OK ... need some parenting advice here

[The Traveler]

And this is serious. I have a 4 year old step son and a 8 year old daughter, and two teenage sons. And they are all asking the same questions about pictures of naked prisoners, girls with cigarettes and dog leashes taunting writhing naked men, and men with wires dangling from their skin. (We've tried to keep the younger ones insulated from this but have not been completly successful.)

The Clinton cum stained dress thing was bad enough ... all kidding aside it really was a national embarassment. But THIS is way over the top, orders of magnitude worse. All my kids feel that suddenly we are not the good guys anymore. My daughter relates this to Star Wars and observed this looked a lot like something the Empire would do.

My older sons are even more disturbed, and it comes out it their cynicism. My oldest was considering a military career but now seems to be recoiling from the notion, and I cannot blame him in the slightest. In fact, I am now discouraging the idea.

I guess what I am saying is I am having trouble helping my kids deal with this, and it would be good to discuss with other parents and/or younger folk. I really am concerned by the degree to which all this is affecting them.

[GirlinContempt]

1. I wish

I had some advice to give :\
But its wonderful to hear how compassionate and caring your children are, and it's very sad that this is something they have to deal with.

[The Traveler]

6. I have tried to bring them up

strong but kind, with the conviction that brutality is simply wrong.

I always believed in this country and still do ... but their eyes accuse me, partly because of the work I used to do. I think they wonder if I ever did anything like that ... I assure them (accurately) not ... it all just makes me want to vomit.

[July]

24. Point out that their reaction is an appropriate one.

It won't take away their revulsion, but it will underline your values and the importance of maintaining one's humanity even in extreme situations.

It may help them a little to also point out that the whistleblowers have brought this to light and that, therefore, something is being done about it. I've found with my kids that the anxiety persists when they've seen something awful, and it helps to address that.

Sounds like you have good kids.

[proud patriot]

2. I've so far been successful

in shielding my 8 year old son .

Tell them you going to vote for
a man who will Help America Heal
from this horrible leadership .

[The Traveler]

3. I was watching CNN today

And my daughter walked in right at the wrong moment ... she saw what was on the screen and it was like someone punched her in the stomache. So we had to talk.

[radwriter0555]

27. TURN OFF THE TEEVEE. We have no need to watch this crap..

It's NOT NEWS. It's useless, pointless, and causes terrible trouble. The so-called news of today is just idiots telling YOU what to think.

We don't watch that crap here.

We READ the news from various sources, online. That way, WE get make our own decisions on what's happening. Watching talking heads trot out torture pix for their commercial value, LITERALLY, is nasty.

[alittlelark]

4. I have a 9 and a 7 year old

we started talking about this a few days ago. I used the analogy of a friend (of the older one) who was caught abusing a cat. They have known - since the incident occurred - that the act was considered despicable by all of their acquaintances (she shoved a kitten into a bucket of water, until other children forced her to stop).

My kids know that what she did was MEAN and CRUEL. I, and other families circa the event are using these words. The child in question also torments younger children........but, one on one, or in a rigid environment she is a saint.

Bottom line...be real. Children KNOW when 'wrong' is being done.

Have them explain to you what 'they think is wrong'.

Have them brainstorm on 'why someone would do such a thing'

Have them come up with a 'new world solution for us' - because we sure-as-sh*t need one

[The Traveler]

11. Thanks

Good suggestions. Especially the last ... 'cause we sure as s**t need some new ideas. It all came to a head today with the kids and I am not sure I was as helpful to them as I could have been.

[Eye and Monkey]

5. What do you think and believe?

In judicious doses and well-chosen words.

After talking it over with your partner.

[The Traveler]

19. I am disgusted by the whole matter

and the kids have figured that out. But they are having their own reactions/thoughts/feelings on the matter. It shocked my oldest when David Frum (sp?) implied the problem was that the pictures were released ...

[Eye and Monkey]

21. So, it's a talk-and-listen thing, right?

[drthais]

7. this is a tough one....

my kids are 26, 22, 19
all are fiercely Democratic
and feel that Bush is ultimately responsible
which , of course, he is.

all three are registered and practiced voters
and are itching to pull that lever in November

you, however, are in a different position
your children cannot vote
and are confused by what they are seeing in the media
(your call as to whether they are exposed too easily to this,
particularly the younger ones)

my advice is this:
sit them down in front of the television:
watch with them the varying newscasts:
CNN, FOX, C-Span.///
talk to them about how the information is altered
depending upon the viewership
some are centrist, some are right, C-Span just tells it

and let them know that it is THEIR job
to sort it out
to look for the truth
to not believe everything they hear
in the form it is served up to them on TV

they must dutifully make themselves informed
and not join the ranks of the ignorant
thats how we got ourselves into this mess to begin with

none of your kids would sanction the atrocities
it's just not human
and they should go with their gut on this

and it is sad that this is the America we are living with now
that our people could do this
and that some could see it as 'ok'
if they want to grow up in a good country
they have the duty to educate themselves
and fight for what is right

this is too complicated for the younger ones
but with them, you can start with watching commercials
and talk to them about how the products they see
(kid stuff from Sat morning perhaps)
are 'fed' to them..that marketing is just a ploy
to make them think they have to have
whatever it is that is shown
this worked well for ours when they were young
they became suspicious of the corporate giants
who tried to tell them through television
that they needed this or couldn't live without that
and it has served them well
and it translates later on
into not believing everything you see and hear

good luck
parenting is a tough road

good for you for giving a damn

[The Traveler]

16. Thanks for this

Thanks for the help, people. All of ya.

"and it is sad that this is the America we are living with now
that our people could do this
and that some could see it as 'ok'
if they want to grow up in a good country
they have the duty to educate themselves
and fight for what is right"

That's what I tried to get across to them ... but you said it better.

[Nay]

23. My son, age 21, is also angry as hell.

He can hardly wait to vote in Nov. Those with much younger children should take them to the voting booth in Nov and when they vote, they should tell their kids right then and there that THAT was a vote against an immoral man who allowed those prisoners to be tortured.

Show them the direct action you can take against such people. Of course, I don't know what the hell you are going to tell them if Bush is elected.

[ShaneGR]

25. I tend to disagree

These are 4 & 8 year olds we're talking about. Sit them down and have them watch Fox? No, I don't think so. They are too young.

I have a 9 year old cousin I watch sometimes. I'm of the opinion that you should calmly answer any questions they have but should NOT expose them to things they wouldn't otherwise be seeing... especially this stuff.

Just make it clear what happened was WRONG, people will be punished for it, and for gods sake turn off the news and play with the kids.

[yardwork]

8. As a parent of two sons, I understand and sympathize.

I've tried to follow my parents' lead in this. I grew up during Vietnam. I saw the photos of My Lai when I was ten. My parents had hidden the issue of Life magazine but I found it (there was a photo of a ballerina on the cover). While looking for the article about the ballerina I found the photos of My Lai. My mother found me staring numbly at the pages.

She told me that American soldiers had done a very bad thing. She also said that other soldiers had stopped them, and that the people who did this would go to jail. She said that terrible things happen during war, but that most Americans don't do this kind of thing.

In other words, she told me the truth about the horrors of war, but she comforted me with the idea that America stands for better.

In subsequent years I lived through the shootings at Kent State, Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc. I feel that I have no illusions about the world or even our country.

When I realized in January 2003 that Bush* was really going to invade Iraq I started crying while I was talking to my children. I knew what it would mean. I didn't want them to go through what I went through. None of us wanted this, but here it is.

All we can do is tell our children the truth, do our best to shield them from the worst images, and love and comfort them as much as possible.

[LynzM]

9. Here's my take...

From someone with a younger sib, a whole pile of cousins, and a daughter not yet old enough to talk, for what that's worth.

I think this is an important time to sit all your kids down and have a talk. Tell them that you know that what they saw was disturbing; it was disturbing to you, too. Tell them that you agree, it was wrong, and it is something that should be dealt with (however you think it should.) Tell them you understand their fears that the gov't (or the empire, etc) aren't going to do anything, and that's why it's important that people know about it so they can tell the government what they think.

Most of all, teach them about integrity. Ask them what they would do if they'd seen this going on. Ask what they would do in a situation where people are doing bad things, or things they disagree with. Who do they go to, what can they do?

I only hope that when my daughter starts understanding these sorts of things, that my husband and I can take our own advice to heart. Parenting is a tough job, and I wish you all the best in dealing with this. :hug:

[yella_dawg]

10. At least for the teens...

be honest and open. The people got complacent about their right to vote and let madmen and incompetents get control of the government. Teach them to vote intelligently if they are uncomfortable with what they see.


The world would be a better place if the average citizen were as knowledgeable about his or her government as he or she was about professional sports.

[hang a left]

12. Other than the Simpsons and sports....

I do not let my kid watch much TV. In fact I don't even watch TV anymore asides from the above stated programming. There is just crap on TV, crap and lies. I don't even watch cspan anymore. I will get tidbits here from certain shows but unless there is a major catastrophe, I have sworn off TV, with and without a solemn oath.

As for the older children it might be time to have that talk about the world and it's evils.

The four year old and the eight year old, I would lie and tell them it was just a movie. Then I would ban them from watching anything but cartoons, disney, and sports.

[The Traveler]

15. I hear that

It is hard to keep the younger ones from just bursting in at the wrong moment ... I think we need to be more careful about when we watch the news. The older guys are news junkies already ...

I have to admit also the whole subject gets my Irish up and the kids can recognize that coming from a mile away. So they sense it upsets me.

[ijk]

13. it helps to work

I find this is true for most adults and children alike. Faced with this kind of situation, the worst feelings are ignorance and helplessness. Teach your kids as much about the war as you can - including trying to help them understand the reasons, however misguided, that some people support it - and, if they want to, help them find ways to work against the war or against Bush or even on some totally unrelated, positive social cause. They'll be much more able to cope with the nastiest images from Iraq if those aren't all that's in their minds.

[Fridays Child]

14. A confluence of phenomena...

...is required for otherwise good people to behave the way some of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib have behaved.

First and foremost, the offenders were not imbued with strong moral compasses. But, beyond that obvious fact, given prolonged tours of duty keeping them away from their homes and families, dreadful field conditions, insufficient training, and the leadership of a president who constantly provokes their collective anger by lying about Iraq being tied to 9-11, we can't be surprised by this debacle.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

17. What exactly is the advice you're seeking?

How to answer the questions the kids are asking?
The general answer is completely honestly, but with the details very well glossed over for the little kids. Don't worry about them being disturbed. Kids are a lot tougher than they look.

In fact, you sound like you are more disturbed as they are. So I wouldn't try to lie to them. They'd pick up on that. Kids aren't dumb either.

The best way is to explain that the U.S. is a big country, and that in any country of such a size, there are bound to be some bad people. And sometimes those people get into positions of power. But unlike the Empire of Star Wars, when the bad people do evil things, people eventually find out and get rid of them. In fact, the very fact that people are ashamed about what has happened shows that our country is actually pretty good, overall.

This explanation works pretty well, from ages 5 to 95.

- C.D.

[mike_c]

18. "All my kids feel that suddenly we are not...

...the good guys anymore."

Be honest with them. We haven't been the "good guys" in decades. We have operated one of the most brutal and self-serving foreign policies in the world, all behind a thin veneer of moral superiority. This was done in their names too. They deserve to know the truth.

[The Traveler]

20. We ain't no angels

But we have been far from the most brutal. Wanna see brutal? I can show you some things, give you a tour guide, if ya feel like travelling. But ... this sets a new low for us, methinks.

[drthais]

22. by the way

my oldest was also considering the military
and may again ....later
but, as far as he's concerned
not until this bunch is out of power

and of course you must be concerned about the draft
I know I am
and if your boys are old enough
discuss what they would be inclined to do
should they be drafted
(given that this bunch stays in power, which is possible)

under what conditions
do they personally feel that fighting for their country
is appropriate? because, there is a line...

I personally feel
that living what you believe
and not being afraid to express your beliefs
is very important as a parent

not that you expect your children to fall into lockstep
but if you have strong feelings, backed up by facts
they will at least respect your right to voice your opinion

so I salp those bumper stickers on the car
wear my 'Up Your Bush T-Shirt' when I'm feeling angry
(but only under another shirt
because I don't want to teach the kids
that being in-your-face is necessarily a good thing)
but I do not waver

again, for the younger ones
a heart-felt discussion
about your basic right and wrong is in order

kids are smart

I had a professor tell me once
(and this is the music discipline)
if it SOUNDS wrong, it IS wrong
and he was right
so, for the children
if it looks wrong, feels wrong, it IS wrong

what a shame
that in this time
we cannot protect your children
and keep them from being exposed
from things they are not equipped to understand
a small child should not be exposed
to these images

sorry

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Tell them it's called Republican Family Values!

The truth is ALWAYS best!

[davsand]

28. As with all things, I give her the straight truth about how I feel.

My daughter is turning 7 in a few days. We've had a lot of this kind of shit coming up since the asswipe took office.

It really began with 9/11 and as much as we tried to insulate her from it, it was EVERYWHERE. Like everyone else, we wanted information. We kept the TV off as much as possible, but even then, she saw it,and was afraid. We got questions about were we safe when we were at work, and why did it happen. When we had answers, we tried to give them to her in terms she could understand.

In the prelude to the Iraq invasion and after it was underway it was difficult to insulate her. She came home from school asking why "bad men" were trying to kill _____'s brother over in Iraq. (one of her classmates had a brother injured over there.) She asked why there are wars. She wanted to know if a war was gonna come here.

The same thing went on in the primary election, and she went to a slumber party and asked the mom who she was voting for. (I had a real second of satisfaction when she told me that the mom had told her she supported the President and my kid actually asked her why, since "this guy" started a war! We did have a chat about THAT as well, but it did make me feel like some of what we'd said had stuck.)

Our kid has been a part of our political activities--she has gone to meetings when practical. She has been involved in some of the marches and parades when it was safe and comfortable for her (Usually that involved her being able to ride rather than march.)

We have explained to her that not everyone sees it the way we do--that there are people who hold different views. We have also explained to her WHY we feel and act the way we do, and we have tried to let her know that it is not something that is "wrong" to speak out about.

If you have a kid who feels the country is failing-that we are no longer the "good guys" I'd suggest talking about the fact that it is up to US to change that direction. You may want to consider talking about the fact that the government derives its power from the consent of the people--and WE ARE THE PEOPLE.

We CAN make a difference, and THAT is the one thing I have worked to let my kid know. I figure the world is a creepy place for me, it must be awful for a kid--especially when they feel so small and so powerless. I decided that the best thing I could do for her was to at least set an example of involvement and participation in the process.

Pax to you, and I bet your kids come thru this just fine. They are lucky to have a parent who cares about it and is working to do such a good job.

Laura