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Did Clark seal the deal on MTP?

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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:06 PM
Original message
Did Clark seal the deal on MTP?

I think it was quite obvious that Clark was "auditioning" for VP on MTP today. He was very pointed in his remarks against Bush, and was not deterred in the least when Graham and Warner trotted out the old "this isn't about politics" line. He made his points with conviction, and I think began the Democratic strategy to lay this whole mess on Chimpys doorstep.

I think it was quite telling that the Kerry folks wanted Clark on this type of program, not Edwards or Graham or Richardson or <fill in possible VP of choice>. He has the standing to be able to look America in the eye and say "If Bush knew, how could he let it happen" or "If Bush didn't know, why is the supposed commander-in-chief so unaware about events in this war" with equal conviction.

No other VP candidate could have done what Clark did today on MTP without being easily spun as a partisan hack.

Pick him soon, John, and let him at Bush and Cheney. We all need him.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. When Lindsay Graham kept giving the "political" line, Wes...
didn't bite. Graham was trying to turn the debate into "it's politics, no, it's not" and Wes didn't give him the satisfaction. By Wes not going there, he proved, yet again, he is the BEST!
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Gothmog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Clark did well on MTP
Clark did a very good job on MTP. He would make a good VP nominee but so would John Edwards. I am happy to suport either man.
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wes is the man........get him on the ticket.........
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
94. Just be prepared for the GOP attack ads about him being fired
from the NATO command.

They'll have a great time with that.

Of course, his command had a successful result and so far, *'s doesn't.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. I missed MTP but
will catch it later when it reruns. Picking Clark is just what Kerry needs to do and I hope it's soon so they can start campaigning together.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. If Kerry thinks he needs help with national security..
Clark seals the deal every time he opens his mouth.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I think it now goes even further than helping Kerry, Wes is the only...
nominee that can begin immediately to address the disgust the world now holds the US. He knows most of the leaders, worked with them as SACEUR and is trusted and respected by them. I do not see any other VP nominee who can come close to doing that.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. Excellent point. As I understand it, Clark had
Head of State status as SACEUR and dealt with Blair, Schroeder, Chirac et al. essentially as equals.

Then too, the awards showered on him by the Europeans speak volumes in themselves:

Honorary Knight Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (United Kingdom); Commander of the Legion of Honor (France); Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany; Knight Grand Cross in the Order of Orange-Nassau, with Swords (Netherlands); Grand Officer of the Order of Merit of the Republic of Italy; Grand Cross of the Medal of Military Merit (Portugal); The Commander’s Cross with Star of the Order of Merit of Republic of Poland; Grand Officer of the Order of Merit of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg; Grand Medal of Military Merit (White Band) (Spain); The Grand Cordon of the Order of Leopold (Belgium); Cross of Merit of the Minister of Defense First Class (Czech Republic); Order of Merit of the Hungarian Republic; Commander’s Cross, The Silver Order of Freedom of the Republic of Slovenia; Madarski Konnik Medal (Bulgaria); Commemorative Medal of the Minister of Defence of the Slovak Republic First Class (Slovakia); First Class Order of Lithuanian Grand Duke Gediminas (Lithuania); Order of the Cross of the Eagle (Estonia); The Skandeberg Medal (Albania); Order of Merit of Morocco; Order of Merit of Argentina; The Grade of Prince Butmir w/Ribbon and Star (Croatia) and the Military Service Cross of Canada.

Finally, I'm sure the 55 American diplomats/ambassadors/foreign service personnel who endorsed Clark for president would agree with your assessment as well.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. God, I sure as hell hope so. n/t
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. If Kerry doesn't pick Clark...I will really lose respect for
his ability to make a wise decision that will not only effect US politics but world affairs. It is so obvious who would make the best VP.
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. In Kerry's defense, I could probably understand if Clark's lack of
political experience was held against him in the decision-making process. While Clark is obviously the best choice for the job, his lack of political experience, campaigning, etc., could be considered a liability.

Should it be? Of course not, but it's the reality of our political system. Campaigning is everything anymore.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. Wes Clark has plenty of political experience...
he held together all participants in the NATO action in the Balkans and that takes a tremendous amount of political skill. The red herring that Clark has no political experience doesn't hold water, imo. He also worked in the Pentagon which is pure politics.
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. I personally realize that, but the average voter doesn't seem to
equate the two. Hell, I can't believe how many people right here on DU dismissed him for that reason.

You don't get to General without an intimate understanding of politics, both in Washington and in the command structure of the military.

I often said that Wesley Clark may be more qualified than any candidate in recent memory, primarily because he's had such varied experiences and that he's played the political game - from both the inside and the outside - for decades.
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #49
69. We can put that idea to rest by pointing out GWB's "experience"
before the 2000 election. Way less than Clark's, wouldn't you say?
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #69
91. Bush was probably the least politically experienced person ever
(s)elected President.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
63. I think Wes is taking care of that.
People won't think much longer that he doesn't have any political experience with all the speaking for the Dems he's been doing lately.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wes is the ONLY
Edited on Sun May-09-04 12:19 PM by in_cog_ni_to
VP candidate who can do what he did on MTP. He is the ONLY one who can attack this administration and tell it like it is and with conviction. He knows what he's talking about...U.S. Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. Wes Clark is, hands down, THE BEST CHOICE FOR VP. Come on Kerry! Wes is BEST!
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. He did great on MTP
Edited on Sun May-09-04 12:24 PM by DaveSZ
He helps with anti-war lefties since he was against the war, and was endorsed by Michael Moore.

He helps bring back our allies to the table.

He helps shore up Kerry's national security and "war on terra" credentials.

He helps pull off more of the vote from military families and vets who usually vote GOP.


He'd be an outstanding VP pick, and he was indeed my initial choice in the primaries to go against Bush.


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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
62. Intriguing that Clark would be the point man chosen for THIS particular
Edited on Sun May-09-04 02:23 PM by calimary
"Meet the Press." A strategic move of MOST interesting significance. He is a PERFECT prospect to showcase right now. PERFECT. He has the air of credibility in the midst of all this INcredibility. He comes to us from a recent time in the military where our forces were shown, overall, in a more favorable light, with short-term conflicts that were ended relatively successfully. He has HUGE brownie points with LOTS of Europeans and others. He has a sure, steady gaze, a brilliant mind that shows all over the place, an engaging personality, he thinks on his feet and can express himself with eloquence, unquestionable experience and credentials in a time when qualities like his are MOST URGENTLY needed, and he buttresses Kerry's strong points like gangbusters. Superficially speaking, he would photograph a LOT better than dick cheney at any vice presidential debates, and would naturally draw more people's eyes anyway, especially with the growing visual stench that cheney is gathering rapidly, almost by the hour. I mean, who would YOU rather look at (except I'd probably be watching closely cheney for fidgeting, snarling, teeth-gritting/gnashing, telltale gestures, flop-sweat, hunching down - making him look sinister - and other negative body language signals, of which I expect there'll be plenty. It'll be a ballet up there with him!)?

A Kerry/Clark ticket would NOT be a bad thing. Frankly, though, a Kerry/Almost ANYBODY ticket would not be too bad a thing. Edwards is good also, but I think in THIS kind of foreign policy emergency, the scales have tipped to Clark. PLUS, he balances the ticket, geographically.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Here, here!
:loveya: :hug: To Wes :toast:
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. I hope Clark is the man.
Clark is a leader. He also knows how to solve problems and operate independently. Kerry will need a man like this as VP with the pile of shit Bush is leaving us. Kerry confidently will be able to put Clark in charge of big projects, and they will get done! We need Wes to help clean up the awful mess "the adults" have left us.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Please don't flame me...
I think Wes might be the perfect VP but is it possible that any part of the blame for our disfunctional military could be laid at his feet? Is it possible that there was abuse by the military on his watch?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's not flamable.
The freeps could say stuff like that because they lie. They would probably bring up Waco, but Clark wasn't there and had nothing to do with it.
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Mel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. I heard that very point yapped on C-Span
this morning a freeper called in and said Clark was responsible for Waco. So your right they will stay stuff like that.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. Wasn't their favorite freeper Gen. Boykin reponsible at Waco?
The one who calls himself a Christian who is also part of this torture scandal?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
74. Thanks BLM, Please File This... BOYKIN ACTIVELY CONSULTED ON WACO
if anyone hears Freeper drivel about Waco/Clark please just bring up Muslim-hating Boykin.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #42
66. You sure it was a freeper?
I've seen those idiotic charges bandied about here at DU.
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Mel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
93. Oh Yea it was a freeper
the guy was foaming at the mouth and yapped some other Repuke oinkie points that I must admit I can't remember right now.
He did call on the support the pResident line but it's true that people don't always play by the rules, yea, I'd say, I'm almost a 100% sure it was a freeper.
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. That's a very valid point, especially in light of the Repubs with no
military experience having the fricking GALL to question Kerry's military record.

I have no doubt that they'd try to lay blame on Clark, but they'd have a difficult time because of the differences in time frame. Clark's been out of the military for years, so it would be tough to blame any of this on him.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
75. Wesley Clark REBUILT THE MILITARY After Viet Nam
he was part of the Military that helped bring it forward... with an emphasis on what the TROOPS need and NOT what weapons contractors need.

Wes is for the troops and NOT boondoogle weapons systems.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Thats an excellent question
Maybe we can have some investigative reporting into prisons in the Balkans under his command. At this point I haven't even heard a rumor of any impropriety when Clark was commander.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You can be sure that Milosevic would have crowed long and hard...
if there were any cases. Remember, he is on trial in the Hague for war crimes.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. I think not
I don't say that because I am Clark supporter, which I am, but because of his military history. He was not a Pentagon General, he was a General in the Field for most of his career. So its hard to say that the policys of the Pentagon were in an way his fault, he was not the policy maker, the was the man out there doing the military's work.

Thom (Still a Clark Supporter)
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. I don't think it could stick since Rumsfeld methodically and very publicly
deconstructed the military.

He got rid of independent-minded, creative, intelligent people and installed wimpy "yes" men in their stead.

He has surrounded himself with second rate help - in fact some of these people are bottom of the barrel choices, such as General Boynkin, the 'my God can kick their god's ass' idiot.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. I love your post...the Boynkin rip is classic.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. Yeah, Boykin's a real peach, ain't he? A real soldier/statesman.
Wonder if he's a West Point grad like Wes? /sarcasm off
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Clark is already an effective counter to Cheney, and he's not even...
the VP candidate yet! He's so damn intelligent, quick-witted, and well-spoken. A Clark/Cheney debate this fall would be a seriously entertaining prospect. I think Clark would stomp all over him.

A Kerry/Clark team would be very, very formidable. Clark's certainly my first choice for VP.

On a related note, just think what this election cycle could have been like if Clark had started six months earlier and/or if he'd run in Iowa.

We could be debating who HIS VP candidate would be instead.

Sigh....
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. A Clark/Cheney debate
would be pure heaven! However, I think Cheney will probably have to have his pacemaker changed on the day the debate is scheduled or he'll have another "episode" with his heart. ;) I don't think he has the guts to debate Wes Clark.
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. Don't underestimate the size of Cheney's ego.
I think that Cheney is completely confident in his ability to debate anyone, including Wes.

In fact, I'm counting on it.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I hope so!
I would love to see it!
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Me, too. Cheney seems to frustrate under extreme
pressure, and I would love to see Wesley intelligently and steadfastly pressure him in a debate.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. As has been mentioned before, Clark defends Kerry's better than Kerry.
Why wouldn't Kerry want Clark out there? Edwards is a great campaigner, but Clark inside knowledge of what we're up against such as the MI-complex, plus he has good sources in Pentagon. Cheney will not be able to bully or push Clark around. He's formidable when he's on the attack.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
65. Who says Edwards wouldn't be out there campaigning
in any case?

He would probably love to have Kerry's favor and would be a valuable asset to the campaign.
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. Please please please please...
I hope Kerry picks Wes as his running mate.

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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. YES!
Wes should have been the democratic nominee - but I'll take him anyway I can!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. seems to me, and that doesnt mean much
that yawl are sitting self up for disappointment if wes doesnt get it and then an attack and disappointment in kerry. i hope that is not the case. would be good to see wes get it, would make a strong ticket i think in todays world, and if he doesnt, it is kerry's choice to make, someone he could see best working with and will high five his choice
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Clark has the most upside of all the VP candidates
He attacks the Repukkkes from the miltary side and they're virtually helpless against him. If elected Clark would have the most strength to disinfect the Pentagon from the sickness that has taken over.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. i agree
that wasnt the jest of what i was saying, but i agree. and he is so smart. gosh to have smart people again. oh,....... a breath of fresh air.

but your point very very good, would be a strong ingredient in healing the damage our military has done in him going in and cleaning things up, and that being a part of military, and example of oh the up the line responsibility kerry hit on

good stuff. thanks for sharing
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. With the way the war in Iraq is going...

....I think Clark is looking better every day. Although I have been pulling more for Edwards, the "strengths" that Clark has to offer -- competence being the main one (!) -- I think Kerry would do very well to pick him.

In addition, Clark was the original "Sexy Beast" democrat nominee on the Yahoo chat boards. I think we all recognize the significance of taht.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Sexy Beast?????
Oh Yeah! :loveya:
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
51. yes a number of us who were pulling for Clark..

..in the primary would carry on about him being a "SEXY BEAST", just as a bit of fun.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #51
79. Sexy Beast!!! I love it!!
Wes, as has been mentioned here many times, is a VERY attractive man.

But, SEXY BEAST does it for me!

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. I would love to go back to the good old days
of drool threads. That alone is enought for me to want him as VP pick.:9
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. That would be terrific!
I really miss those times.

If Wes is chosen as Veep, lets have a celebration, & get out the speedo pics!!!!
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. The dynamics of the campaign are sure to change between now...
... and November. Events in Iraq are burning-hot right now, and as long as media and public attention remains focused on the occupation, Wes Clark seems the obvious choice for VP.

Where will this election be, in, say, mid-September, however? Will events in Iraq cool? Will attention turn to the economy? Will Rove continue the barrage of negative ads with his seemingly bottomless pockets? Will the barrage stick, or will Americans be weary and immune come fall?

If Kerry chose Clark in the next few weeks, he would be taking a gamble that the election will amount to a referendum on the President's war with Iraq, to an extent. But you know what? It's a good bet. Clark is an economist as well as a war hero. He appeals to moderate Democrats, as evidenced by his strong showings in Oklahoma, New Mexico and Arizona. He is cool, charming, handsome, and possesses the kind of squeaky-clean personal history and integrity that political handlers dream of.

If Kerry doesn't choose Clark, or Edwards (for other reasons that would bore everyone to tears right now), this Democrat will be terribly disappointed.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. Right Jen. That's why all the calls for Kerry to name a V.P. now..
are not helpful. Events will change between now and the convention. Kerry needs to hold out as long as possible to see what attributes he will need based upon the economy, national security and polling on all of these issues.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. Clark is the picture Rove carries around in his head...
as he tries to package and sell the monkey. He fails terribly, but Clark IS the product he tries to create.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
73. Terrific point!!
LOL!!

George Bush is a Wes Clark wannabe!

Wes is a warrior, a leader, a hero

everything the Shrub us not!
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. Clark's most telling and encouraging statement
today, from what I heard was very simply. . .paraphrasing here "that if the Iraqi people no longer want us there, we should leave." To me that spells a long awaited "exit strategy."

Or as a Senator from Vermont declared towards the end of the Vietnam conflict,"We should just declare victory and leave."

After these grotesque violations of human rights, in short, this will not get any better.



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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
29. Just saw Richardson with Wolf. I think Richardson is relenting..
Wolf asked him and he didn't rule it out at all. I've also noticed the last couple of weeks that Richardson has tidied up his appearance a lot. He's cut his hair, lost weight and is wearing better clothes. I think Richardson will run if asked. I love Wes but if Richardson is the key to ousting the bushistas, I've gotta go with Richardson. Sorry Wes. :cry:
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. What does Richardson bring?
I guess he helps with the Hispanic vote, which is good.

But, there are many racist people who may vote against Kerry simply because he picked a Hispanic man to be VP.

I'm sad to say that being Hispanic myself.

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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. What does Richardson bring? U.N. Ambassador, former congressman..
Energy secretary and govenor. Nobody has a resume to match that. No one. I don't think that the people who voted for Gore in 2000 would reject Richardson because he is Hispanic. And Richardson will increase the Hispanic vote for our side.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. Could Richardson be painted with the "Clinton brush"?

And would it be effective in moving independent voters?

I really do not know the answer to this - I'm looking for opinions.

As for myself, Richardson is just, well, kind of "there." Doesn't inspire me, nor does he make me shout "oh, no - not him."

I think we need more than "just OK" to win.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
64. The repukes will try. But no one will care.
nt
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. Didn't Bustamante demonstrate that the Latino vote doesn't
got to the Latino candidate automatically?

I think it may be a little more complex than that.

Anyway, that isn't to discredit Richardson. He is a fine candidate.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Exactly what I said on another thread. Hispanics don't
vote as a bloc any more than any other minority does.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Any other minority does? Blacks voting 90% for one party is..
Edited on Sun May-09-04 02:13 PM by Kahuna
a block. So your thesis about a "block" is wrong on it's face. True, Hispanics don't vote as a bloc. With Richardson, Maybe we can change that. :D Richardson being Latino is a bonus. It's a gift. As I said. No one has a resume to match his. Kerry's resume doesn't even match his.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. You can't compare Bustamante to Richardson. C'mon now..
Edited on Sun May-09-04 02:18 PM by Kahuna
Let's keep it real. Maybe if Richardson had run in CA instead of Bustamante, he would have won. Not because he is Hispanic. But because he was the most qualified. You don't get it. It's not about Richardson being Hispanic as much as it's about a Hispanic with a dream resume. Bustamante didn't have a dream resume.

Also, last time I looked neither bush or cheney are Hollywood superstars. Let's compare apple with apples. Okay?
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #60
88. You made a statement
"And Richardson will increase the Hispanic vote for our side."

I understood that to mean that because Richardson is Hispanic, Hispanic voters will be more inclined to vote for him.

That statement doesn't require a comparison of apples, candidates, qualifications or anything else to be refuted.

It only requires an example of it not happening to negate that statement. Bustamante is such an example.

I don't take issue with your assessment of Richardson as a well qualified candidate. I only disagree with that one particular reason you cited because there is no evidence (from any election or survey) of it being true.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. It's not just the Hispanic vote for this election -
Hispanics are now the largest minority group and are growing more rapidly than any other group. One third is under the age of 18 and 45% is under the age of 8. Picking Richardson would be a bold move toward locking up a generation of Hispanic voters for the future.

Currently 65% of Hispanic voters vote Democratic - Richardson on the ticket would increase those numbers and increase turnout, affecting not just the presidential race but local races as well (if party loyalty can be established).

Richardson would be an intriguing gamble.

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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
61. Bush has not given Hispanics any reason to to be loyal to him..
Kerry hasn't either. So that block is very much up for grabs. Richardson could provide the impetus for not only Hispanics but for other minorities to turn out in record numbers. I think Richardson will help turn out the black vote too.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
52. I get that impression too. He could barely restrain a giggle when asked
if he was in the running. "Blushing bride" syndrome?

I too want General Clark to be the VP, but I also like Richardson, a lot. Clark will be in Kerry's cabinet if he's not the VP. That's good enough for me. The most important thing is that * is thrown out.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Once again. I love you, Saywhat. :)
You always seem to understand where I'm coming from. :hug:
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. Awwww,
Right back at ya Kahuna! :pals:
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
72. oops, is Richardson Catholic? might not be too good with 2
pro-choice catholics on the same ticket. Wes has a more cosmopolitan religious background--and he's a Southern Gentleman. Doesn't have the shortness problem.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
40. He was magnificent!
God I want him to run with Kerry in '04, and be our president in '12. Just think about 16 years of progressive Democratic leadership under these two incredible men!

:grouphug:
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. That is my "wish for the stars" scenario!
Kerry-Clark
Clark- ?
For 16 years of hope for mankind.

Sounds dramatic, but that is how I truly feel.

:kick:

DemEx
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
56. Transcript: Meet the Press 5/9/04
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
59. I hope so
If I can't watch Wes mop the floor with the Chimp in a debate, then let me watch him do it with Dick.
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. Yes, don't get me wrong
I think Richardson is a fine man.

:)
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
70. Well, let's see:
"And, you know, those Geneva Conventions were put in place to protect Americans.  They were put in place to protect our men and women in case they be taken.  And the people who were detained in Iraq, the prisoners there, the detainees, they were all covered under the Geneva Convention--they should have been.

And so there's more than a systemic failure.  There's a failure of leadership that goes right to the top.  This is a presidential leadership problem.  He is the commander in chief.  He announces it virtually every day on the campaign trail and he, himself, must take responsibility for this because it reflects his command influence."
"I think it would be very patriotic if Secretary Rumsfeld resigned."

" What was the atmosphere that the president created?  How hard was he pushing?

We know there was a lot of pressure to get intelligence information from these interrogations.  And the Pentagon was the action agency on this working with the Central Intelligence Agency in crafting the rules.  But the atmosphere in which the Geneva Conventions were more or less set to one side, apparently, would have come from the top."
" And that's what this prisoner abuse calls into question. We know there was no linkage between Saddam Hussein and the events of 9/11. We know now there was no imminent threat of weapons of mass destruction, the last claim of the administration is to do good in Iraq by providing democracy, an opportunity for democracy and higher standards.  And here we are with this compromising the higher standards that we believe in.  So it's a very, very significant issue as we try to win the hearts and the minds of the people in Iraq and promote our views of the right way to govern around the world."
and my favorite:
"  I think there's a greater than 50/50 chance, let's say a 2:1 chance, of a catastrophic early end to this mission."
"  We need to unload John Negroponte after the 30th of June.  He cannot run that country as the American ambassador."

Is anyone here not wishing to see Cheney answer to this stuff?




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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Ya think Wes might bring this up in a debate?

Really? :)
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
76. Have not seen Meet the Press yet
but I will see it later today.

I knew Wes would be great, & from all your comments, he has proved himself again.

I have posted on this site till blue in the face, about the value of Wes Clark as Veep selection, & what he brings to the ticket.

For me, it is way beyond politics now. It is about what is right for our country. We are in the biggest mess since Vietnam, & our reputation in the world has hit rock bottom.

We need someone with Kerry who can deal with this mess & solve it.
The job is too large for Kerry alone; he will need help.

So for me, although Wes is the best candidate, this is about governing. And Wes brings more to a Kerry Administration than anyone else. The Dem party is loaded with domestic experts; how many military experts are there?
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
77. Yesterday On Fox News They Said Clark Was In Final Four
The mentioned that Clark was now being carefully "vetted" by the Kerry campaign with very close scrutiny of his background and that insiders were telling them Clark was one of the final four Democrats being considered for the VP slot. They mentioned Edwards and Bayh being two others. I don't recall who the fourth one was.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. One of the British Newspapers
posted here last night said 4 people had been completely vetted:

Clark, Edwards, Gephardt, & Richardson.
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
78. Juan Williams on Faux News Sunday that all the buzz
for VP is about Clark now. (For whatever that's worth.)
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. No Wonder The Freepers Are Starting On Clark
thanks, couldn't figure out why he was drawing heat.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. Ahhh! Saywhat? I wish I had seen that? I'll bet the other..
FAUX pundits got their panties in a lather over that. They fear Clark more than anybody.
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salonghorn70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
80. Clark Would Be Great For Texas
Clark could campaign anywhere in Texas for Kerry. He would be a great addition. He would have an appeal to swing voters because he doesn't come across as another politician, having spent his life in the military. The average voter respects military service.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. And many other states
that are up in the air.

Arkansas, West Virginia, New Hampshire...all are somewhat conservative & love the military.

Wes did well in Arizona & New Mexico...I would send him also to Nevada & Colorado.

Many other possibilities...Wes opens up many options.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
84. Clark is the shrewdest and most articulate...
... man in politics I have ever seen. I've seen him in several interviews, he is unflappable, has a cogent and coherant message and facts to back it up.

I personally think that as VP, nobody is even close to bringing to the Dem ticket what Clark brings. He is that damn good :)
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lulu Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. He can communicate deep empathy
I was so impressed with this man after watching him during a Town Hall Meeting during the campaign. He would be the perfect match for Kerry.
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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
89. ATTENTION KERRY & STAFF: We NEED Clark
His appearance today was flawless and strong. He has the kind of rock-solid credentials we need on this ticket.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
92. I've not spoken much about the candidates except to rant about
Kerry's vote to take Iraq plus give Ashcroft the nod plus the Patriot Act. I'll never forgive him unless he ends up to be some new kind of hero.

I would have supported Wellstone.

Over the years, since the Bay of Pigs, I've developed contempt for the military while at the same time I know I can't paint all the brass with a wide brush. I despise the ones who are CEO adjuncts in uniform.

I'm surprised by what I'm going to say -

I join the chorus of those favoring Clark.

The nation needs to feel that the military is going to be straightened out.

He is more capable politically because he knows the world. We are not lone players. International relations is our life blood.

I would ask Dean and Kucinich to take on essential jobs and I would give a place to Mosely-Braun.

Dean and Kucinich and the other candidates (minus Lieberman) need to keep Kerry in place.
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Bleacher Creature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
95. Could you imagine
AWOL and "Other Priorities" going after Clark's war record. I'd almost pay to see them try.

But I guess I never saw them going after Kerry's record, and wouldn't you know. . .
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