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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 03:12 PM
Original message
How to improve democracy in the USA?
The self-proclaimed greatest democracy in the world suffers from several defects in citizen participation, some of which peculiar to itself and others common to many other democracies. Below is a list of several defects, ways to correct them, and the chances of the correction(s) proposed being passed.

1. The Senate giving small state way too much power relative to their populations.
Solution A: Abolish the Senate and make Congres unicameral. This is the most straightforward, efficient, and forward-looking solution, but also the one that has the least chances fo being passed. Thirteen states are enoguh to gut a constitutional amendment, and 34 states out of 50 have below-average populations, i.e. they benefit from their disproportionate power.
Solution B: Transfer powers from the Senate to the House à la the British Parliament in the first half of the 20th centuries (the two houses used to have equal status, but in the 1910s and again in the 1940s the House of Lords lost most of its legislative powers). This will have a slightly higher chance of being passed, but the prospects are still dismally low.

2. DC having no say in the federal government other than 3 electoral votes.
Solution: Either make DC a state, or give it full representation in Congress as if it were a state. Since DC is so heavily Democratic, this solution best be proposed when the federal government swings more to the Democrats, mainly with respect to Congress - the Democrats will be delighted to have 2 additional Senators and one more Representative.

3. The Electoral College discriminating against a) people living in large states, and b) politial minorities in states. Jim Robinson can cry for the EC till time ends, but he can't change the fact that his vote in presidential elections doesn't count because he is a Republican in safely-Democratic California.
Solution: Abolish the EC. Apart from the sizable minority of people who vote for their state's loser, there's also the issue of some states having a higher voters-for-the-winner per electoral vote ratio than others. New Hampshire's ratio in 2000 was in the 50,000 area, whereas New York's was 124,000. This solution's chance of getting passed depedns on the result of 2004: if, like 2000, the electoral vote doesn't tie in with the popular vote, then the EC will have a reasonable chance of being rid of finally, but if it doesn't then whatever remaisn of the debate about it following the 2000 fiasco will be extinguished.

4. House districts being gerrymandered to protect incumbents, so that upward of 80% of districts aren't even competitive.
Solution: Hand the redrawing of districts to a special, federal committee, 2/3s of whose members are proportionally selected by the Senate (not by the House in order to decrease the incumbent-protection incentive) and 1/3 of whose members are appointed by the SCOTUS from among geographical and cultural experts. The committee will usually be deadlocked between the Dems and the GOP, so proposals for redistricting will have to make geographical sense. It'll take

5. The plurality system in single-winner election making third-parties little more than spoilers.
Solution: Approval Vote or Condorcet. In Approval, voters can vote for as many or as few candidates as they want to, meaning that voting for one candidate has no effect whatsoever on the vote for the other candidates - hence, there's no need for strategic campaigning (e.g. the Greens not running in competitive elections) or for people to vote against their favorite candidates. In Condorcet, voters rank the candidates and the race is broken down into n*(n-1)/2 races between pairs of candidates; voting, from top to bottom, Gore-Nader-...-Bush doesn't help Gore more than voting Nader-Gore-...-Bush. Unfortunately, neither of these voting system is liable to be implemented; most politician favor plurality for selfish reasons, whereas most dissidents unfortunately favor an inferior electoral system, Instant Runoff (IRV).

6. The winner-take-all system deprives third parties of their representation in Congress.
Solution: Proportional representation, preferably national open list. It's intolerable that a large minority of the American voters isn't represented in Congress because its members live in districts with majorities they don't support - for example, Republicans in Oakland or Democrats in Dallas. Congress should be representative of all the people, not only the majority; the point of majority rule comes from the majority of the people (i.e. a majority in Congress) being enough to pass laws, as opposed to a majority of the majority of the people. While on a smaller scale, namely this of state-level PR, this has a reasonable chance of being achieved in the near future (Cynthia, where are you?...), the only way to ensure that everyone is equal under the counting process is a national system that requires a cosntitutional amendment.

7. Judges being appointed by political bodies often being incompetent or just perpetuating the legacy of unpopular presidents.
Solution: Give the ABA a formal role in the appointment of judges. For example, judges should best be appointed by three out of four bodies: the President, the Senate, the ABA, and the National Lawyers' Guild. Again, as in most ideal solutions for the USA's defects, this requires a constitutional amendment, which many unfortunately regard as tantamount to rewriting the bible.

8. Unpopular presidents being recallable only in case of impeachment.
Solution: The obvious one is, of course, to add federal recall (as well as intitiative and referendum) provisions. If, say, 8% of the eligible voters sign a petition to recall the president, then there's a recall, kind of like in California now but with a higher signature threshold for prospective candidates. This unfortuantely has a very slim chance of passing because the 2/3s majority in both houses required to amend the constitution is already enough to impeach and remove presidents - even though they may try it in case of an innocent but unpopular president.

9. People having to vote on two or three issues that they may not agree with either (or any) party completely on or that they just don't care about even though they care about others.
Solution A: Probably the most radical and also impassable one on this list, specialized legislatures. There should be 30-50 such legislatures, each dealing with one issue (e.g. health care) and having the ability to pass legislation regarding it, even though Congress can override SL legislation just like the Supreme Court can override Appeals Court rulings. People should have the right to vote in 5-7 such SLs, as well as in regular Cognressional elections; this way, they and not politicians will be able to choose the issues they care about the most.
Solution B: Slightly more mainstream, incorporate initiatives into the constitution. The main disadvantage of federal initiative is the sheer cost, even if there are initiative votes only once per year.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Redistricting changes and IRV are my biggest issues.
Especially the redistricting. I've done some redistricting work on ArcMap 8.2 (GIS) and it's SO easy to be geographically accurate when it comes to Population as determined by Census Block groups.

The fact that we politicise it klike we do is sickening.
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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. IRV...
...has some defects that make it superior to Plurality only in a two-party system where third parties are only spoilers.

Say that there are 100 voters and three candidates: L, the liberal, M, the moderate, and C, the conservative. Let's suppose further that those 100 voters are divdied as follows:

40: L-M-C
15: M-L-C
10: M-C-L
35: C-M-L

60 voters prefer M to L. 65 do M to C. And yet M has the least chance of winning under this scheme.

Now, let's say that 6 Conservatives who plan to vote C-M-L coordinate their voting and change their preferences to M-C-L. The new scheme will be:

40: L-M-C
15: M-L-C
16: M-C-L
29: C-M-L

Now, C drops and M gets elected. In other words, once the third party candidate - M in this case - becomes serious, strategic voting shows its ugly face again.

And wait - this gets worse. The Liberals have a way to have their candidate win even if the 60 Moderates and Conservatives vote as they do in the latter vote distribution. If they vote not for their own candidate but for their worst adversary - the Conservative - then they can get their own elected by voting against him. Just look below:

36: L-M-C
15: M-L-C
16: M-C-L
29: C-M-L
4: C-L-M

M drops and the Liberal wins 51-49 in the second round.


Not only is IRV far from perfect, but also it produces a counting nightmare. When the electoral system is based on giving candidates scores according to a clear score scheme (e.g. 1 vote to one candidate, 0 to all - Plurality; as many or as few 1's as you want to - Approval; 0 to one candidate, 1 to another, 2 to yet another... n-1 to the last; Borda), it's straightforward to count. Even with Condorcet it's possible to tally the votes as an n*n matrix. With IRV, however, it's impossible to do so; either there will be a separate tally for each possible ordering, of which there can be millions if the nubmer of candidates is 10 or more, or the votes will be counted in stages, which produces ballot security and convenience hells.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. My comments
Edited on Fri Aug-08-03 03:30 PM by goobergunch
SENATE (1)

Instead, I believe that the Senate should be elected through national party-list voting. There is a place for a smaller, more deliberative body than the House in the government, which is why I oppose Senate abolition (check out http://www.house.gov/rules/special_rules.htm for examples of House procedure horrors), but Wyoming being equal to California is ridiculous).

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA (2)

I concur.

ELECTORAL COLLEGE (3)

I agree in principle with EC abolition, but there needs to be national voting standardization (with a paper trail) at the same time.

HOUSE (4)

I would combine this with multi-member districts. For example, the Philadelphia metro area could have one 5-member district on the PA side instead of PA-1, PA-2, PA-6, PA-7, PA-8, and PA-13.

INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM/RECALL (8 and part of 9)

I'm not a big fan of recalls, but would consider one (after 2 years of the 4-year term) with an appropriate petition requirement. Also, I would suggest that legislation passed by Congress would be subject to referenda and that people could pass their own laws through initiatives with a certain petition requirement.
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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I forgot paper trail...
...you're absolutely right in that respect.

As for point #4, there's one problem with 5-member districts, namely that the still don't give small parties the representation they deserve. The Greens got enough votes in 2000 for 13 Representatives, and while this is below the German threshold of 5%, I think that the USA at large has large enough a population and conformistic enough a psyche that a threshold of 2-2.5% will be enough. By contrast, the threshold in a 5-member district is one vote more than 16.666...% of the votes, something that will make Republican/Democratic representation more accurate but will still not be fine enough for the Greens and the Libertarians.
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Heddi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Those are great ideas, but I think
the most important thing we can do is have mandatory civics classes throughout public education. It should be required, as are math and english.

I graduated in 1994---not *too* terribly long ago :crying over old age:, and the only time I learned about American Government was for 1/2 of one year of my Sr. year of high school. And I was only in the class because it was an Honors-level class. College Prep & General students weren't offered it.

People have *NO* idea how our government works. That's why what happened in 2000 was allowed to happen. American people don't know SHIT about the functions of the government.

I find it particularly sad when Jay Leno and the likes do their "Man on the street" schtick and ask people on the street if they can name the 3 branches of government, or name the speaker of the house, or ask when elections are held---simple things like that---and people cannot answer them correctly. People can't even name COLIN POWELL from a picture.

People need to know that they can be involved in the governmental process. People DO have power---right now, average people don't think they can do anything--shit! they don't even see the importance of VOTING!!! Why? Because they were never TOLD it was important. They were just told they had to do it, and either do or don't.

People need to understand the government that they live under and are a part of. I think that should be the first step in improving democracy in the USA, in addition to the very good points you made.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Parliamentary system?
I'm not expert on it, but the parliamentary system seems to be more democratic to me. A party is forced to get a majority of representatives or form a coalition government and a prime minister and cabinet is selected. If the prime minister doesn't perform, the party(s) in the government can demand that the leader step down and be replaced. If the majority party can't form a government - new elections.

The thing I like about it is that it gives "3rd parties" more power and a chance to become "major" parties. And, it reduces the power of the executive. As in BushCorp being allowed to start a war and not call it a war - thus dispensing with the approval of congress.

Certainly not a perfect form of government - but what is?

The senate: I would like to see it abolished or made more representative by increasing the number of senators and electing according to population. As I understand it, it was formed to protect the less populated southern states and slavery. Neither is likely - too bad. The thought that Trent Lott's, or Zell Miller's vote carries the same weight as Barbara Boxer's or Chuck Schumer's makes my stomach hurt.



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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Parliamentary system...
...may be better than presidential, but I'm not srue it's more democratic. It's possible to mandate that Congress can 86 a president with a 2/3s majority even without impeachment without making the system parliamentary.

The idea should be looked at, but I'm not sure it's better than a presidential system with additional safeguards (e.g. recall, congressional selection of secretaries).
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Simple
Deport all the Republicans.
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