What are you telling your children about the Iraqi torture photos?

[Hubert Flottz]

My grandchildren are in shock and awe their mother was telling me! The ten year old and the nine year old saw them in yesterday's paper and also on TV and were asking some strange questions indeed! They said all the kids at school were talking about those photos of people piled up without their clothes on! They wanted to know if any kids got hurt by these "Mean People" in Iraq! My daughter was very upset and not letting them watch TV this afternoon! She said the kids were very upset and crying, because they couldn't watch the TV!

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Tough one

I have no children, and fortunately the Conure really does not care.

But you need to tell your daugher to seat down with the children and first hug them...

Then she needs to explain to them what happened and why it is very wrong. Don't expose them to the photos, but have heart to heart comverstaions. This is the time to explain to them why we should not do this to ANYBODY... regardless of whether they did somethign to us or not... because we are humans.

But trying to hide this... will not help in any way, because the kids will hear about this, one way or another. So she needs to talk to them

[Hubert Flottz]

2. They saw the photos yesterday on CNN before she knew they.....

were watching in their rooms, she told me! I guess the kids were channel surfing and saw them! She said they saw more of the photos in a newspaper somewhere today! She said she has most of the bad channels on their TV fixed so they can't see them, but she never thought about CNN! I told her that with Tucker Carlson making cracks about Democrats being Anti American like he did on crossfire today, that she shouldn't even watch that stupid stuff!

[progressivebydesign]

45. There's your problem right there...

.. channel surfing in their room? How many parents now have unlimited t.v. stations beamed into their kids rooms? Wow... I couldn't even imagine letting t.v. have that kind of influence on my kids.

[nonconformist]

3. Poor kids.

My kids, 6yrs and 9yrs (in a few days) haven't seen them. I've been pretty careful about that, actually. My oldest worries enough about the world, he doesn't need this weighing on his little head as well.

But, if they had seen them, I suppose I would tell them this:

"What you see in those pictures is WRONG. That is why they keep showing it on the news, because it is very wrong to do that to another person. The people who did that to them are being punished so they can't do that to another person."

Short and age-appropriate.

[Hubert Flottz]

5. She said she planned to talk to them after dinner and take them

out to rent some movies for them to watch, instead of regular TV!

[nonconformist]

8. That's a good idea

There's a lot of stuff going on the world right now that's hard enough for us adults to deal with, much less for children to try to make heads or tails of it.

[seabeyond]

10. i have a 6 and 9 too

and my 9 year old is good about putting htings in balance that people do wrong and can hear the wrong and forgive, but he likes the info, wants to be informed. has always had a thirst for universal knowledge, explores all over. we have talked so much, since 9/11 to bush to war and i am really considering letting him know the story,. havent yet and they havent seen on tv have kept away, but in the scheme of things i am thinking this is an important part of the story.

so i have been sitting in wonder

[nonconformist]

12. Your son sounds like mine

I call him my "little activist".

I've chosen for now to not show him the pictures. He's a sensitive child and he tends to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders. I have no doubt that he has the maturity to understand - which is precisely why I don't want him to see them. He has enough to worry about. :(

[Hubert Flottz]

14. Same with my grandkids they want to know about everything!

These kids love the internet too! The ten year old can type pretty well already! It would be a great world to grow up in now with all the neat toys and gadgets, if things weren't so crazy! It's kind of a good thing kids don't know about some of this crazy stuff! They are always bringing over cool toys for me to play with!

[seabeyond]

16. you are funny

what a wonderful grandpa? that is so cute. so this is all htat your grandkids need is your love adn support to them and assurance all is fine, this is a lesson for us, and always there is a higher, we always have the opportunity to create the best.........even in the horrors in life

[Hubert Flottz]

17. Well really It's kind of selfish me playing with their toys!

My mom and dad were not able to afford many toys when I was a kid! My grandkids dad is out of work right now, but I take the kids to get toys when they come down! Their other grandpa does too! I traded for them a pedal boat last summer and they love it! We have a river to play in out back, and I've been teaching them to fish!

[seabeyond]

18. that is grand

the coolest

[Parche]

4. Prisoners

I tell them that is what we do to "Terra ists"
Them people are the ones that hurt us on Sept 11th and we have
to get back at them.
We are now on a War footing, we will take care of those Killers.

OH wait, that is what GW would say

[Hubert Flottz]

6. I know they aren't stupid enough to believe Bush!

But they surprise me sometimes how sharp they really are!

[seabeyond]

7. deleted

:)

[Hubert Flottz]

9. I suppose a teenager would have a hard time understanding.....

this! Hell, I don't even know how to take this! I'll bet the teenagers will really be troubled by this though! Such bizarre behavior to try and explain to a child! More bizarre to even have to explain something like this!

[yardwork]

11. I saw the Life magazine pictures of My Lai when I was about ten.

My parents had hidden the magazine but I found it, and while leafing through it I found the article. My mother discovered me looking at the photos. She sat down with me and said that American soldiers had done a very bad thing. She also said that most soldiers didn't do this kind of thing, but sometimes terrible, wrong things happen during a war.

I was extremely traumatized. I remember my feeling of numb horror to this day.

One result is that I have not had any illusions about war from that day onward. As soon as I realized that BushCo was really going to invade Iraq, I instantly thought of those photos from Vietnam. I knew the same thing would happen again, someplace, somewhere in Iraq. That is part of war. It's one reason I was against the war right from the start.

What George W. Bush has done in Iraq is far worse than what we did in Vietnam, in my opinion. My Lai and other massacres were horrible but at least they weren't ordered from the White House down. I have no doubt that systemic torture of prisoners in Iraq has been part of our secret strategy from day one.

Bush and his supporters are both stupid and evil.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

47. You know what else gets me?

I remember getting upset about all the talk of the Vietnam War as a child and seeing it on TV. I also remember finding a book of pictures of Hiroshima. But I also remember being comforted at the time because adults would talk about ending war someday and they had sayings like, "War is unhealthy for children and other human beings." I really thought the adults were working on stopping war someday.

It seems like kids today don't get to hear ANYTHING hopeful like that. It's made to sound like the future of unending war is inevitable and everyone is just giving up on peace. I want some leaders who will try to work on diplomacy and peace and reserve war as a last result. I cannot stand how the Republicans and Bush have made enemies of the whole world. After 9-11, the whole world would have helped us to fight terrorism and that would have been the way to do it. The neo-cons are the only ones that want total war and chaos. Nobody else does!

[Bandit]

13. Tell them Clinton got a blowjob so now it doesn't matter what we do.

It is all Clinton's fault because he got a blowjob and that made everyone in America crazy.

[Hubert Flottz]

15. I think this goes a little beyond the smut Ken Star and those other

idiots were spreading around then! The Clinton thing wouldn't have been nearly so bad for the kids if the GOPers were not so stupid and selfserving! The GOPers were not worried about the kids then or now! They were using the kids like they do the church! The GOPers Moral High Ground is a Swamp now, because they got too greedy!

[opihimoimoi]

20. Hubert, Its all Clintons fault.... gatta be. .... er, nope, its Gores faul

If he had just asked Bill for help in getting elected.... things would be so different today. But Gore thought Bill was a liability and we know the rest.

Its all Gores fault. If he had asked for help. that woulda pushed him over the top and Bush would've lost. Damn.

"For the Lack of a Question...................was lost.....For th"

[Hubert Flottz]

21. Coulda' Woulda' Shoulda'!

Bush is the plague of the millennia that the old wise one predicted and warned about! We almost made it out of 2000 in good order, but the clock struck 13 on 12/12/2000!

The saddest thing of all is the kids grim tomorrows, if we stay this crooked course we are on! The ship of state is headed for the Mother of All Reefs and GW Gilligan is at the wheel drunk on power! We defiantly need a vector and quick! John Kerry is an experienced sailor who could right the ship in time and GW Gilligan is an AWOL who abandoned ship when the shooting started! I hope the people wake up before the big crash!

[opihimoimoi]

24. They will, Hubert, they will wake up in time...... Kerry will inspire,

lead them out of the woods... just in the nick of time.

Still waiting to see if Bush will be a MAN and respond to the Iraqi People with a heart felt apology and reparations.

USS America fast agound and in danger of breaking up. heavy awells crashing through the Gunwale and focsile flooding the #4 hold.

"Avast Mateys, the Capt took the only life boat not broken."

[Hubert Flottz]

25. Gilligan W Bush has turned the great ship of state into a ...........

Tramp Steamer! Too many grogs done fried his royal brain cells forever! The lad is Grogy 24/7! Numbnose the pirate and his pal Cap'n Crook have keel hauled Lady Liberty and hanged America's good name from the lowest yard arm! Tis a motley crew indeed these Bushco privateers, HaRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrr!

[opihimoimoi]

27. They been reading those Reef Charts upside down and the Quads

ass backwards.

Motley Crew affected by Scurvy, Rickets, and LOS(lack of sex) due to long hours in the Engine Room. Wipers and Oilers are dropping like flies.

Blow me down(oops) to Nantucket, Blimey

We gatta get a new set of Officers, these guys are all Slimey

Come, Avast, we go to the Focsile where ye Grog is stored.

[Hubert Flottz]

29. AHH, tis a foul wind that blows out of Bush's Grogy Smirk matey!

Stormy seas ahead and the hatches are all sprung and leaky! The second ociffffer ole Dick Wrench has thrown the moral compass overboard and the USS GOPer is staying the course that leads straight to the bottom! Even the Galley Wench Karen can't lie, and cheat fast enough to save the USS GOPer from Davey Jones or Dow Jones either one!

[opihimoimoi]

42. Heavy Seas, Engine room flooded, black gang(engine room crew)

on the quarter deck only to find all lifeboats are gone/taken. They are all alone on a ship listing at 34 degrees.

[maggrwaggr]

19. kids shouldn't watch the news

the news is the most horrific show on TV.

I'm amazed anyone would watch it with their kids.

I have two kids, they don't see the news. They watch very little TV these days.

[Hubert Flottz]

22. Grown ups shouldn't watch most of the reporters either!

Paid liars!

[alcuno]

23. The best way to watch it is with your kids.

Don't let them watch it by themselves. Generally, on the evening news, the news reader will tip us off if it is going to be graphic or disturbing.

[maggrwaggr]

48. my eight year old is terrified of Michael Jackson's face, much less

pictures of tortured naked people.

The kids have no business watching news.

[lapislzi]

39. The news always sets her off

(see below)

I try to present the events through a filter, so she knows what's going on, but it's presented to her in a way she can handle.

I am very controlling, very anal, about the presentation of information to this kid. Maybe that's weird, but I think that she has to receive potentially disturbing information from a trusted source.

[wellstone dem]

26. My 16 year old daughter had been out of town

on a bus trip so she didn't know about it, but I knew I had to talk to her about it today. I described the photos, she asked questions because it is so unbelievable and she said, "What?" "Why did they do that?" I explained that we didn't know why, but gave her some suggestions....intentional torture to get people to say what we want, ... people who are so unhappy about where they are that they somehow have to make people unhappy... I really don't know.

She replied, "We have got to get our troops out of there. We have got to get Bush out of there."

And who said kids in single parent families don't grow up right. (Well I guess she is growing up left.)

[Hubert Flottz]

32. Bless her heart!

These kids are going to hold Bush accountable! It's only fair, because of all of Bush's blather when he made political hay out of his drive to hold the kids accountable for their progress in school, that he also be held accountable for his failures and mistakes! Instead Bush claims he makes no mistakes! Bush should be ashamed most of all for the dirty deal he is giving these kids by the sad example he sets! Lying to everone and starting wars, Stealing even from old retired Americans, Killing mothers and kids with Tanks and Airplanes, and now Torture of helpless POWs! What kid would want to grow up and be a pResident like that?

[Lisa]

52. another thing to discuss might be school bullies ...

That might be a way of showing the kids how people they know, who aren't actually evil but are either trying to impress others or getting "drunk with power", can do terrible things. Kind of like using their own experience to date as a microcosm, because most of us have met bullies before, or been in situations which got a little weird. That way the children may begin to understand that neither the prisoners nor the soldiers themselves are inhuman monsters -- and that there are certain things that happened to result in those photos.

Actually, after talking to the 10-year-old in our household about the Iraq War, she's been a lot more open about bullying in her school. She says that now she knows that these things can happen, she doesn't feel that she has to pretend to the grownups that all the kids are nice. She's been particularly interested in whether "Mr. Bush", as she calls him, was ever a bully in school. (I think she would get along just fine with your daughter!)

She hasn't asked me about the torture pictures yet, but she already knows about some people she's seen on TV etc., who experienced torture (Nelson Mandela, John McCain, Maher Arar, etc.) -- if she inquires, I think I'll just remind her about those other situations. One problem about those photos is that the prisoners have been purposely dehumanized (stripped naked and hooded), and it takes a real effort to think about them as real human beings, with personalities. We don't even know their names.

[MrSlayer]

28. My kids are oblivious to it.

They've been watching that horrid "Cat in the Hat" movie in an endless loop for the past few days. As far as I know, none of their schoolmates have mentioned it either. They do know about the war of imperialism though and happily refer to Bush as The Chimp.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. I wish they were old enough to vote!

I hope they know what Bush is doing to their future!

[lapislzi]

31. Rethinking my former views

Those of you who know me know that my 10-year-old is little firebrand. She is very political, very informed, and very angry. (Like mom on all counts!) Because she's only 10, she has trouble processing her emotions, and often erupts into hysterical fits of crying when she sees something on the news, or the dinnertime discussion turns, as it often does, to Bush and politics. When this happens, she's hysterical and inconsolable for at least half an hour. We have tried to tone down the discussions, and have not broached the subject of the photos in her presence.

I was considering seeking psychological help for these episodes, beacuse we all find them very scary, but then the same thing happened to me yesterday. I lost it when I was driving home. I was listening to Taking Aim, and I wound up shrieking and crying and pulling off to the side of the road to collect myself.

And I realized--Caitlin's reaction is not abnormal. Certainly not abnormal for a 10-year-old. Hers is the reaction of a normal, sensitive, compassionate human being. There is nothing wrong with Caitlin. There is something very wrong with the world.

So, to answer the question, I will be circumspect about discussing this topic. I never lie to the child, especially if she asks me a direct question, but I will handle it with the utmost delicacy. I will not be turning on the news while she's around, but I may deliver the information to her matter-of-factly so that she hears it from me and not from another source.

[Hubert Flottz]

34. I thought through the 90s, that our next generation was lucky!

I was so glad when the USSR crumbled, because I thought my grandkids would not grow up fearing Atom Bombs killing everything on the planet! The Atom Bomb was so scary to me when I was growing up and the threat was still there when my kids grew up! So what was the first thing the Idiot in Chief wanted to do? Start testing and producing these horrid weapons again! He and the idiots who surround him even talk of using these kinds of weapons on the battlefield! To me this proves that these people are up to no good! Uniters don't play with toys like A-Bombs! Bush is a chronic liar and a sorry example!

[mopaul]

33. member when we asked the same question about blowjobs?

how will i tell my kids about blowjobs? mommy, what's a blowjob?
the horror, the horror! now we have to explain to them what torture is. just great. i miss bill now

[Hubert Flottz]

37. I know what you mean!

Gag at a gnat and swallow a camel GOPer's morals are oral! They talk the talk but they don't walk the walk! Let the Gnarling And Gnashing begin at Sunday School over these perverts in Iraq and the perverts who uphold them! I hope Jerry and Pat enjoy the abomination they helped to create and STILL support!

[lostnfound]

50. Bet they won't have 'advice from psychologist' segments on TV for this one

I remember many TV segments giving 'advice from psychologists' on what to tell kids after seeing 9-11 on TV, and also advice about their reactions to the clenis investigations.

Bet they won't have it for this one..that darn liberal media.

[seabeyond]

35. asked son last nite, how much he wanted to know

and clearly he said i want to know all. so told him this morning i would show what was up. now i dont go into the adult sex talk of the thing. it was merely the embarrassment of nakedness and he being modest understood. and the insult with the muslim religion, naked around women and others and humilating postion. the big smile on soldiers face. again not the sexual aspect. then the contradiction of this is what we are freeing iraq from and doing the same thing. and taking out the torture word to abuse reducing our responsibility in it and the view of the whole world who we are. that bushco hid it since feb as son watches rumsfield on news says we are going to get to bottom of. i say, hnm, they knew since feb, you think they take it seriously

edmund is special in he doesnt take it personal. it doesnt cause him pain just an understanding. my youngest, oh the girl kidnapped in florida, he got a piece of that tape and effected him (i kept news off for that one) and i talked, he said he didnt want the info and news. and i keep away the pictures, yet he converses it. i say no no not gonna talk with you. but he still wants it

look this is historical what is happening today. and if a parent is in balance and peace even with all the chaos, then that is what the kids pick up. we talked last nite that it is a lesson, and if we arent aware of what is up, then we cant get the lesson, and if we cant get the lesson then what a waste this stuff happening. we have to learn from it and become a better person

there is peace in our home, my kids dont experience fighting or fear in their space. they feel secure and safe. so they can disgest this human behavior and be a positive lesson

a wayward comment, bush is going to be killed like he is killing. no no i say, we dont want that,.........we just dont want him as president. but then we look at all sides too, all that are particpating, not just one sided, not just that we are all bad, or all good. i think that is the greatest lesson

[seabeyond]

36. another reason so important for me to share with son

that i weighed into telling him. he goes to a fundie private school, and we live in religious belt conservatism. lots of blindness. his school teaches only good bush, great bush. son asked the other day, why do you guys put bush up with god. my son needs the info to balance it in his very environment he is educated in

[Hubert Flottz]

38. I'm very sorry for you and your kids!

I talked to my daughter this morning and she was crying and asking me for answers and she is 32! She said her kids wanted to know why she is crying so much lately and she told them because Dad can't find a job! She is being put into the position of having to lie to her kids often and it makes us all sad!

It angers me, because I remember when I had to look my Dad in the eye and lie to him about his Social Security, when he was dying of lung cancer and Reagan was President! Social Security was saying Dad was able to work when he was dying from cancer and they turned him down! My Dad asked me about it every day, because I was taking care of it for him! I showed the letter from Social Security that stated that their doctors had determined he was fit to work to Dad's doctors and they were as angry as I was about it! I had to lie day after day, so he wouldn't be upset and troubled about it as he was dying because his doctors told me not to upset him as he fought for his life! I kept telling him it was going to be OK for six weeks after I knew he would get nothing! Two days before he died I lied to him about it! He paid into Social Security for 40 years and never got a dime because or Reaganomic Terrorism!

Hate Reagan? You damned right I do! Because Reagan fixed things so that, even if a disabled worker does qualify for disability he/she has to give the lawyers their cut! I hope Reagan burns in the hottest part of Hell for his greed!

[seabeyond]

40. it can be a fearful time

and i have seen two families close to me just lose their job. all was well they were doing fine, and lost their job. and were without work for months. and so scary it is. i was talking to a friend the other day, 9 months later husband got a job and they are on the way to recovery, and talked about the fear of the moment, yet oh the lessons and faith to see all was ok, and made it thru, stronger. i sit in wonder if we will be there soon. business just holding on. but i wont sit in fear. i have such grace with my boys and their beauty and love of husband and just love we live in. and whatever happens, i will always be ok. i have had much worse happen to me and i was fine, i can do it again.

you daughter and your kids are sitting in a place of fear, and uncertainty. they don't need the outside world, the children truly don't need to see and be a part of this mess. i agree. they need to come to your place this summer, and play, with the toys you have, with you.

ya, i here you. i don't have much expectation of people and certainly not of government, so there isn't disappointment, no feeling of betrayal, lol. had a giggle at table last nite. telling boys to eat veggies. husband says, they have ketchup and we laughed. then had to assure boys no it is not your veggie, that was a laugh at Reagan saying the poor kids had ketchup for veggie, dumb shit, so he could reduce the cost of lunch programs. we even checked out label to see what was in it.

[Hubert Flottz]

41. Now we got the 'Mother Of All Veggies' to worry about!

Compassionate CON-servatives have a pattern of cheating the most defenseless people! Like Newt's Contract on America trying to cheat some kids out of the only square meals they got at school! They'd rather spend our tax dollars on Contractors who torture and murder than on feeding the hungry kids, no profit in that! They ain't fooling God, just the fools are fooled!

[LeftHander]

43. The truth....

http://wherearetheweapons.blogspot.com

[progressivebydesign]

44. My stepdaughter doesn't watch broadcast t.v.

So we haven't really had a chance to discuss it. Unless the photos were shown and discussed on Channel One, it's not an issue right now.

[chookie]

46. Too bad the "positive" stories are so age appropriate

Yeah -- it's bad to let kids see blown up bodies and victims of torture. Let us shut their eyes to it. What a great excuse for parents to refuse to confront the realities of war

However, what is objectionable for kids about all the warm and fuzzy "hero" stories, that give them the false impression that war is fun, or honorable in all cases? Isn't it dangerous to let them watch this kind of stuff too? How many parents turn the dial when the kiddies are watching one of these?

I admit I am not a parent, and have little first hand knowledge of kids waking up screaming because of disturbing thoughts caused by this horrid matters.

But what do you do with those "in-between years" -in between the years when children are taugh to believe in Santa and Easter Bunny, and the time they first learn about the Holocaust? I dunno -- sooner or later, all humans have to come to grips with the horrors of their times, one way or another. I question the utility of the notion that one can "protect" children from the base brutality of their existance. I believe it is not a bad idea to get them thinking critically and morally from a very young age, so they are preparing to live in a brutal world, and learning to be better than it. Otherwise, you are ceding advantage to the folks who would have kids think war is like a cool video game, or that soldiers are America's Santas giving out toys to happy people.

[seabeyond]

51. chookie seems healthy and balanced to me

and since you take the time to think it out i am sure you will be right there with your child exploring all this, which is the perfect scenerio. god for you. again i say, having children interested in the world has been a blast fo rall of us. we explore the dynamics of the girl/boy issue on playground, all they have reminded and taught me, lol. religion and the controlling, as they go to fundie school and accept and love the judgemental christians in understanding.

my 6 year old talking today, why cant we vote (kids). i say because it is a responsibility and you need to gain the knowledge and information to make a responsible good vote. then go into such laughter adn tell him, reality, he knows so much more than many adults, that is how sad it is.

thumbs up chookie. you are right on, i feel.........

[NJmaverick]

49. Tell them about the evil dictator named george bush

and his torture chambers he stole from his arch enemy Saddam. Tell them about the good people trying to depose the evil king george.