One obvious thing shoots down ANY defense the Abu Ghraib guards can give:

[Brotherjohn]

THEY TOOK PHOTOS!!

Yes, we all know they took photos. But that means a whole lot more than proof that the abuses occurred. This is a clear case of not seeing the forest for the trees. Both the mere existence of these photos and the demeanor of the guards in them show that they enjoyed this torture!

Much talk is being thrown around like "just following orders" and "I didn't have guidance". Even, this morning on one of the news shows, that women soldiers were inclined to participate because, since women have yet to be fully accepted into the Armed Forces, they are less likely to want to "rock the boat".

Well, whatever defense the soldiers put forward for their actions at Abu Ghraib, it is shot down by the obvious fact that everyone is overlooking (at least in this context):THEY TOOK PICTURES of all of it! They are SMILING and POSING in these pictures. NONE of these excuses explained why they would have done this.

It is entirely believable that their superiors, military intel, etc., could have ordered these actions by the guards. And in any case, they bear at least as much responsibility for the horrendous actions. It is not, however, believable that the same superiors would have ordered them to take pictures and videos of this torture and abuse (or that they would have done so with such happy smiling, convincing faces).

They ENJOYED this! These were their "souveneirs" of war. The guards involved are despicable human beings; every bit as despicable as Saddam's torturous henchmen.

[aquart]

1. Where were their officers?

That's the only question that means anything. So what if they were sadistic bastards who enjoyed this kind of thing--if it wasn't SOP for their unit, WHY DIDN'T THEIR OFFICERS STOP IT?

Nothing else is relevant here. Nothing.

[Poiuyt]

2. One other point...how could the photos humiliate the Iraqis?

They all had hoods over their heads, so how would they know that photos were being taken? No, you are right, Brotherjohn. These photos were taken because they were having a good time.