Anyone know whether Bush is a creationist?

[jobycom]

Just curious. Since that uncritical type of thinking leads to Bush support, I wonder if they'd turn on him if he proclaimed the world was millions of years old. And if he proclaimed it wasn't, I wonder if moderates would finally get the clue.

He does have to use science to make decisions, and if he doesn't believe in science, it should be an issue. Anyone have an idea of whether he has answered that, or how to get someone to ask him publicly? Maybe at a debate?

[Killarney]

1. Yes, he is.

But so are the 25 million other evangelicals that voted for him. I think being a creationist gets him more votes.

[Hamlette]

9. he is, but he just said "I don't know if I believe in evolution or not"

he's playing both sides or its his lack of curiosity at work.

Did you see the Frontline piece? I was interested to see that Bush had the same take on the 1992 GOP convention and its role in his father's loss as I did: it scared moderates. Bush then figured out how to talk in code speak so he could say the same things Falwell and Pat Buchannon said at the convention but in a way that the rest of us didn't understand it.

It also convinced me that Bush believes all that stuff. He took to religion to replace drink. And there is nothing as frightening as a reformed whore.

[jobycom]

12. I didn't watch it. I don't believe Bush really means any of the religious

stuff he says. He's not a fundie, he's not particularly religious, and he doesn't believe he's the messiah. These are just ways to get votes and to keep large numbers of people from questioning him. It's all a con. So I don't pay any attention to shows that buy his con, like the Frontline stories.

But I'd love to see the issue come up in debate, with him having to state before the nation that he did or didn't believe in science. Either way would anger someone, and since he'd probably stare blankly as he worked out his non-answer, he'd look stupid either way.

[mrdmk]

15. He it is for your viewing

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/view/


Truthfully I watched most of the show but had to turn it off. This was too much for me to take. The show is broken into 4 parts and is very well done.

[LiberalFighter]

21. He needs to be tied down to what he believes and more importantly...

explain what it means to him.

Does he believe in speaking of tongues?
Does he believe that people must be baptized when they are adults?
Does he believe that Roman Catholics are Christians?
Does he believe that Lutherans are Christians?

What are the differences between different religions and which aspects does he believe in and which does he not believe in?

Which religions prohibit drinking, smoking, or other vices? Is he against those religions or for those religions or only for those religions that have those prohibitions?

What is his stance on Mormons? 7th Day Adventists? Jehovah Witnesses? Islam? Buddhism?

Is his religion the only religion that is correct? What does he think will happen to people that are not members of his religion? Does he think they will not be saved? Does he believe that they are evil?

[mrdmk]

23. Here is what George W. Bush has learn

1) The lingo (i.e. The vocabulary that is used by these people to express themselves about their love of God).

2) To relate to the common person when speaking to a group of people. This is an art if nothing else giving a speech to a group and having people think you to them personally.

3) To throw these people a bone to where they think they are getting somewhere and bestow their beliefs onto others, other words make the world correct for their God.

4) Having Jesus Christ and God on your side one can do no wrong. This takes out the human factor of one self.

5) Having not to explain themselves because God is the almighty and that is all of an explanation that is needed.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/interviews/green.html
<snip>
Were you surprised in the 2000 election campaign, when President Bush said that Jesus was his favorite philosopher?

When President Bush made his famous comment that his favorite political philosopher was Jesus Christ because he changes your heart, I was a little bit surprised by that. Surprised, because presidential candidates usually do not make specific sectarian references to their beliefs. They often talk about God and about faith, but they usually don't make those kinds of specific beliefs.

Most political consultants would encourage a candidate not to make those kinds of references, and it may very well be that that was just the real Bush speaking. But it did have a very important political effect. Evangelical Christians and other conservative Protestants immediately understand what he was talking about, and they began to identify with President Bush.

Remember, in the 2000 primaries, then-Governor Bush was locked in a tight contest with people like Gary Bauer and Steve Forbes, who had a claim on the evangelical vote and the votes of conservative Christians, perhaps superior to Bush's own. By using that personal reference and that personal rhetoric, Bush in effect undercut the campaigns of his rivals, and brought many millions of conservative Christians into his camp.
<snip>

You can see Mr. Bush Jr. say this for himself, "Christ, because he changed my heart".
(copy the line and paste into windows media player) 11 minutes into the video
mms://video.pbs.org/general/windows/media4/frontline/2212/windows/ch2_hi.wmv


Here is another link toward religion and politics
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/evangelicals/

[LiberalFighter]

25. According to Kent Phillips in "American Dynasty"

gw* has utilized language that is non-threatening to non-fundies but understood by the right-wing fundies.

Which is where gw* needs to be forced to explain what he means by those words.

[mrdmk]

28. Yes he does, especially since he has a long record

of the same crap!

[MikeG]

2. I thought he was a Spawn of Satanist.

[KC21304]

3. He absolutley is and he don't believe in any " junk science " n/t

[smiley_glad_hands]

4. I thought he was an Armageddanist.

[ButterflyBlood]

5. he might claim to be, but I doubt he actually is

most of this cabal's political stances are just for votes. Do you honestly think he really feels so threatened by gay marriage? It's political pandering, nothing more. I am definately sure that Cheney couldn't care less either way about abortion or gay marriage and is most likely atheist/agnostic.

[Mattforclark]

7. Yeah, Cheney is from the

"shut up and let's exploit the peasants" wing of the Republican Party.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. I am sure that he believes

whatever is most politically expedient for him to believe.

[jobycom]

17. Yeah, I think his beliefs are all lies, too

He doesn't believe anything that doesn't involve him getting laid, getting drunk or killing someone. The rest is just how he looks good to people while doing his big three.

But a lot of people believe he's sincere. I'd like to see the limits of his explanations tested. Then again, I'd just like the media to tell the truth about him in general.

[Mikimouse]

8. more like a destructionist...

n/t

[neebob]

10. Why would he not be?

And since when are the two beliefs you mentioned mutually exclusive? I know there are people who believe the earth is only a few thousand years old, but I wasn't aware it's that common a belief. Then again, I guess it would explain that goofball with the show on TBN who claims the earth was vibrating and there was music in the air and people riding around on dinosaurs and stuff.

I was raised Mormon, and I never had a problem reconciling the geologic and fossil records with creation. I was taught that one of God's days could well have been millions of years, and he operates using natural laws so the process could have included what the scientists were saying. I also remember my dad quoting some scripture - undoubtedly from the Book of Mormon or one of them - about God gathering up materials from elseshere to make the earth. So, of all the things that bothered me about Mormon teachings (and still bother me about religious teachings in general), that was never one of them.

[jobycom]

14. Creationists believe they are mutually exclusive

If you believe that science can determine that the earth is over 6000 years old, you aren't a creationist. If you believe that one of the days god took to create the world could have lasted millions of years, you aren't a creationist. And if you believe that god could have used evolution as a creation tool, you aren't a creationist. You can believe in creation, without fitting the standards of creationism. If you believe the two can be reconciled, then you don't fit the definition of creationist.

[Zorba607]

18. almost

but not quite. Science and religion are mutually exclusive to them, but they aren't just a single breed. You got your young earth creationists (6000yrs and whatnot), your old earth creationists and the new kid on the idiocy block, intelligent design. While each is cut from the same ignorant, mindless cloth, and all are beneath contempt, there is at least some variation on the theme.

[rocktop15]

24. Alright pal--let's bash each other's beliefs

I believe in Intelligent Design. I consider myself a liberal Christian and believe in intelligent design. I believe in evolution--ie. things happening in stages---and I believe God played a role in this.

[neebob]

29. OIC

So creationists believe the earth was created in 6 days and is 6000 years old? Then I can't say I've ever met one. Personally, I no longer believe in god, and lately I've come to the conclusion there's no intelligent design (and therefore no intelligent designer), not even a higher power - it's all just wishful thinking that stems from the need for a purpose and the sensation of being inside one's body.

I don't want to believe that, but it's where I'm at. The only thing that stops me from believing it's all just a big accident and it just goes black when you die and there's no consciousness afterward is the fact the universe is here in the first place. But even if it was created by some intelligence, there's no reason to believe this isn't all there is. I just don't want to believe it.

[Jacobin]

11. Of course. He's a fundie

He has stated publicly that he does not accept evolution as a fact.

He's the leader of the New Middle Ages.

[ButterflyBlood]

16. you really think he's a real fundie?

come on. he's a Methodist.

his religion is just a ploy to win votes, nothing more.

[kiahzero]

19. He's a MINO

Methodist in name only.

Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

[ButterflyBlood]

20. I agree with you there

but I definately don't seem him as a true fundie. Even his story about it is so fake.

[rman]

27. * first was methodist, then became born-again

http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=3025
<snip>
"What does Bush believe?

Nominally a Methodist — a moderate Protestant — like his wife, George W. Bush is in fact a rather fervent born-again Christian. He was converted in his late 30s by none other than the Reverend Billy Graham, whose theology does not differ appreciably from that of well-known fundamentalist leaders, such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell."
<snip>

[TroubleMan]

13. He's a DESTRUCTIONIST

Him and his staff want to destroy civilization and reshape it under their "Pax Americana" dream of coporate slavery.

[historian]

22. he doesnt believe in anything

only money and doing what he is told

[moof]

26. Interesting, how do you determine what a ...

rich, drunk, drug taking, AWOL, warmongering, murdering liar is ?

[qazplm]

30. my understanding is

there are two types of creationists...

1. Intelligent Design: Those who believe that evolution et al. happened, just through the hand of their God.

2. Creationists: Those who think that evolution is wrong and Genesis is fairly accurate in its description of how things came to be. They are broken down into young earth and old earth creationists

This is just a very basic breakdown of course. I have respect for group one, not much respect for group 2.