When were US Army helmets redesigned to resemble Nazi Germany's?

[Minstrel Boy]

And why?

Has there been a discussion about this? Has anyone else noticed the transformation of the profile of the helmet, and what it closely resembles?

Here's the helmet from the Vietnam era, which was long associated as the American design:



Here's the model used today:



Now, here's the German helmet in 1944:


So, what's up with this? Coincidence, or a subliminal nod to fascist glories past?

When I see these new helmets, I think, Nazi. Is that what they want me to think? Is the message supposed to be, "Yeah, we're baddass muthafuckin' Nazis"?

[toddzilla]

1. coincidence

It covers the side of the face, but still has good line of sight. Not many other ways to design them if you ask me. Now if they put a pointy spike on top, that would worry me.

[w13rd0]

4. pointy spike

was WWI/the Great War, not WWII. I think there was a supposed functional use for the spikey too. Goring people, poking holes in cloth to strain water, something like that maybe.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

23. Actually the US Marines had pointy spikes, too

back in the latter part of the 19th century, part of the dress uniform.

[Mistress Quickly]

2. maybe better safety features?

sometimes a helmet is just a helmet

[w13rd0]

3. Ear cover...

...the German design, the present US design, is simply more functional. Worry when they start favoring black or brown with red armbands...well, ok, you can worry now, but this isn't one of the things I'd be worried about.

[markses]

5. Point being: The Germans were on to a better helmet design

Even as far back as World War I (when this type of helmet made its first real appearance in mass production). In terms of functional protection, they're better. Now, in terms of symbolic association, they are of course troublesome. But, apparently, flying shrapnel is not particularly interested in symbolic association.

The old US helmets sucked functionally compared to the German (and subsequently, Nazi) helmets.

[joe_sixpack]

6. The new design came about

when the helmets began to be made of kevlar, a stronger and more effective material. Better coverage, and rides lower in the back, to protect the neck better.

[Fenris]

7. The helmet used by the Germans during World War II, the M1935

Was a descendant of the M1915 steel helmet that came into use during World War I. Derivatives of the M1935 were still in use in East Germany until reunification. It isn't an exclusively Nazi helmet.

I'll hazard a guess and argue that the helmet currently issued by the armed forces resembles the helmets of Germany because the designers realized that the pseudo-bell shaped helmet offered more protection for the back of the head and neck than the traditional steel pot helmet did.

[lectrobyte]

8. I don't think they were designed like that deliberately

since it does seem like the German/newer U.S. version would offer more head and ear protection than that '66 U.S. version pictured. There are only so many ways to design helmets, after all.

[Aristus]

9. The design is over twenty years old.

The only reason it resembles the Nazi helmet is because the design protects the neck and ears better than the old 'steel pot' helmet. Anyway, the 'coal scuttle' design is not original with the Nazis. It was used in WWI to replace the comical "pickelhaube" spiked helmet. It was broader and deeper than the WWII version. Incidentally, the "Nazi" helmet is still used today in Germany by firefighters.

[ET Awful]

10. Well. . . .

It's a safer design and better materials.

The new kevlar helmet is heavier, but much more protective than the old steel-pot design. . . . the main drawback is that unlike the old steel pot design, you can' t use the helmet as a cooking pot :). No, I'm not kidding, I've cooked up many a pot of ramen noodles out in the field in an old style helmet :).

[forgethell]

11. The new helmets

provide more protection to the back of the neck. Get a grip on the Nazi-stuff!!

[Vladimir]

12. Of course its not

coincidence. The Germans had a better design, and someone realised as much.

The Nazis also designed the most effective squad support weapon of WWII, the MG42 machinegun. It was adopted by NATO after the war and stayed in use in some NATO countries until the early 70s.

V

[Minstrel Boy]

13. Thanks for all your well-informed responses.

Moving on now to something else to be hysterical about... :)

[Touchdown]

14. 1982 or 3...It's called a Kevlar now.

The old Viet Nam types were called "Steel Pots". A fiberglass insert/webbing within a steel outer shell. Good for boiling water, and shaving, etc. Can stop a few bullets, from long range but is hardly bullet-proof.

The new ones are made out of Kevlar, a stack of strong fibers that are layered and glued into the helmet form, that can stop most bullets, some even at moderate range. Close range? I wouldn't want to try that. The german look to them has further protection of the neck, and ears. Kevlars are also about 30% lighter than the old steel pots. You cannot cook in them though. They stay on the head better than the old SPs do as well.

A tank (15-30 tons...who knows how heavy?) ran over a Kevlar when I was in the CAV, and it bent the helmet a bit, so it wouldn't fit on the guy's head (he was a dumbshit anyway! Morter grunts! :eyes: ), but it was still in one piece and barely deformed. No cracks or breaks. A steel pot would've been flattened like a beer can.

[MadHound]

15. I think you might be reading too much into this

What you think of as the "Nazi" helmet has actually been providing superior head and neck protection for hundreds of years. The design covers the back of the neck, and come further down the side of the face, thus covering the temple and ears. Developed during the middle ages, the twentieth century version of this helmet didn't originate with the Nazis, it was a late development of the Germans during WWI. The traditional "tin pot" of the Americans, while providing superb protection for the top of the head, was inadequate for protecting the sides of the head and back of the neck. I'm sure that part of the reason that the US didn't go to this design earlier is the fear of reactions like yours. During the Vietnam War, memories of WWII were too fresh, too raw to have this kind of symbolism, no matter how helpful it is, appear on American soldiers. But with the WWII generation passing away, and the sensabilities of Americans dulled by the passage of time, the armed forces felt it was OK to provide our troops with this superior head protection. My question is how many lives were lost needlessly in the past due to the lack of this kind of head protection?

So don't freak on the shape of the helmet, just realize that it is saving the lives of our soldiers, and be thankful that we have gotten over our hangup on the symbology enough that we can finally provide our soldiers with the superior head protection they deserve.

[theboss]

16. The Nazis also designed the Stealth Bomber

And rocket technology . . . and the Volkswagon.

Calm down with the Nazi shit.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

17. I believe it happened under Reagan

I think the first campaign in which the new helmets were used was the Grenada affair. I remember that there was a definite consciousness at the time about their resemblance to German helmets. The helmet was immediately nicknamed the "Fritz", a name it still bears. I also believe that German troops while serving with UN forces wear it (I believe I have seen blue-colored "fritzes" on German troops).

[rockymountaindem]

18. I saw a show about armor

that said the design of the German helmet that we've adopted goes back to the 1400s. If you look at some old suits of plate armor from around the 1420s, they have similar styles.

On the other hand, they may have been designed to reflect the storm troopers helmets from Star Wars, which were in turn modeled on the German helmet... dum dum dum... perhaps Bush* is out to start the galactic empire.

[ex_jew]

19. Did you see Kimmitt's sidearm holster with black straps on Fox yesterday ?

It creeped me out ! What type of Brig. General wears a sidearm for an interview, and why the black straps ? My son says if the strap goes diagonally across his chest then it's time to leave this country !

[Lisa]

20. actually the German design dates from the Middle Ages

(added on edit -- I finally found a link to a pic!)
http://www.plessisarmouries.co.uk/helmets/sallets/c1450-60/



The Metropolitan Museum in NYC has this "sallet" from the 1400s which looks very similar to the design used by the Germans in WWI -- though you have to imagine it being worn up on top of the head, minus the eye-slot. (Just as the British military helmet of most of the 20th century, which was also used for awhile by the US, resembled the medieval "kettle hat".)

So I don't associate it with the Nazis, strictly speaking ... it's actually a pretty good design in terms of offering protection to the back of the head -- something that the old "tin hat" wasn't so great at. (That was one reason why the US decided it wanted a different design.) There is a great picture in the Met book of US defence scientists using tools from a medieval armoury (stake and raising hammer) to make the prototype. (Which to my eyes looks something like a French "cervelliere", a type of helmet which was often worn under a heavier helm.)
http://www.albionarmorers.com/armor/crusades/cervelliere.htm

There are certain solutions to the problems of body protection (defend the vulnerable parts of the body while still remaining mobile, comfortable, and able to see/hear) which go way back but are relevant today -- in terms of the shape, material, etc. used. BTW, I wore a (visored) sallet during one of last year's peace marches --dressed up as a medieval knight carrying a banner with "No to Bush's Crusade" -- and visibility was okay. Though one of the marchers called me on the armour being about 50 years out of period for a "crusade". (Darned history students.)

[leftofthedial]

21. Unter den Reaganfuehrer

Auch mit die Disinformazion Programmen.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

22. maybe the Germans had the better design?

Thats not the first time thats happened. They came up with the automobile, limited access automobile highways and aspirin before we did.