Framing debate for total release of Iraqi maltreatment pics.

[skip fox]

What are our best reasons?

I think bringing in the German citizens' excuse of "We didn't know what was going on in the camps" would be of use. The printing and release of the original pictures was looked upon by some as hurting America's war effort and prestige, trying to draw our attention away from the crimes themselves and trying to muzzle the media. ("Did you really need pictures?" etc.) Of course the Nazis would have killed the messenger and destroyed the message to boot. But isn't claiming that the story (esp. with the pictures) hurts America and works for the enemy's benefit doing the same thing in essence? Trying to hide our wrongdoing?


What are our best arguments?

[Trillo]

1. Full public disclosure versus privacy.

I agree that a case for full public disclosure can be made simply to spark the type of outrage necessary to instigate change towards humane treatment. Failing to publicly disclose can be perceived as a method to prevent any substantive change in prisoner treatment--just another coverup.

I don't see the "privacy" argument as applying here: once someone's in jail, whether it be through detention or otherwise, aren't "privacy rights" an oxymoron? Now if you're taking the point of view of the jailers privacy instead of the prisoners, since when did "personal privacy" apply to employees in the workplace? Isn't everything an employee does subject to employer oversight while on-the-clock?

[ContraBass Black]

2. It looks to me like a losing situation

Release the pics and spark more outrage, or continue the new tradition of hiding the truth.

[TankLV]

4. It looks like only one winning strategy here.

"Release the pics and spark more outrage" is exactly what we want! Then maybe the idiots defending the indefensible will no longer do so and we can get rid of bunkerboy and the repukes once and for all.

Hiding the truth will only contribute to more war crimes.

That's why Eisenhower made every single GI within distance WALK THRU THE CAMPS - because he knew no one would even believe the pictures!

IT MUST BE DONE! THE WHOLE THING NEEDS TO BE MADE PUBLIC AND SHOVED DOWN THE THROATS OF EVERY REPUKE AND NEOCON CONSERVATIVE APOLOGIST TILL THEY PUKE!

[Petrodollar Warfare]

3. 2 reasons come to mind...

..First, the US is admired when the "free press" shows our dirty laundry, as that is what is required in a free and open society. Other nations in that part of the world do not often show or "air" their dirty laundry (ie. Saudi Arabia), and that gives rise to political frustration and creates people like Osama bin Laden - who use terrorism to convery their angst. It's better to show sun light on these things, as it is typically a 'crisis' that leads to reform. The Nixon scandals led to campaign finance reforms, and the Iraqi/Afghanistan prisoner/torture scandals will hopefully led to reforms as well.

Secondly, I believe it was General McArthur (or someone of that level) who upon discovering/liberating the Auswhitz(sp) concentration camp in 1945 *ordered* that everything be carefully recorded both on both film and pictures. His rationale was that unless everything was recorded, people (ie. the Germans) might in the future try to deny that such attrocities occured. He did not want these crimes to go undocumented. It was for similar reasons that he ordered the local German villagers to perform the burial duties for the dead bodies in the camps. He wanted them to see and feel accoutable for what had happened.

While the current images in Iraq do not compare to the horrorific pictures of the Holocaust, it is important to air such crimes so that reforms can be implemented - and thereby prevent such torture/etc. from being commited into the future. People in the US will try to deny that a 12-year old Iraqi girl was beaten by soldiers and that young Iraqi boys might have been sexually abused as well if they simply read it in an article, but if/when the *pictures* are released, denial becomes much harder. War is Hell, and one of the darkest and most important aspects of warfare is what it what it teaches us about ourselves. The dark side of humans is often exposed in warfare, as evidenced in the Iraq torture scandals, but in order to learn from these sad events, we must face them. In this case means reviewing the physical evidence. It is only after such exposure and anguish that we can search and find our humanity again - the good elements found in most human beings. It is required for healing. It is also required for reforms.

So, we need to see all the evidence, as painful as it will be. We must deal with it, and hold those who are responsible to accoutn for their crimes. That is the American way (or it should be the American way). Lastly, it is only this route that the US can hope to regain any semblance of legitimacy in the eyes of the Iraqis and Middle Eastern nations. Despite the pain we feel, many people around the world *admire that the US media has historically "aired" our dirty laundry in public,* and that is percisely what the Founding Fathers said was critical in a democray - an informed citizenry. Too much secrecy is the death of liberty and freedom.

Accoutability must be pursued over these crimes. Then we can make the necessary reforms, and move forward. Afterall, it was the Nuremberg trials that allowed the German people to see the mistakes Hitler et al had commited, and also allowed them to make reconcillations, to move forward, and to learn from history. Censoring the pics from Iraq would be akin to censoring the images of the Nazi concentration camps after WWII, neither would be acceptable.