What would be the defense for the soldiers involved in the torture?

[rumguy]

1. Poor planning: a few were put in charge of many prisoners.

2. Poor training: they were given little training in what was expected of them, and the confusion was greatly compounded by outside influences.

3. The setting: they were wrenched from their homeland and placed in a prison with a history of evil. It seeped into their souls.

What happened was wrong, no doubt. It was sickening.

But...should they be sacrificed on an alter of outrage?

edit: minor corrections

[brokensymmetry]

1. Maybe something more novel.

As I understand it, some civilian contractors were in the prison giving guidance (not quite orders, but close) to the troops.

But the contractors are exempt from all the rules.

The troops might have perceived that what they were doing was approved of, even encouraged.

Maybe?

[rumguy]

2. yep, that would be an opening...

[shraby]

4. The contractors

as well as the troops involved all fall under the rules of the Geneva Convention if you read it.

2. The following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever, whether committed by civilian or by military agents: (a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons, in particular: (i) murder; (ii) torture of all kinds, whether physical or mental; (iii) corporal punishment; and (iv) mutilation;

[izzie]

14. So far this is what I have read.

Odd the service men would do as the "gun for hire mercenaries" would want unless they had been told to by some one higher up. The service is about orders but I think there are orders you do not have to do if they are not in the rules.

[shraby]

3. They need to be punished

for their lack of common decency toward their fellow man BUT that punishment show go right up the chain of command for the lack of supervision of the people in charge of those prisoners under their care. No exceptions should be allowed as each person is responsible for their actions or lack of action. Anytime a situation exists where there is a group with absolutely no power whatsoever and another with all the power, the ones with power will and often do abuse it. A situation such as this should never be allowed without regular announced visits from and independent group of observers with private access to the prisoners to listen and see what is going on.

[shockingelk]

5. amphetamine-induced psychosis - n/t

[Piperay]

6. All of the above and NO they should not

be sacrificed and made into the scapegoats, this should be taken right to the top and the blamed placed squarely where it belongs (at the top). :mad:

[shockingelk]

7. "Kennedy and Byrd made me done it"

"The wasn't supportin' me. They been sayin' bad stuff about me. Made me feel worthless, all alone, inhuman. That's why I was laughin' at the nekid Iraqis. If it'ern't fer Pres Bush's love, I'd a done killed myself by now."

PS: Best move for Rove would be to get the perpetrators to give pro-Kerry sound bytes. Hope I didn't give anybody any ideas.

[Scurrilous]

11. If that doesn't work...

...they can always blame their behavior on Clinton's penis. The 'Clenis' defense is all powerful and NEVER fails.

[shockingelk]

12. cutting taxes

Cutting taxes may actually be the best solution if we really want to address the root causes of this sort of horseplay.

Or maybe it's the fault of feminists and homosexuals. What do you think, Pat?

[mopaul]

21. imagine if this was all happening under clinton........

they'd have already hung him in the white house lawn.
but they protect bush and ignore the treasonous acts.

[aquart]

8. Two problems:

1. They were inventive.
2. They clearly enjoyed it.

They aren't about to be sacrificed. They're about to have their asses handed to them for breaking the cardinal rule: The dimwitted twits took pictures AND THEY GOT CAUGHT.

They're too stupid to be allowed out in the rain.

[mopaul]

22. lets commit war crimes....AND FILM IT!....woo woo

they are jackin' off in public stupid

[Qanisqineq]

9. there is no defense for them

they cannot claim they were stressed from too many prisoners... they are smiling and happy in the photos. Claim poor training? Ha! The military is trained in the Geneva Convention. Away from home and scared? That may excuse someone being "shoot first before you get shot", but never happily torturing someone. My husband spent 10 months in Iraq and would never have done this shit. He sat and watched in absolute disgust.

As an army wife, I will defend enlisted soldiers for "just following orders" for quite a few thingswhen they are young and scared, but these people were happily performing these atrocities.

[Lexingtonian]

10. uh, research!

You know, checking whether Hussein's secret police and 'rape rooms' and stuff really did what Iraqis say they/it did!

It's just prelim work for the prosecution at Hussein's trial.

</sarcasm>

[MrPrax]

13. Best Defense?

"What would be the defense for the soldiers involved in the torture?"

1) Turn it into a partisan issue
2) Ignore the war crime
3) watch more TV
4) vote for the Yale Graduate

"But...should they be sacrificed on an alter of outrage?"!!!

Oh perish the thought...let's not have public opinion decide the fate of these misguided, poorly trained, poorly planned fools! Let's ...

1) pray for their conversion
2) integrate them into our communities
3) watch even more TV
4) have them tried as war criminals

[democrank]

15. Sacrificed on an altar of outrage?

You must be joking! These soldiers took part in heinous abuse and they don`t need training to know that is wrong. I wonder if you would be so forgiving if the culprits had been Iraqis.

[matcom]

16. no fucking excuses

lets discharge them and set them loose unarmed in Fallujah

no fucking excuses

[hel]

17. They were bored?

Honestly, I can't think of an excuse of the sadism of that people, cheerfully torturing other human beings and taking pictures proudly smiling of their accomplishments. War and murder might be excused under circumstances, but this is just plain evil, having no reason or a consequence other than causing pain and shame for the prisoners.

[Junkdrawer]

18. "Just following orders"....

Let's see how far up the chain that goes.

[soothsayer]

19. Horseplay

Just fooling around, no harm meant. Plus all the other excuses.

[mopaul]

23. some folks are just sadistic

we've all run into a few, they have no place in the u.s. military.

[KG]

20. apologists for this kind of depravity aren't hard to find

some of them are even DUers. :eyes:

[flamingpie2500]

24. This guy says he didn't have a chance to read geneva convention!!

One of the soldiers, Staff Sgt Chip Frederick is accused of posing in a photograph sitting on top of a detainee, committing an indecent act and with assault for striking detainees - and ordering detainees to strike each other.

He told CBS: "We had no support, no training whatsoever. And I kept asking my chain of command for certain things ... like rules and regulations."

His lawyer, Gary Myers, told the Guardian that Sgt Frederick had not had the opportunity to read the Geneva Conventions before being put on guard duty, a task he was not trained to perform.

Sounds like a great excuse for abuse to me!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1206725,00.html

[retread]

25. They could imitate their commander-in-chief and blame it on

Clinton!

[opihimoimoi]

26. No Defense, did the crime, do the time, hang head in SHAME

[Vladimir]

27. Should they be sacrificed!?

Imagine these were Serb soldiers and Albanian prisoners. Would you really be posing this question?

[Az]

28. Here is what to expect

They recieved orders. Their actions though visually horrendous did not do physical harm. They may not have understood the cutlural implications of some of their actions.

From this we can conclude that their punishment will be lite if not already served. The commanding officer will recieve the bulk of the punishment. The real criminals in this affair, the Mercs and the person's who brought the mercs into this and gave them authority, will be moved into the shadows and due to the noncompliance of the US in the world court, they will be untouchable. This of course will not sit well with world opinion and we will slide further into the depths until George and company offer up a sacraficial lamb or close ranks and hide their head in the sand even deeper.

[solinvictus]

29. Geneva Convention

Now they're claiming they had no training in Geneva Convention protocol for POW's, which is a lie because that is covered in basic infantry training. Even if, and this is a stretch of the imagination, they had no training in POW rules, it defies common sense to believe that you can essentially sexually abuse POW's, photograph yourselves in the act, and there would be no repercussions. Face it, these guys were sadistic idiots and they're now serving as multi-media recruiting posters for Al Qaeda.