He's Fucking Dead

[trumad]

Thanks Atrios:

<snip>
Tillman's youngest brother, Rich, wore a rumpled white T-shirt, no jacket, no tie, no collar, and immediately swore into the microphone. He hadn't written anything, he said, and with the starkest honesty, he asked mourners to hold their spiritual bromides.

"Pat isn't with God,'' he said. "He's f -- ing dead. He wasn't religious. So thank you for your thoughts, but he's f -- ing dead.''
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/04/SPG5K6FD091.DTL

[progressiveBadger]

Here in Phoenix

The local news orgs were at the memorial, and they didn't have a delay, so all of it was broadcast on the air. Now the AZ Republic has news stories on how they are worried the FCC will come down on them. Just stupid...

[Gasolinedream]

32. So all of it...

is 100% accurate?

That's good to know. I have seen no other articles on it.

[blm]

1. Thanks for that, trumad and Atrios.

Not fair for Tillman to get painted as a whacko Republican. He lived AGAINST convention almost every step of the way. I think he is EVERTHING that Republicans are NOT.

[Selwynn]

3. Do you know him?

Or have any relationship with him whatsoever? No? Then what do you know?

[trumad]

12. I don't know

Well from reading quite a bit about Mr. Tillman and hearing him on past shows like Jim Rome, etc... that he lived an unconventional life. I didn't know Harry Truman personally but from all I've read about him he sure was a terrific incredible man.... I guess in your mind we've actually got to know the guy personally to judge him... Fucking stupid!

[blm]

29. I know that your post is unnecessarily harsh

and combative for no reason.

[ronnykmarshall]

2. Thanks for posting this

After reading some of the crap in Ted Rall thread, I'm glad someone else is pointing this out.

[Toucano]

4. Courage must be a family trait. n/t

[radwriter0555]

8. it doesn't take courage to toss a football or kill women & kids for oil

companies and republicans.

It takes courage to speak against such inanities and atrocities.

[trumad]

13. Oh really....

What Rad... Just let Osama run around unhindered in Afghanistan to plot his next strike in America!

[radwriter0555]

42. osama has been dead since december 2001.

There is no one to chase in afghanistan, other than the people who oppose the forced rule of the USA there.

The US military is doing little in afghanistan other than protecting oil co and construction contractors....

[ForrestGump]

23. No, it takes courage for both

Notsomuch for football, though.

It's not a black-and-white world.

[OneBlueSky]

40. ya know, most guys who went to Iraq . . .

did not do so with any intention of killing women and kids for oil companies and republicans . . . they went with perfectly good intentions, believing what their government told them about the supposed threat and the intention to liberate the Iraqi people . . . that they were hornswaggled wasn't their fault . . . the people who deserve our scorn are those who sent them there under false pretenses . . .

[tom_paine]

10. I agree, I wish DUers hadn't lambasted Pat Tillman so harshly

No matter what we might think of the Bushevik Invasions or the Bloodless Coup of 2000, he was a Patriot and DID sacrifice his millions to do what he thought was right.

Simply because he was lied to and misled like so many of us (as John Kerrey was when the Busheviks presented him with their phony WMD "intelligence"), is no reason to cast aspersions on his character.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. In all honesty, it was a VERY small percentage of DUers ...

...who acted like idiots about Tillman's death. And I'm not 100% positive, but I thought at least a couple of those posters were freepers stirring the pot.

[tom_paine]

37. Absolutely correct. They are in the middle of one of their "Freeps"

Get a life, LOSERS!

Have you noticed lots of Freeps here in the last week?

No coincidence, that.

[sniffa]

5. sorry

but i just Laughed my ass off upon reading that. i wish aLL memoriaLs were so LiveLy.

[scrotim]

6. "He wasn't religious." wonder what this does to the carefully scripted

Republican/Bush idea of this as some sort of holy war?

Obviously Pat Tillman didn't die for God and Country, just Country.

Is he still a hero to the right wing?

[radwriter0555]

11. he didn't die for his country. he died for unocal and halliburton.

last time I checked, while they do own the pResident, they don't own my constitution.

[Grown2Hate]

21. Just curious about this response...

but you DO know he died in Afghanistan and NOT Iraq, right? And as another poster said previously in this thread, what going into Afghanistan and trying to rout out Osama a BAD thing? I'm sure it could have been gone about in a much better way, but at least we're trying to ACTUALLY go after the person that ACTUALLY had anything to do with 9/11. I don't see how Tillman dying in Afghanistan says he died for oil companies. Just a thought...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. Here's another thought that usually gets me flamed by those that...

...have fallen for the NeoCon line of bull, but exactly do we know that Osama and Al Qaeda were behind 911? I have yet to read or hear anything to date that provides any link from the alleged hijackers to Al Qaeda and/or Osama.

I'm always open to new thoughts, so please post a link that proves that Osama/Al Qaeda was behind 911.

Just a thought...

[Toucano]

39. Did you see "Frontline"

"Son of Al Qaeda"?

You can watch it online.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/khadr/

[ForrestGump]

27. By your reasoning

all of the soldiers who died or were wounded or mentally scarred by the Vietnam conflict were also dupes of corporate America (arguably, they were, in a broad sense, if they volunteered...but back then people weren't as cynical as they were post-Vietnam) who lacked courage.

Must be nice to be so brave and be able to look down on those poor deluded idiots who fight and die for what they believe to be their country's best interests.

[Bread and Circus]

34. Why don't you check yourself. Everything doesn't boil down to some

chomskyish "the evil powerful" vs the rest of us scheme.

Get a grip. We were attacked on 9/11 and we didn't deserve it.

Until we get a handle on that notion, we can't objectively
move forward nor will we "win" the National debate.

Idolifying Al Qaeda just cuz they blew up American Wealth
doesn't make them right.

They are very, very wrong.

Pat Tillman didn't die for Unocal and Halliburton. That's
just a stupid and insulting thing to say. Not only that
it's about as Simpleton as Bush's "your either with us
or against us" jargon. It's the same thing only from a different
side. Just because you're pious about it, doesn't make you right.

[qwertyMike]

41. "Get a grip. We were attacked on 9/11 and we didn't deserve it."

Really?

[tom_paine]

15. The Bushevik Soviets would turn on Tillman in a second

All that is required is for the Party to tell them so through Imperial Pravda Channels (Faux, Coulter, Moonie Times, or any of the two or three dozen Bushevik Loyalist Propgandists pretending to be Columnists).

Will this one comment by his brother be enough to cause the monsters to devour another Patriot like John McCain.

Unknown. They ususally don't change their opinions without Their Masters telling them to (a la Deficits), so we'll see.

Will Their Masters tell them to? Unlikely. Tillman is a terrific piece of Propaganda Pravda for Imperial Tyrants. Which is really shitting on his character in another way, but how would Nazi Monsters be able to recognize that unless Their Masters were foolish enough to tell them so.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

7. Great article

Thanks for posting. It adds some sorely-needed dimension to discussion about Tillman.

The brother's words are heartbreaking. That's the voice of real grief.

[Bluebear]

9. How dare they ruin America's "feel good" story?

with some honest emotion? I suppose this halts the Toby Keith "He Went Deep For the Red, White and Blue" single?

RIP Pat

[ronnykmarshall]

22. That is too funny.

Some other items about Tillman that should have heads spinning on both sides.

His brother-in-law and close friend, Alex Garwood, described how Tillman handled his duties when he became godfather to Garwood's son. He came to the ceremony dressed as a woman. Not as a religious commentary. He was doing a balancing act.

"We had two godfathers, no godmother,'' Garwood explained. And what NFL player turned Army Ranger wouldn't don drag to make that math work?



He was the same person who often talked late into the night with his linebackers coach at ASU, prying apart stereotypes about college football players and future soldiers.

"He talked about gays,'' Lyle Setencich, the former ASU assistant said. "He asked me, 'Could you coach gays?' " Setencich told Tillman yes. He could, and he had. He repeated that at the memorial service, televised on ESPN, in front of the sports world, showing another side of a coach, another side of an American hero.


Tillman talked about everything, with everyone. According to the speakers, he had read the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, and he underlined passages constantly. Garwood recalled how he'd mail articles to friends, highlighting certain parts and writing in the margins: "Let's discuss.'' A quotation from Emerson, found underlined in Tillman's readings, adorned the program.


Yeah, this guy sounds like a freeper. :eyes:

[blm]

26. Certainly unconventional.

.

[NewJeffCT]

28. confusing article

Did Garwood come dressed as a woman, or did Tillman?

[ronnykmarshall]

33. Tillman

[Catherine Vincent]

14. Did his brother really say that?

[OKNancy]

16. Wonderful article, wonderful man and I hope

every goddamn idiot who judged him here on DU will read the whole thing. We lost one of us. It makes me really pissed off to think about all the hateful garbage I read here the past week.

[LizW]

17. Now that makes me mourn the loss of Pat Tillman

He obviously was a person who made an impact on the people in his life. They loved him.

It makes me more pissed off than ever at him for going over there and getting himself killed.

[sampsonblk]

35. He shoulda been a DUer

He sounds like one of us. Not like one of them.

[tandot]

18. Thanks trumad

I guess I gave into the "he is republican" label. Thanks for this article. Here is another part:

"His brother-in-law and close friend, Alex Garwood, described how Tillman handled his duties when he became godfather to Garwood's son. He came to the ceremony dressed as a woman. Not as a religious commentary. He was doing a balancing act.

"We had two godfathers, no godmother,'' Garwood explained. And what NFL player turned Army Ranger wouldn't don drag to make that math work?"

I was mad that the whole media ignored the sacrifices of all of the other fallen soldiers and made Pat Tillman a hero for giving up so much. Lots of soldiers gave up as much or even more than he did.

[Ksec]

19. Looks like that bunch are definetely not riding the same bus

as most do. Wow.

[BurtWorm]

20. Wow!

My respect for the guy just shot way up. I feel sorrow for that young man who lost a brother as well.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. That's great. Makes my day.

I love hearing this stuff. Put a lid on it fundies!

[Emboldened Chimp]

25. Awesome article...I want to drink a Guinness with the guy, too...

:beer:

[diamond14]

30. another BIG blow to bush*'s crusade and the American Taliban

religiously-fanatic, holier-than-thou, fundamentalist in-your-bedroom, bible-toting, sex-torturing-enthusiasts bush* supporters....


gosh, even GEORGE WILL slammed bush* today BIG TIME in the Washington Post for bush*'s recent racial slurs and other incompentent actions from the boy-king....

bush*'s ship is sinking and even the reTHUGlican rats are jumping off real fast now....and pointing fingers at each other....

[Gasolinedream]

31. great article!

Thanks for sharing.

RIP Pat!

One of my best friends was a Marine. He's not by any means a Republican or a Fundamentalist, but he was proud to support everyone else's right to be what they wanted to be.

[RPM]

43. NICE, but

he forgot to mention that he died in vain as he subscribed to a war that is a LIE.

As I have said before: Tillman did an honorable thing by serving; unfortunately, it was premised on Bush's lies; Tillman's failure to see through the lies lead him to his grave; He died an honorable sucker.

[Skinner]

44. Locking

discuss Pat Tillman Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1527625