Mel Gibson took the pictures

[skjpm]

The point is, people spent all Easter going to a movie about an innocent man being humiliated and tortured. And here are more pictures of innocent-until-proven-guilty people being humiliated, tortured, and sometimes killed. I think that Jesus would say that he would prefer that what happened to him not happen to anyone else. So how can Christians defend these photos?

[Sgt. Peppers]

1. I don't understand how Christians can be republicans anyway.

They are not compasionate, dislike the poor, favor war over peace, and have no problem distorting the truth to cover lies for the powerful. No a real christian would be a dem.

[Skittles]

3. republicans certainly don't do what Jesus would do

p.s. thank you for not capitalizing "republicans". I refuse to show those bastards any respect.

[madrchsod]

2. real christians do not

defend these pictures and the people who did these acts.

[rpannier]

4. Because They're Not

true Christians. just like palestinians who blow up israeli children and members of the taliban call themselves real muslims -- aren't real followers of Mohammad. what people do in the name of Jesus Christ and Mohammad has got to be making their time in eternity extremely depressing.

[Finch]

5. Thats a bogus issue...

...I don’t think anyone is defending these acts... and I don’t see how there is a correlation between being a Christian and committing these acts... these people where ill disciplined and committed wicked acts that have seriously undermined the US in the middle east (yeah i saw that Daily Show bit to.... "Now the Arabs will be mad at us"... "Gee"... "Not like they where already" :D )...

But how is there a correlation between being a Christian and defending these acts... I haven’t heard a single person say these acts should not be punished much less have I heard someone who is a practising member of any faith say these acts should go without punishment...

Where have you gotten this from?!?!

And Why bring Mel up?

So to recap... Why this connection between people defending these acts (who don’t seem to exist, as I haven’t heard a single voice saying these acts are defensible) and them being Christians, I'm a Christian, I'm anti-death penalty and anti-abortion (in most cases) and I deplore these acts and think that these solider have proven themselves unfit to wear the uniform of the United States Army and should face serious charges and be liable for prison sentences just as they would if these acts occurred here in the USA... that said I don’t get this crazy connection between being a Christian and defending these acts... :shrug:

PS: Do not forget that acts such as this and far far worse was what happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan on a daily basis until recently, that is not me defending these acts at all what I have said stands, but just remember than (While I did not support the reasoning behind the Iraq war) both the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan have lead to dramatic improvements in both nations, there is so much more to do in both nations and it will take sacrifices on our part to help realise these dreams for more stable and representative states in both nations but we have no other choice now…

[mrgorth]

8. Who is this guy

He touts the DLC position everywhere. Fuck sake!

[Finch]

12. I'm Al From....

...:hi:

...not really i disagree with the DLC only really on trade where I am no free-trader closer to Gephardt or Edwards there... but generally yeah I'm the kind of moderate democrat who's views regularly get beat on by some on this forum...

But ah well... :)

All I was saying was i don't see the connection between these appalling acts and people defending them being christians... i just don't get the link? :shrug:

[Finch]

13. Why are you so intolerant of moderate dems anyway...

When the GOP hounds its moderates the howls of outrage from this forum are incredible then in their next breath they decry "DINO" and suddenly exude all the intolerance of their GOP comrades in the Club for Growth and other hard-right extreme groups...

[Finch]

16. well ?

[mrgorth]

17. Hey, I work...

I do not hate moderate dems. Mostly, I hate the definition. TO me, Joe Biden is a moderate dem. He's no Dennis Kucinich but neither is he spewing Bushisms and attacking traditional dems like Joe Lieberman does. I also hate how ruthlessly they attacked Howard Dean when all he was doing was drawing a distinction between himself and the more centrist dems.

[Finch]

18. Sorry man..

...when your a student, you kinda forget that other people actually are out there making money... :)

...Yeah I get your point, don't totally agree, as far as the primaries went Dean gave pretty much as good as he got and he tried to define himself as "non-DLC" and tried to equate the DLC with what he called a "Republican Wing of the Democratic Party" which got to be pretty inflammatory both sides where to blame for that, but Dean did a lot to start that contest imho...

Once again sorry to rush you for a reply and caricaturing you as a "angry liberal" the thing is many on this forum do have a deep seated dislike even hatred of the DLC and all moderate dems and are completely purist in their view of what a democrat should be... so sorry about that...

[mrgorth]

21. It's cool

The "republican wing" thing was a joke. The DLC attacked him first. The DLC saw his "democratic wing" speech in Cali as a threat so From attacked him. You can investigate if you want.

[LeahMira]

29. Can't let it pass...

Just yesterday there was a letter to the editor in the Philadelphia Inquirer about the fact that some Catholic bishops are planning to deny communion to Kerry. OK... fine by me. Their club, their rules. But as was mentioned elsewhere, far as I know the adulterer Guiliani is still taking communion.

Then, the letter writer actually complained about the critics who wonder why Catholics don't object to those who oppose welfare and other "socialistic agenda items."

I'm sorry but Catholicism especially, and most of the other Christian denominations as well, insist that theirs is not a cafeteria religion. You can't pick and choose which things you believe, which things you will obey, and which you don't or won't. What's the matter with them? Are they still so feudalistic that they can't speak to caring for the poor? What about the widows and orphans that Jesus spoke about?

The more outspoken Christian leaders should be all over this like white on rice. No excuses! What happened in Abu Ghraib prison was morally wrong and plain evil. I don't care if Saddam did worse, or if it happens in other countries, or whatever excuse. Wrong is wrong. Jesus didn't have to speak to each and every specific that the human imagination can conjure up. Christians know better, and the same ones who are out there moaning and groaning about homosexuality and abortion ought to be out there moaning and groaning about this.

So why aren't they?

I certainly hope they don't support what went on, at least officially. But there are quite a few allegedly Christian individuals who are making excuses... treating everything as if it was just a bit of spontaneous blowing off steam or some frat prank. IMO, the Christian leaders should be shutting them up.

They aren't shy about attacking anything else that suits them. They aren't shy about wanting to teach creationism and having group prayer in public schools. They aren't shy about wanting women to dutifully obey their husbands and wanting taxpayer money to support their faith-based social services groups.. They even manage not to get too worried about the death penalty and about wars. Now, all of a sudden... silence.

[Judi Lynn]

30. I live in the Kansas City area.

Since the photos came on, any time I turned on any "talk show" on the radio for a moment, local callers here, and national callers on national shows were seething with hatred towards the people who took the pictures, the people who gave the pictures to the media, the media for showing the pictures, and the DEMOCRATS for having any negative response.

That's a HUGE level of nasty rage against those who got the photos out, and those who disapprove.

I didn't read the rest of your post, but I had to respond to "I don't think anyone is defending these acts..."

[TankLV]

32. Then you haven't been watching any news channels this weekend.

ALL the repukes - every single fucking one of them, is spinning this like crazy.

"It's not as bad as Saddam"
"It's only a few bad apples."
"They are not bad persons - just a frat prank"
"It undermines the pResident's war effort"
"It's unpatriotic"
"It's just abuse, not torture".
"It's only allegations".
"They are just posing for pictures, it doesn't proove they did anything".
"But what about Saddam, and what his people did/are doing."
Etc.
Etc.

EVERY FUCKING REPUKE PLUS LIEBERMAN.

All these assholes, with the excdption of "holy" Joe, who also where's HIS relilgion on his sleeve, professs to be holier than thou "christians" - with bunkerboy as their "choosen" or "annointed" one.

Listen to them all bitch and moan BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT - not about the acts themselves!

[nonconformist]

35. Sadly, I have heard that argument

From people that claim to be Christian.

It went something like this:

"This wasn't really that bad, considering what they did to us on 9/11"

Debunked. Moving on....

"Well look at what they did to our troops in Falluja, this was revenge for that"

Debunked. Moving on...

"Well none of that really matters, because this isn't a war between two countries - we're at war with another culture for our very survival"

Cue my head exploding.

[cosmik debris]

6. Mel was over there shooting his new epic

The Passion of al-Sadr. He was getting some background scenes before he has to shoot the big climax.

[Hunter_1253]

7. The worst part is...

that the only Christian issue in this election will be the Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life. John Kerry was refused communion because of his stance on abortion, but I didn't hear anything about W being refused communion for not taking care of the poor or sick, causing two wars, killing thousands, prisoner abuse, breaking treaties, destroying the environment, making the rich richer, covering up scandals, and being a smug SOB with chip on his shoulder and a hard-on for killing brown people. Then, the Christian fundies support the Pro-Life pResident even though he has the record for most executions ever in his state as Governor. As long as those babies are born, who gives a shit what happens to them in 18 years…ever W executes them or sends them off to war.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Nice sig line

Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Must_B_Free]

9. I don't see what Jesus has to do with it

[central scrutinizer]

11. WWJSADO?

Who Would Jesus Sic A Dog On?

[deutsey]

14. Whatever you do to the least of these my brethren,

you do unto me.

I think someone who had something to do with Christianity once said that.

:eyes:

[Finch]

15. Exactly...

I still don't see the link between being a Christian and defending these acts?... I haven't heard a single defense by anyone of these acts let alone one by someone professing to be a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim or Someone of any other faith... :shrug:

[immoderate]

20. How about those...

who said this was like fraternity hazing? They are professed christians.

--IMM

[Finch]

24. Who said that?

...I think it was barbaric.. but i see no reason to draw the "Christian connection" between all those who might try and excuse these outrages...

[immoderate]

27. Hannity and Limbaugh for two...

...and numerous people who called C-SPAN Journal. Some of whom I'm sure would claim to be christian, though I'll admit that is speculation on my part, but I recognize the voices.

Please though, I don't want to get into the religious thing. I'll just say I've heard many voices that rationalize the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners. I'm pretty sure that none of them would call themselves Democrats.

--IMM

[progressivebydesign]

26. If you haven't seen any defense of these acts.. then you've been in a cave

Umm.. Everywhere in the media, since this story broke, there are people saying that this abuse was okay. It was no more than frat initiation antics, they deserved it, it's okay cuz it's revenge, it's not torture, this is war... you can take your pick of excuses for this behavior. Yes.. supposed Christians are defending this, because they refuse to dennounce anything America under Bush, or our military does. Most of these trendy born-agains see Muslims as non-humans.. despite the fact that many people in IRaq are not necessarily Muslim. It is not necessarily a Muslim country.. but hey.. why quibble over details.

[UTUSN]

19. Brilliant Thread Headline

Before logging on, I was thinking about GIBSON's movie with regards to the POW abuse, not in terms of "Christianity" as in the discussion above, but in terms of how this movie, which I maintain was JUST a torture flick, how much SUCCESS it attracted, how many people went to see it, for WHATEVER external reasons, but basically SITTING THROUGH 100 minutes of somebody having the crap beat out of him.

Besides our American DISDAIN and IGNORANCE of OTHER CULTURES (and religions), there is our decadent indulgence of "Jackass", "Fear Factor", and cutthroat competition "Survivor"/"Apprentice". I realize I am flitting close to some Fundies' position on this in the culture wars.

[Failure]

22. Clinton's penis took the pictures....<nt>

[Joanne98]

23. Mel Gibson should re-do "The Passion" with Rummy as Christ. lol

[rucky]

33. as a documentary, plz

[robbedvoter]

25. or he kicks himself for missing that opportunity

Yup. It fits into the sickness

[Oddman]

28. Christians defend the death penalty

I kill you in the name of god!

[skjpm]

31. Yes, a lot of people defend this torture

And many are Christians. It must be hard to be that blind. If Jesus has made a "glorious appearing", I bet he will turn out to be one of these prisoners. They will show us pictures of his broken body just before the fireworks begin. . .

[rucky]

34. Hilarious photo!

Usually being anti-death penalty is why I can respect a pro-life Catholic. at least they're consistant.