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ACLU: President deliberately lies about PATRIOT ACT in speech

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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 12:43 AM
Original message
ACLU: President deliberately lies about PATRIOT ACT in speech
ACLU Says White House Is Engaged in Patriot Act Misinformation Campaign; Releases Point-By-Point Response to Bush Falsehoods

April 22, 2004

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Media@dcaclu.org

WASHINGTON - The American Civil Liberties Union today released an item-by-item rebuttal to a slew of false claims that President Bush made in Buffalo this week about the controversial USA Patriot Act.

"The president's speech was misinformation, pure and simple," said Anthony D. Romero, ACLU Executive Director. "The administration is making a series of deliberate misstatements to deceive the American public."

The President:

"By the way, the reason I bring up the Patriot Act, it’s set to expire next year. I’m starting a campaign to make it clear to members of Congress that it shouldn’t expire. It shouldn’t expire for the security of our country."

The Truth:

Less that 10 percent of the Patriot Act expires; most of the law is permanent and those portions that do sunset will not do so until December 31, 2005.

Much more:
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=15525&c=206&MX=1212&H=1
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. What this Administration has been lying to us??
I had nooooo idea.....hahahahahahaha
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm just glad the ACLU keeps pointing it out....
I hate the patriot act almost more than anything else..
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm bumping this, because its worth it.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm surprised * doesn't prefer something softer than the Constitution to
wipe his ass.

He couldn't explain how to replace the roll, nevermind constitutional law.
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. What is so bad about the Patriot Act?
Seriously, I haven't taken the time to read through all of the legalese. What are the main problems with it? How does it affect the lives of ordinary citizens? Why should we be concerned. And please, no replies of "because it's a step toward a fascist state!" or similar stuff. I'm interested in the specifics. It's always talked about as a whole rather than the parts that infringe upon civil liberties. Go ahead and flame away, but hopefully I'll get some useful information.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. It authorizes searches and arrest without warrant for one
remember the dirty bomber? They suspended every constitutional guarantee on him.
Then there's the Patriot II 9was that approbed?0 which can strip you of your citizenship if Ashcroft deems your posts here make you a terrorist. Then, next stop, Gitmo.
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's one that I heard about
The search without a warrant. And undoubtedly the detention of a U.S. citizen without access to legal counsel is absolute bullshit. But I'm not sure how a search & arrest without a warrant is different than a routine traffic stop. The officer tells you to do something, you hesitate, and he arrests you for failing to obey a lwaful order from a peace officer. Then he can search you based on your arrest. More bullshit of course.
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bonemachine Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Slate had a good series of articles on it
Lemme see if I can dig it up...

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087984
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Wrong? Too broad a definition of terrorism
I think the worst aspect of Patriot Act I is its broad "interpretable" definition of domestic terrorism (see section 802):

"A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act 'dangerous to human life' that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to: (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping." (Source: http://www.aclu.org/NationalSecurity/NationalSecurity.cfm?ID=11437&c=111 )

I think we're all comfortable with saying the acts of, say, Timothy McVeigh were an example of domestic terrorism. See clause (iii), above. But sliding down that slippery slope of clauses (i) and (ii) we find the possibility of some "future" tyrant wrongfully using the language of this act to indict dissidence when (through twisted logic) the act of dissidence can be construed as "endangering life". An ACLU illustration:

"One recent example is the Vieques Island protests, when many people, including several prominent Americans, participated in civil disobedience on a military installation where the United States government has been engaging in regular military exercises, which these protesters oppose. The protesters illegally entered the military base and tried to obstruct the bombing exercises. This conduct would fall within the definition of domestic terrorism because the protesters broke federal law by unlawfully entering the airbase and their acts were for the purpose of influencing a government policy by intimidation or coercion. The act of trying to disrupt bombing exercises arguably created a danger to human life – their own and those of military personnel."

As the ACLU page points out, once the Vieques Island protestors is declared to be "terrorists", all sorts of non-constitutional powers can be brought to bare on them. For example, the entirety of their personal property can be seized without prior hearing (section 806). In fact section 806 allows for the seizure of assets from anyone simply expressing support for the purported "domestic terrorists". So what's the problem? In the words (again) of the ACLU:

"The civil asset forfeiture power of the United States government is awesome. The government can seize and/or freeze the assets on the mere assertion that there is probable cause to believe that the assets were involved in domestic terrorism. The assets are seized before a person is given a hearing, and often without notice. In order to permanently forfeit the assets, the government must go before a court, but at a civil hearing, and the government is only required to prove that the assets were involved in terrorism by a preponderance of the evidence. Because it is a civil proceeding, a person is not entitled to be represented by an attorney at public expense if they cannot afford to pay an attorney. The time between seizure and forfeiture can sometimes be months; meanwhile, organizations or individuals whose assets are seized are forced to make do without the assets. Only the most financially flush non-profit organizations would be able to successfully defend themselves against government forfeiture. In short, without the full due process afforded in criminal cases, the U.S. government can bankrupt political organizations it asserts are involved in domestic terrorism."

I recommend you read the rest of the aforementioned ACLU page to learn more about what's wrong with the Patriot ACT. I also recommend that you google up "'Patriot ACT' definition terrorism" for reams of additional pages that will alert you to the threats to civil liberties that this act represents.

Patriot II, thwarted by a very patriotic leaking of its text before it could be made into law, would empower an AshKKKroft to strip a purported "domestic terrorist" of his citizenship -- and note, without those forfeited assets, it could be very hard to defend against this. Worse, it would expand use of the federal death penalty. Going back to the Vieques example, those citizens of conscience who sought to influence public policy by protest could find themselve in Gitmo stripped of all constitutional rights -- and, worse, possibly even stripped of their lives.

Patriot II is still on the agenda -- as stealth legislation, bits and pieces to be introduced as riders on other bills. If another major terrorist act occurs in the U.S. you can bet much of it will be rushed through just like Patriot I -- that is, only if Tommy Franks was wrong and we don't then make the leap to martial law.


The illusion of freedom in America will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.
---Frank Zappa

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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. More bad...
This from (http://truthout.org/docs_03/092203A.shtml ):

Patriot Act Finds Trouble in Texas
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Monday 22 September 2003

<snip>

"There are hundreds and hundreds of sections to the Patriot Act. My personal favorite is Section 213. Legal scholars have dubbed this the "Sneak and Peek" provision. Section 213 of the Patriot Act gives authority to agents of the Federal government to enter your home, search your belongings, tap your phone, tap your computer so every keystroke and website and email is recorded. They can do this without getting a warrant, and without ever letting you know they were there.

<snip>

"But this is all supposed to be about going after terrorists, right? Why should terrorists have access to the protections of the Fourth Amendment? They key here is the definition of 'terrorist,' and the Patriot Act leaves that definition very, very vague.

"Section 802 of the Act creates the federal crime of "domestic terrorism." Among other things, this section states that acts committed within the United States "dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws" can be considered acts of domestic terrorism if they "appear to be intended" to "influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion," or "to intimidate or coerce a civilian population." This provision applies to United States citizens, as well as aliens.

"Ever been to a protest? A lot of protests are acts intended to attack or throw light upon a particular government policy. According to the nebulous definition of 'domestic terrorism' as espoused by Section 802 of the Patriot Act, such acts of dissent now fall under the definition of terrorism.

<snip>

"The Patriot Act asks us to throw over the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, fourteenth and fifteenth amendments to the constitution, period.

***


It is my contention that civil disobediences are nothing but the latest form of voluntary association, and that they are thus quite in tune with the oldest traditions of the country.
---Hannah Arendt




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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. ha. I like the technical truth to the date
the last day of next year. when we're hardly into this one.

kind of like how gas isn't $2 a gallon, it's $1.9999
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick!
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-04 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. kick
:kick:
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