A RayGun Democrat tells MDMC why he won't vote.

[mdmc]

I work in social service. My clients have the opportunity to register to vote when they fill out my paperwork during our intake. I groaned when I noticed that the new alcoholic client that I picked up was a republican.
He is working class, close to poor, loves to fish and drink beer. He has a teenage son.

When I met him, he told me that he really liked the sign in my car window (I have a TEAMSTERS for KERRY sign). He went on to tell me that BUSH was the worst president in HIS life!

This man felt that we went to Iraq out of want, not need, and that we did not plan an occupation or for peace properly. This man felt betrayed that HIS SON might soon have to face HIS OWN Vietnam.

Of course, he sees no difference between Kerry and Bush. Sure Kerry could strengthen diplomacy, but that would just get the French on our side. We screwed up in Iraq, and Kerry and Bush not only got us there, but both will keep us there well into the future.

I meet all sorts of service providers and school officials, and they all compliment my KERRY button. Kerry got the intellectuals, but he does not have the left or the working class. He is quickly being characterized by the w. mud campaign.

I always loved Nader, and will vote for him again in NY. I now understand the Dem hatred for Nader; its not because Nader and the Greens are so strong, its because the GOP can hold its own, and the Dem party is a weak reflection of the GOP.

Even with a flawed pResident, the Dem's can't be comfortable with a progressive split. The GOP is strong. Kerry needs something other than truth. I am bored of him and his dole self.

We need an electric, progressive veep that can help in NH, Ohio, and Oregon. If we can take WI, NJ (contested! If bush wins here, we are fucked!), and hold NM and AZ, we can win.

In NY, my client, a member of the GOP, will be voting for Nader. This DU poster, MDMC, will be working his butt off for Kerry, but will vote for Nader. I will vote DEMOCRAT if the veep is progressive enough.

We need a progressive strategy to win. We got the best leftie on the ticket already; now we need a veep that compliments him.

[iamjoy]

1. The Supreme Court

Vote for anybody but Kerry and look forward to a judiciary branch packed with the likes of Renquist, Scalia and Thomas. Kiss your civil liberties goodbye.

[pop goes the weasel]

2. "We got the best leftie on the ticket already"

Really? When did that happen?

Please, let's not play make-believe. Kerry is better than Bush, but only because Kerry wants to take us back to the 1960s, whereas Bush has been working hard to take us back to the 1690s. Between the two, the choice is clear, but that still doesn't out Kerry anywhere near the left. You apparently agree, or you'd be voting for Kerry as well as campaigning for him. The Democrat that comes closest to (surpasses, even) Nader is Kucinich--*the* best leftie the Democrats have on the national stage. Saying Kerry's a leftie won't change the truth that he is a national liberal a la Kennedy and Johnson.

[mdmc]

4. But Dennis never got out of the gate, so to speak.

Al Sharpton, Carol Mosley Braun, and Dennis Kucinich, and, some could include Dick Gephardt as strong lefties. All of these candidates did not have the "presidential" appeal that John Kerry ended up having. Kerry was our biggest name, and based on overall voting record, he has represented the left quite well..
I agree that Kerry is a nation liberal. Kerry is also electable.
If i could chose the president, I would pick Kucinich.
That being said, as a leftie, I really like Kerry overall. Sure he is dull and dole, but given the choice, he is a world better than Bush.

[pop goes the weasel]

17. "not electable"

That was the mantra of the media, and now they are using the same mantra with Kerry, so I doubt how "electable" Kerry is by the standards set by media whores. When will Democrats learn to ignore what the media says and just do what they feel in their hearts is the right thing to do?

I'm actually deeply unhappy with Kerry as far as foreign policy goes, but I'll still support him rather than * on the extremely off chance that he will do better. Gad, he'd have to suffer a series of concussions to do worse.

But you say you like Kerry overall, and yet you still aren't going to vote for him. What of all of us who don't like Kerry overall? We get yelled at everytime we express our concern that he is coming off like a Republican. Gee, if his supporters won't vote for him, what are we supposed to do?

[mdmc]

18. I'll tell ya that I'm voting for Kerry

:hi:

feel better!

We can win !

Everythings gonna be okay , America!

[pop goes the weasel]

27. Oh, yes

of course, I believe you. Of course. Of course.

I'd rather know why it is that you like Kerry, think he is electable, are comfortable with him on the big issues, are campaigning for him, and yet not voting for him.

Really, I don't mind people voting how they want to vote. I voted for Nader in 2000 myself, and don't regret it since Texas wasn't going for Gore anyways. What I don't understand is not voting for a candidate you fully support.

[bleedingheart]

3. I am working for Kerry and I am voting for Kerry

and after we get him safely in office I will work my ass off for the liberal principles I stand for ...as I have always done.

That said...I encourage other political parties to join the fray and I think that if Greens want to run for office locally and build up a strong base...then hey that is great. But now is not the time to waste even one vote. We can not afford to have four more years of Bush.

Kerry may not be all things to all people but his voting record in the Senate and his lifelong service to this country are vastly different than the spoiled brat in the White House.

[opihimoimoi]

6. Fuck those Nasty Liberals, all they want is Peace and prosperity,

the Healthy Wealthy and Wise thing, In addition, the Libs want Fairness in the Courts, more Objectivity, more Balance in Life. They actually want a better life for more Americans.

Some Libs even go so far as wanting to curtail the KKK, imagine that?

Come, we go eat then turn off the sarcasm switch

[dawg]

5. The GOP is stronger than us because they are practical.

They don't throw their votes away for the protest value. They don't sit at home and refuse to vote for Bush just because they would've preferred Pat Robertson.

And I don't care if you are in a "safe" state for the Dems. A vote for Nader is an act that makes this country a worse place for all who believe that we need to move to the left. If Nader is so great, let him join the only viable left party in the country and mount a primary challenge.

Dean accomplished more with his primary challenge than Nader ever will.

I hate the impracticality of many liberals. Let's stop shooting ourselves in the feet, guys.

[opihimoimoi]

7. I'm with you mon. got the bandages too for the wounded foot.

[mdmc]

8. easy dawg... what make the viable left party is great?

Nader is not so great, but the posistions that he stands for are. He clearly states that if you are concerned with defeating Bush that you should vote for Kerry. Kerry is the better choice for most people.
But some people care more about criminal justice reform or civil rights than they care about unseating Bush.
Many people don't believe that the Dem party is worth saving. You state that Dean did more than Nader; Did Dean receive more votes in 2004 than Nader did in 2000? Did Dean get a higher percentage of the over all votes cast?
I conceed that Dean did carry more states in 2004 than Nader did in 2000.

Republicans DO THROW THEIR VOTE OUT! They stay home. Sometimes.

[progressivebydesign]

13. Don't confuse what Nader's speeches say with reality..

Anyone can say anything.. Do you ever think that Bush's speechwriters are far more responsible for Bush's votes, than Bush's actions or TRUE personality? That's the reality.

Nader can say all the things HE believes in.. blah, blah, blah.. but the guy wears extremely expensive Italian suits and shoes, has a fat investment portfolio (including a few Cheney faves), and lives a capitalists dream of a life. What he says he believes, and what he does are two different things. He rails against the corporations while taking a handsome return on his ivestments in them.

The point is NOT that Nader has lots of money, and lives more like a GOP candidate, than a Green Party member.. it's that someday the Greens will wake up and realize that THEIR emperor has no clothes, either.

Stay home, or vote Nader at our peril. NONE of this shit would be happening right now, had enough people realized that Nader is great theoretically, but useless practically. I have no qualms about returning to a country that could be anything like what we had in Clinton's America. And yet, Nader would have us believe that Clinton is no different than Bush.

[formernaderite]

16. Bullshit....can you say Ross Perot? The reform party,.....

....the constitution party, and the other alternative right leaning parties just don't have a winnable candidate at the moment. Clinton won, with much less than 50% of the vote.
Someone should have tried to get Jesse Ventura into the mix this year....then you would have seen GOP suicides.

[mdmc]

19. The assumption being that Ventura would drain votes from w

:hi:

[formernaderite]

9. 3 or even 4% vote for Nader in democratic states like NY won't matter...

...now if you live in a Battleground state, you need to weigh your vote for a third party very carefully. I live in a democratic stronghold state as well, I did vote for Nader last time...and it had no impact. I was a Dean supporter because I found his voice courageous. I'm certainly not psyched about Kerry, he's basically a run of the mill politician, but I've decided to go ABB. It'll be my first unprincipled vote.

[w4rma]

10. It matters because it encourages battleground state voters to vote Nader.

Also I don't see how MDMC can credibility say he's "working his butt off for Kerry" while telling folks that he himself won't be voting for Kerry.

As for a VP choice, I support Edwards. Mainly because I like his position on trade.

[mdmc]

12. I'll be working for a local Justice candidate in a small city

You know, Democratic party petitions, get out the vote, mailings, fund-raising. Kerry will be a part of everything that we do this year.
What I do in the booth is another thing.

[formernaderite]

15. Oh, please....you're making these third party voters out to be automatons.

...third party voters notoriously go out of their way to vote third party...no one can "encourage" them to do so.
You democrats need to lay off the Nader voters....I'm telling you this strategy WILL backfire.
Last time Nader received lot's of votes from other third party voters as well. I know plenty of Libertarians that decided strategically to pool their votes for Nader, and these are not people who would ever vote for Kerry.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that Ross Perot actually gave third party voters a glimmer of hope. Nader's paultry totals, certainly didn't even come close to Perots numbers.
The DLC wing of the democratic party has been trying to assimilate their candidates as Republican alter egos...triangulation was Clinton's electoral victory...but let's remember, he never achieved a majority either.
I don't think playing to the center has the same appeal as it used to....people in this country, not just democrats want to see strong differences between candidates.
Kerry has a strong legacy of liberal voting, which he currently trying to run away from....too bad. Just don't play the victim card and blame Nader.

[mdmc]

20. I agree

:hi:

[fujiyama]

11. Voting for Nader

is an absolute waste. Here's why:

He's not working for a movement. He's working for himself. Whether you live in a swing state or non swing state, a vote for Nader is a vote for an ego maniacal fraud. Sure, he talks a good talk, but has accomplished nothing in the last thirty years.

If you can't stand voting for Kerry (and I haven't a clue why), then vote for Camejo or the green party nominee, for the simple reason that atleast you are building another party and hopefully something that lasts.

[July]

21. It would be helpful to give Kerry a bulletproof popular vote, as well. n/t

[Deja Q]

14. Not this year. Please. Indeed, why waste your time with helping Kerry?

Cut your losses and vote for Kerry. You're going to work your butt off for Kerry yet vote for Nader, a known fraud?

I am a Green. I support the Green cause. But this year, even with Kerry, there's too much at risk. I can't see Nader winning, nor do I want him to win because he's a great big PHONY. I don't care who the veep is, though I'd like it to be Kucinich or even Dean (Clark can go elsewhere, thanks all the same...).

Let 2006 be our year.

Right now, we need a Dem in so we don't get reich-wing lunatics in the Supreme Court, a Court that's lost a lot of respect from many since voting partisanly on 12 December 2000...

We do need a progressive strategy. But we can't be blind about it either.

[Hubert Flottz]

23. I agree with you 100%!

What good are the wishes and hopes of the people who want real change, if the entire country is lost! Democracy is at stake this time, make no mistake about it! There are many things about Kerry that I do not agree with, but I agree with him on more things! I believe the most important difference between Bush and Kerry is, that you can reason with Kerry if he is president! If Bush is elected this time Reasoning will be a thing of the past!

Bush does exactly what he wants to and gets away with it! He will really screw things up if he knows he does not have to answer to the voters after the election! If you think things are bad now, you damned sure would after Bush starts pushing his real agenda and does not have to worry about any accountability from the voters! Bush is a Despot and so are the GOPers in his cabinet, the GOP led congress and Supreme Court! Look at the things the GOPers have done just since they gained control of the Senate and House! I truly believe that this election is America's LAST CHANCE! If the people of America fail this test Freedom, Liberty and Democracy are history!

If Ralph Nader really loves America, then he will join us and defeat these Greedy fascist fools! Hell I'd even be glad to see Ralph get his foot in the door, but it's time to put reality before wishful ideas! We can squabble about the details after we save this country!

[Killarney]

22. Nader is a fraud and he doesn't care about you.

He's spewing the same crap and lies he spewed in 2000 and people are falling for it. I thought people would be smarter this time, but I guess not.

Read this:
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0418/levine.php

[demgrrrll]

24. What a great article! Vanity Fair has a good one this month on his

new backers. A scary group if I ever saw one. I can't believe any thinking person would ever even entertain the idea of voting for him in 2004 with all the information we now have at hand.

[Killarney]

25. Is the VF article online anywhere?

I'd like to read it.

[demgrrrll]

28. Unfortunately it is not. I looked for the article to link in

another thread and was unable to do so from the Vanity Fair web page. May issue, Jackie Kennedy is on the cover.

[PurityOfEssence]

26. They don't love me enough, so I'm gonna eat broken glass and pout

Yes, the Democrats didn't make the best choice for their nominee, and yes, it's because of the shortening of the primary schedule that the insiders like to force their choice upon us, but they're THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN.

It's schizophrenic to hate the Republicans for marching in lock-step and them hate the Democrats because they don't. We're a broad coalition party, and always have been.