. I have had similar experiences...

I agree with everything you have said, except that people should stay out of the issue. I think that people should educate themselves before they talk on an issue. To not have had direct experience doesn't mean that you can't form opinions on the issue just that you have more homework to do in forming those opinions.

[Gman2]

8. prozac

I went through an episode shortly after 9/11 and a hit and run injury. I took prozac for two and a half weeks when it hit. I couldnt even order rubio's lunch. I felt that any moment I would strangle all the patron's there. Nothing was real. I spent the next week cold turkey at the beach meditating. I felt that I would never again be sane. Since then, I have read that all these serotonin reuptake inhibitors were not studied on humans. They did animal studies. They were rushed to market because they replace therapy. HMO's had an orgasm. There are serious longterm effects on the brain that happen to all users to some degree. It is criminal that they are prescribed like candy. I have heard of many people becoming psychotic. If I had a machine gun in my hand, I have no doubt that I would have done the same as those students in Columbine, who coincidentally also took them.

[amazona]

7. OMG -- bipolars should not be taking Prozac etc.

What a horrible story! I am glad you are getting away from these "helpers," and I hope you will find a way back to health.

If you are bipolar, you should not have been given Prozac or some of the other SSRIs. I found out the hard way, when a bipolar friend was given Prozac and went wacky and threatened me (and quite a few other people at various times) with his gun. We later learned that these drugs can be very dangerous for bipolar people and cause them to act out violently, or even commit suicide or kill someone else. (This friend's doctor is now out of business, thank goodness.)

It must have taken a lot of courage to share your story.

[roughsatori]

11. SSRIs nearly killed me

I have bi-polar disorder and was prescribed Prozac and went completely psychotic and was found walking the city barefoot, shirtless, and incoherent. Then after hospitalization they switched to Paxil--after a week back to the hospital. They actually gave me Zoloft next--guess what, hospital.

The side effects of zyprexa, clozaril, and resperidal are much worse than many posters seem to know. I did not simply become normal from taking these drugs. They dampened my affect and IQ. I currently am taking no medications--I am not fine at all--but I am once again able to come across, in person, like I really do have a 165+ IQ. A bit eccentric, but with a brain and emotion. If any pschiatric nurses are lurking, I am aware of the dangers of not taking medication, and do not recommend it to others.

[aquart]

9. I'm so glad I'm not Solomon.

My experience of my stepbrother going off his meds is juxtaposed with my own experience with doctors who carelessly and dangerously prescribe.

My HMO so-called psychiatrist right now is a pill pusher. He does nothing else.

It's scary out there. I wish we could count on help to help.

[spinbaby]

10. Unfortunately, the solution costs money

Good psychiatric care costs money so few patients get the care they need. The only ones I know who get decent care pay for it themselves or have a relative that pays for it. An HMO isn't going to give you decent care. One friennd pays for a therapist but depends on the HMO doctor to prescribe medicine because her therapist isn't an MD. The HMO doctor keeps screwing with her meds because they don't like to prescribe expensive drugs. They never say it's because the drugs are expensive--it's always, "Oh, we have this much better drug." And then after a few weeks on the much better drug she starts to hallucinate.

Yes, I am for mandatory medication--but it has to go along with good care. As long as mental patients get crap care, I don't think we can insist they take meds.

[soothsayer]

12. Apparently, talk therapy is as effective as meds

But they tend to push meds on people anyway.

[mix68]

13. it took time

but i finally found an ssri that worked, lexipro
after several disastrous experiences

i hated the way the first ones made me feel, but lexipro, horrible, sinister sounding name, has made my extremely severe depression bearable

it takes so long to find the right balance, when depression struck me and i decided to seek help as things spun out of control, i decided to change my diet and exercise regime, simplifying everything in life to find some sort of sanity again

it took 3 years of this and therapy and trying many other ssri-s, and as anyone who has depression knows, recoveries are fragile

[DemLikr]

14. Thanks, Trek, for sharing your story.

I feel that Prozac saved my life. Now 46, I believe I suffered undiagnosed and untreated depression from childhood. At about 38, during major life changes, I began taking Prozac and I believe it gave me the emotional stability to take the steps and deal with the shit I had/have to deal with.

Mood-wise, Prozac seems to enable me to experience more closely "normal" highs and lows, without the severe, fathomless depths of true, black depression.

But it seems obvious that due to bodily and personality differences, what works for me may actually make someone else worse.

[DagmarK]

15. Man, you have been through the wringer!!!

Bless your heart.

How are things for you today?????

I hope better.....I really hope so.

I don't know what I think about forced meds......but forced meds and a hellish negligent medical program sounds disastrous (as you have indicated).

I wonder if there are other countries that seem to know how to handle this........we should look for someone else's model, cause ours is insane! (pardon the pun!)

I am just so stunned at your story -- you are just a baby!!! I can't believe you have been through this. Well, I hope to GOD that hell or highwater you beat this AND the crappy system......so that you can advocate for some big changes. And because you deserve a really nice life experience! Beat it like there's no tomorrow, Trek! And that's an order! :-)