Is it legal for a church to encourage people to vote for

[jdj]

"officials who are going to lead this country using the Word of God"

I know this is vague, but here is the whole paragraph from my mother's church newsletter, a huge church in the Indian Trail section of Union County just outside of Charlotte.

"For the rest of the month of May after the morning and evening services, you will have an opportunity to register to vote. My desire is that every eligible member of FBC (first baptist church) is a registered voter. And then go to the polls and vote for officials who are going to lead this country using the Word of God as their guide. If you are not a registered voter we have made it easy for you to sign up. So do it soon."

Apparently they are giving out forms and then people have to take them to the b.o.e..

Does anyone know what the exact laws are regarding this and if there is a watchdog group out there monitoring churches over stuff like this?

[candy]

1. There are no laws to my knowledge.

The churches have a right to suggest candidates and the churchgoer has the right to ignore them.

[catzies]

9. Do they? I wasn't aware of that.

I left my church when my pastor told me how to vote because I thought it violated the separation of church and state.

Could you please tell me where I can find proof that churches have a right to suggest candidates? TIA.

edited for spelling

[freetobegay]

13. Show us proof where they can't

[catzies]

27. Nuh-UH!

I can't prove a negative here so I'm asking Candy for proof.

[jdj]

10. Believe me, if they had the right to "suggest candidates"

the newsletter would have been more to the point, instead of saying vote for officials who will use the word of God, they would have said, vote for Bush.

This is what I am asking, does anyone know what the laws are as to just how far they can venture into politics without losing their tax exempt status, or where to go to find out more about this.

[Warpy]

24. If they campaign for an individual candidate

...they cross the line into becoming campaign organizations and can be forced out of their tax exemption.

There is no law that says a preacher can't tell folks who to vote for. If he does it as part of his religious teaching within the church, he risks having his church pay taxes as a political organization.

Churches have always tried to organize their members. Black churches in the deep south were great places to organize voter registration drives in the 60s and 70s.

Fundie churches like the worst of the SBC churches will use code words that translate to "repuglican." It can go both ways, though, and will.

The problem is that mainstream churches are falling down on the job in their responsibility to out the least Christian administration in the history of the country. I only hope they start to wake up long before November.

[catzies]

28. Thank you for a civilized answer.

Much appreciated! :thumbsup:

[SharonAnn]

35. NO, if they have religious, tax-exempt status, they cannot

recommend candidates. That gets into political advocacy of a type which cause them to lose their tax-exempt status.

But the statement you quoted does not mention a specific candidate by name. It's all in code, though, so everyone knows who they mean for president.

[billybob537]

2. Bush doesn't follow the rules of God

Just start with the ten commandments.
Thou shalt not kill OOOPPSSS!!! blew that one
Thou shalt not bear false witness OOOPPSS!

[orthogonal]

3. What's the problem?

Churches have fredom of speech too.

That's the way it should be.

[catzies]

5. Then they should pay taxes

n/t

[jdj]

8. Then they have the right to pay taxes.

I have always thought that non-profits and tax exempt institutions had to stay out of politics, or not endorse specific candidates.

It's called separation of church and state, and Pat Robertson lost his tax exempt status in just this way. This paragraph is so vague, however, I was surprised that they are even registering people to vote.

[Salviati]

38. from www.irs.gov:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=122887,00.html
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) of the Code that are exempt from federal income tax are prohibited from participating or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of, or in opposition to, any candidate for public office. Charities, educational institutions and religious organizations, including churches, are among those that are tax-exempt under this code section.

These organizations cannot endorse any candidates, make donations to their campaigns, engage in fund raising, distribute statements, or become involved in any other activities that may be beneficial or detrimental to any candidate. Even activities that encourage people to vote for or against a particular candidate on the basis of nonpartisan criteria violate the political campaign prohibition of section 501(c)(3).

[banana republican]

40. THIS IS CORRECT

However: there is nothing that prohibits churches from advocating for or against a particular issue. (provided it is *not* lobbying) Instead of campaigning for a particular candidate; a church can advocate a political/religious position on an issue whith which the candidate agrees.

e.g. Sierra Club -> Environment -> Kerry

NRA -> guns -> b*

[orthogonal]

39. I respectfully disagree

The irs agrees with you; I respectfully disagree: one shouldn't have to accept a muzzle in order to get tax-exempt status.

That said, as an atheist, most churches probably wouldn't advocate for candidates who believe what I believe, but mere disagreement with me isn't reason for me to be less concerned about their rights.

[mitchum]

14. Then those jackals should pay taxes!

[leesa]

36. Tax exempt? Separation of church and state...any of those things ring

a bell to you???

[seabeyond]

4. i heard a couple months ago

someone high in the southern baptist org he called his ministers in to go to their flock and tell them jesus knows how they vote and when they die and face the lord, he will remind you how you voted this year.

sick, i think so. what they go to hell jesus says you voted for kerry, wrong answer, zoom to hell

[No2W2004]

30. Another example

of how to get around tax laws:

Jebus sez abortion is evil, and if you vote for someone who supports abortion, it's the same as supporting abortion yourself, SO...

(wink wink) Vote as Jebus wants you to vote

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. As tax-free non-profits, they shouldn't be able to support

specific candidates or parties, although the IRS is very lax on this, but I don't think they'd get into trouble for something as vaguely worded as that.

Most mainstream clergy, by the way, will NOT endorse specific candidates or reveal their party preferences, although they will talk about specific issues, such as society doing more to support the poor. My own church is having an environmental emphasis Sunday in two weeks.

[jdj]

17. So it's tax law then.

Thanks so much, I wonder who you would notify or ask if you had a concern about a church violating this rule.

[bobbieinok]

7. I think if they're tax exempt ,it's against the law

There's been a major drive in the religious right to get congress to pass a law that churches and ministers can take partisan political stances.

This was a major issue in 2002. There were a repub rep from KS and one from NC sponsoring some law permitting this. This law was why 'everyone needed to vote repub.'

In 2000, there was a lot of political campaigning going on in the religious right churches in Tulsa. But as someone in the democratic party here said 'Who in Tulsa or OK is going to step out and bring suit?.'

A local congregational minister said he couldn't/wouldn't put something I brought him on the church bulletin board or in the news letter: 'If I object to them posting the Christian Coalition stuff, I can't do the opposite.'

I see his point but gee, follow the law and lose ....

[DrRang]

12. Hazy line

I think that churches can advocate certain positions on issues, but not support candidates by name. A lot of the fundegelicals pass out "voter education" material saying, for instance, who opposes abortions right. So they can legally support someone who governs "by God's will" (and we all know which whack-job that is.) But they can't say "You'll go to Hell for eternity if you don't vote for Jesus's precious boy, George W. Bush."

Just as in our chuch, a rock solid, gay friendly liberal congregation in New Mexico, our rector condemns the Iraq War, condemns social injustice, condemns environmental rape and pillage, and encourages people to be activists, but never mentions a politician's name, except in prayer.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. Yes it is legal for them to do it and does not cross their tax exempt

status line.

It is legal for churches to promote an anti-abortion agenda as well.

What WOULD violate their tax exempt status would be for them to promote a candidate in their literature and tell people to vote for him or to promote a specific ballot initiative and tell people how to vote for it...they CAN however promote an agenda based on the values of their religion without jeopardizing their tax exempt status.

[mitchum]

18. That's the correct answer!

Even their sheep can decipher "nudge nudge wink wink" without hearing a specific candidate's name mentioned.

[catzies]

29. Yes indeedy do.

And another reason why federal funding for certain faith-based organizations are so, well, "troubling."

I left my church in '94, during the throes of the Gingrich Revolution after declaring I was pro-choice and wouldn't participate in some "Walk for the Unborn." Lost family and friends over that too. But they're brainless R/W fundies and I don't miss them anymore.

[pompano]

15. Good question

I don’t know about the legality of a Church pushing any particular political agenda. I would assume it would create a problem if they were accepting public funding. I’m only guessing. Thats why I drive trucks and not practise Law, I suppose.

I was in fact asked to leave a Church once as the congregation identified my vehicle as the one in the parking lot with Reno and Clinton bumperstickers. They were rude in fact. I gladly left. The only reason I was there to start with was I was chasing a young girl I had fancied to. Got my dollar back from the plate when I left as well!

[jdj]

20. That, sir, makes me mad as hell. n/t

At least you got your dollar back.

And your example is a clear violation for tax-exempt non-profits, and of the golden rule.

[Gothmog]

16. Tax exempted status

A non-profit such as a church can lose its tax exempt status by campaigning for a certain candidate. We are very very careful to keep politics out of our congregation even though the bulk of the congregation are very very active politically.

The Catholic threat to ban Senator Kerry from communion would be an example of the a church engaging in political activities that would justify the church losing its tax exempted status.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. No the Catholic church did NOT jeopardize their tax exempt status

by doing that. Had they said,"Don't vote for Kerry because he is pro-choice and we are anti-choice." they would have jeopardized their tax exempt status, but they didn't. What they said was, "our teachings forbid abortion. Politicians who promote abortion are committing a sin that precludes receiving our sacraments." Perfectly legal, and here's your first clue it's perfectly legal. Do you think they made these announcements without running it past their overpaid lawyers whose job is to protect their tax-exempt status?

[mitchum]

19. I dream of the day all of these parasites lose their tax-exempt status

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. I don't and here's why

Although I am not terribly religious, taxes would be used to put religions the government disagrees with out of commission while favoring religions the government agrees with. That's HOW and WHY the laws came to be in the first place.

[mitchum]

33. But the government already does that

There are plenty of "religions" which the federal government does not recognise as "legitimate" and as a result, do not receive tax exempt status from the IRS. While the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the constitution, there is the provision that the government shall not recognize any faith above others. By granting some churches tax exempt status, while denying it to others, the federal government engages in a (to me) clear constitutional violation. I have always felt that some savvy constitutional lawyer could make their bones by challenging this glaring discrepancy. Any takers?

[Blasphemer]

22. This goes both ways though...

At my family's all Black church, the congregation is encouraged to vote Democrat. They usually say something like "I'm not telling you who to vote for, but.." and politician's full names are used. I think they do have to be careful. Didn't the IRS send out a reminder about staying out of politics recently?

[Yupster]

37. They don't have to be careful

In 1984, Jesse Jackson openly campaigned from church to church all throughout the south and even passed the collection plate for his campaign. He dared the government to do something about it and they didn't. The law is, or at least was a joke. Maybe it's been tightened up since then.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

25. IRS Warning on Politics - WP 05-01-04

(EDIT: Came back to add, they explicitly state churches can't endorse candidates.)

The Internal Revenue Service has warned churches and other religious groups that they risk losing their tax-exempt status if they engage in partisan politics.

<snip>

Nonprofit groups may not make donations to campaigns, raise funds for candidates, distribute campaign literature or "become involved in any other activities that may be beneficial or detrimental to any candidate," the IRS said in an April 26 notice.

Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.) said Wednesday that clergy members should be able to endorse candidates from their pulpits as a matter of free speech. Jones is the lead sponsor of a bill that would allow clergy endorsements without the threat of losing tax-exempt status.

In 2002, the House defeated the bill 239 to 178; Jones has since reintroduced it.

More here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58080-2004Apr30.html

[troublemaker]

26. Of course it's legal. What a question! n/t

[KharmaTrain]

31. We Have Our Own Groups...Careful...

I don't see anything wrong with the church registering people to vote...to discourage anyone from enhancing the right to vote because of what we're afraid they might do is not a very good place to be. Who knows, for every 6 or 7 Bunnypant voters they might dig up, there'll be 3 or 4 new Democrats, too. In Bible-belt land, I don't mind those odds.

We have various non-profits that go out and hold voter registration drives under the guise of a political agenda, but avoid the endorsement to maintain their tax status. Rainbow Coalition did this for years...and we sure could use them back into the inner cities registering more black voters. The Kerry campaign is really falling asleep at the switch...he needs to get into the black community before they tune out.

Personally, I like to know who my religious "leaders" endorse and, for the most part, it's pretty obvious. I just have to laugh at the hypocrisy here...I'm certain, if asked who to vote for, the Pastor would say "vote your conscious"...while he's spent the past 20 years screwing around with it. LOL.

Cheers!

[ShaneGR]

32. Legal unless the say "Vote for Bush"

Or the preacher starts talking about Bush during his sermons. If they cross that line, they can lose their tax-exemt status.

[leesa]

34. A better question...is it ethical and moral in the eyes of God?

These people are not Christians.