For Canada's next general election, I want the NDP to win.

[Cascadian]

This party is what the Democratic Party in the U.S. ought to be.

http://www.ndp.ca

Check out the website and look at their platform. This is what is missing from the Democratic Party. A progressive stance! No mushy middle.

The Liberals seem to want to clear away from the policies set forth by Pierre Trudeau and Jean Chretien. Paul Martin wants to do a "Tory Lite" act. It's apparent from where I stand. I like Jack Layton and I hope he and his party can pull off an upset. Can you imagine Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the neocon clowns soiling themselves at the fact that Canada swung to the left?

I know it may not happen but I can dream can't I?





John

[Lisa]

1. wouldn't it be cool to see John Kerry and Jack Layton at a summit meeting?

There's about a foot difference in height between them, but they both look pretty fit and dynamic. (Well, in Kerry's case I'm judging based on pictures -- I was about a metre from Layton a couple of weeks ago, listening to him answering questions from the media, and he was quite articulate.)

[Cascadian]

2. kick

[Minstrel Boy]

3. Thanks - me too!

:toast:

Jack's an exciting and inspiring leader. He was my city councillor for a decade, and a more approachable politician I don't know. I think we're going to do really well.

BTW, I posted this last week, so if you missed it, check it out: Kiefer Sutherland introducing an animated NDP short, "Mouseland."

"Mouseland" is a story told by Tommy Douglas, first leader of the NDP and father of Canadian public healthcare, in which a society of mice keep electing cats - either a party of black cats, or a party of white cats - who keep passing laws which are hard on mice. A good political fable.

Kiefer Sutherland, btw, is Tommy Douglas's grandson, and a New Democrat.

Worth a look. A zip of the animation can be downloaded here:

http://www.ufcw175.com/HTML/video.htm

From "Mouseland":

You see, my friends, the trouble wasn't with the colour of the cat. The trouble was that they were cats. And because they were cats, they naturally looked after cats instead of mice.

Presently there came along one little mouse who had an idea. My friends, watch out for the little fellow with an idea. And he said to the other mice, "Look fellows, why do we keep electing a government made up of cats? Why don't we elect a government made up of mice?" "OH," they said, "he's a Bolshevik. Lock him up!" So they put him in jail.

But I want to remind you: That you can lock up a mouse or a man but you can't lock up an idea.
http://www.ndp.ca/mouseland/index.php3?load=mouseland

[bubblesby2002]

10. Mouseland is the best story ever

it really does explain what is wrong with the general thinking. Let's turn that around and elect a government of mice, for mice, and lets stop electing the cats,

I will be working for my local NDP candidate as soon as the writ is dropped.

Go Jack

[ShaneGR]

4. Never going to happen

The Liberals have a lock on that country for the next 10 years. Staying out of Iraq only cemented their lock and Paul Martin is one smart fellow.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. Never say never going to happen.

I do think the Liberals are likely to win this year, but a minority is a clear possibility.

Chretien wasn't seriously challenged because (a) the Conservatives imploded after Mulroney; (b) the vision of the fundie/neocon Reform/Canadian Alliance was anathema to most Canadians; and (c) the NDP struggled under weak leadership.

It's a different landscape now. Martin's perceived as much more corporatist than Chretien. The Liberal vote looks soft - it took a major dip when the recent sponsorship scandal broke - yet remains the default choice of a plurality of voters in lieu of being persuaded to shift elsewhere. We'll see if, during an election, with the spotlight on the opposition parties, the voters who may favour a change if given a convincing reason, get convinced.

[MrPrax]

8. Further Cement...

Martin taking his picture with the Silly Llama and the Armenian vote...

Siphon off the 'soft' New Dems and what do you have...um...well 'PAC' subscribers who haven't been declared deceased or Union cash...

Early prediction...lots of PAC cancellations from BC...

Solidarity Forever!!! as the tired old refrain goes...

[GirlinContempt]

6. Have you read the Regina Manifesto?

http://www.saskndp.com/documents/manifest.pdf
Here if you don't have Acrobat: http://www.nwtndp.com/manifesto.html

If you haven't read it, do. If you want a hard copy, I have a few Regina Manifesto/Communist Manifesto dual publishings kickin around, toss me your address. (The last time I sent books out I didn't hear back, tho)

Anyway, its the root we're trying to return the NDP to from within :)

[Minstrel Boy]

7. Another good one: the Waffle Manifesto (1969)

"The struggle to build a democratic socialist Canada must proceed at all levels of Canadian society. The New Democratic Party is the organization suited to bringing these activities into a common focus. The New Democratic Party has grown out of a movement for democratic socialism that has deep roots in Canadian history. It is the core around which should be mobilized the social and political movement necessary for building an independent socialist Canada. The New Democratic Party must rise to that challenge or become irrelevant. Victory lies in joining the struggle."
http://www.socialistaction.ca/lp-ndp_docwaff.html

I think a great strength of Layton's is that he's both rejuvinated the radical core, which had all but given up on it in the 1990s (the "New Politics Initiative" almost saw the party disband and reconstitute itself), and also reached out to other Canadians who might find appealing his progressive message.

[GirlinContempt]

9. Yeah, its not too shabby

I just really don't like Layton. He comes across as way too phony and never seems to give enough information... I can't really see him bringing the NDP back to its roots, but if he gives it a kick start on the road towards it, I'll eat my words with joy in my heart :)

[Minstrel Boy]

11. I think he's what we need now,

though during the leadership campaign I wasn't sold that he was what I wanted. Even though Layton was my city councillor, I came away from a candidates' debate unexpectedly supporting Bill Blaikie, and then I ended up voting for Bev Meslo! (She'd have made an awful leader, but I wanted to do my bit to boost the vote of the most radical candidate. ;) )

I know Jack comes across as a bit slick sometimes, but I think that's more a matter of appearance rather than a lack of genuine conviction. I think he has that. And I'm glad he doesn't balk at being called a socialist. "Social democrat" just doesn't cut it for me.

[GirlinContempt]

12. Really....

I didn't know he called himself a socialist... that gives him a couple of extra points in my book :)

I have Garth Steek for a city councellor, Tim Sale for an MLA and, of course, Gary Doer (NDP) for Premier (who belies the name of doer)... Better than Axeworthy, though...

What area did Layton run in?

[Minstrel Boy]

13. Layton was councillor in the Riverdale area of Toronto,

which takes in the Toronto-Danforth riding of the soon-to-be-forcibly-retired Dennis Mills. Marilyn Churley is our representative at the Ontario Legislature. (Though she's changed her name to "Marilyn Churley NDP", since the party lost official standing, so the Speaker would be compelled to identify her party affiliation.)

Regarding Jack and the "S-word", good interview here in Canadian Dimensions:

Leo: What about the question of language? Is the old language of socialism still relevant or is there a new language; or is socialism not necessary for your vision? Do you still see yourself as a socialist, Jack?

Jack: When I ran for city hall I found that the language I was accustomed to using on campus is not the language people are using on the Danforth in Toronto. To tell you the truth, I think the old language is alien to most people. They don't know what it means and we have to spend too much of our time explaining it to them. That's not productive. I find that the language of story telling is more effective. Like "Let's get this housing project built". Or "Let's stop our garbage from going up north. We're up against the biggest waste company in the world. We'll take them down with grass roots action in favour of composting." People share our concerns and they can identify with that type of language about very concrete things. I doubt I'll ever use words like capitalism or imperialism though maybe there will be an occasion. Socialist? I'm proud to call myself a socialist. I prefer it by far to democratic socialist. But I don't go around shouting it out.
http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/v37/v37_6gp.htm

[GirlinContempt]

14. neat

Learning new stuff all the time :)

You should message me sometime, have a chat about Layton heh

[Minstrel Boy]

15. It's good he's reaching out, but

we really don't want him to be TOO inclusive! (Axworthy and Copps? Er, no thanks.) It was smart politics to highlight how Martin's Liberals aren't Chretien's, but damn, they're still Liberals. Fortunately, those tired apologists balked. Let's take their former supporters instead. :)

[GirlinContempt]

16. Oooh goody! Can we?

Take them, I mean? *bounce*
I worry former liberals are just too... stagnant... like the party itself

[Minstrel Boy]

17. Just imagine all the cool chants we can teach them.

They may come to enjoy our revolutionary conga line. At the end of the day, Liberals are people too. Or they used to be.

[GirlinContempt]

18. "Damnit Scudworth, you've found my one weakness....

A tight, fast conga line... I better get some punch before it starts"


mmm on topic, Liberals used to be people, yes. they're still people... just vapid, boring people. I'm sure we could knock some sense into some of 'em.
I'll bake revolution cookies.

[Minstrel Boy]

19. note: the conga line will not be televised

Being forwarned is forearmed. (I thought "forarmed" didn't look right.)

And I've never met a revolting cookie I didn't like, and eat.

[GirlinContempt]

20. Have you ever seen clone high?

I stole that quote from the season finale....

For YFIS (www.newyouth.com) a while back I used to make revolution soup and bake revolution red star cookies for the meetings. My revolt name was going to be Aly 'Baked Cookies' Lastname.....

[Minstrel Boy]

21. yeah, funny show.

Anyhoo, to bed I go. Even insomniacs must eventually succumb. Good NDPing with you. Go team! :hi: