Why does america hang on to this notion of the Cleaver family?

[jerryskid]

I live Bakersfield California, more like Bushtown, but that is besides the point. Everywhere I go I see children being bossed around to do illogical things by their parents. My parents have always taught me to speak my mind in a "nice manner." But when it comes to other household its loke Big Brother. You quesiton the "Man" and he will beat you or something. Why would America support such an illogical and strange way of behavior? I just do not know.

[Bill McBlueState]

1. what kinds of illogical things?

"Illogical" is an interesting way to put it. I'm curious what you mean.

I don't think parents should be expected to have fully logical grounds for every rule they set in the house, but I agree that many parents have unrealistic expectaions for their kids.

[jerryskid]

2. Here is an example

Okay here it is, i got a c on a math test. My parents chose to punish me which i understand. They said i couldnt pracitce with my band anymore, its to much of a "time-sink." but them i explained to them that i play with my band about two hours a week and watch t.v. about 10-15 so why dont you take the t.v. away and they promptely said no. Evne though i gave them an alternative of what their goal was and it would be more effective, they still said no.

[Bill McBlueState]

5. I was thinking young kids...

but it sounds like you're of an age where a discussion of the case with some (civil) give and take would be reasonable.

They say music helps kids to develop their logical thinking skills... maybe more music and less TV would help? :shrug:

;)

[jerryskid]

8. Totally agreed

In fact i have cut back dramatically on my t.v. time and yes i agree there is a bias coming from me. I appreciate your honesty on the fact. but what exactly do liberal liberal parents use as their parenting skills and strategies. i think i know because my parents are pretty liberal but, they have some definite conservative views on somethings

[JVS]

20. *speaking in Dr. Evil voice* "you just don't get it, do you?"

The goal of the parent is to get you to do better through incentive, not merely better time management. By removing the the band they knew they would make you unhappy enough that you would want to do better and hopefully regain permission to play in the band. They took away the band permission because they knew it would get you. If you decide to work hard to improve your math skills it is likely thay you'll be cutting out a lot of the TV time as well. The fact that you would even ask for a different permission merely confirms the effectiveness of their choice.

[OKNancy]

24. Some things never change

Ann Landers wrote:
A teen wrote to me and said, "My mom is always bugging me. She says get off the phone, clean up your room, do your homework! What can I do Ann?"
Ann Landers replies, "It's simple dear. Get off the phone, clean up your room and do your homework."

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. with thinking like that

you should be given higher grades in math - but maybe not in psychology ;-)

[ieoeja]

28. My Guess

They feel your band is a bigger distraction. This is, of course, an attempt at mind reading (mine reading theirs and theirs reading yours). Parenting often is.

Since you would so willingly trade your TV for your band, I would bet that your band occupies your thoughts a lot more than TV. TV often doesn't occupy an individual's thoughts even while watching it. And since your poor grade is likely connected to your thinking, not your doing....

I would say their only mistake in all of this was using the term "time-sink" in place of "distraction". Ask them if that isn't what they really meant.

[bkcc]

3. it's simple

We hang onto this notion because June Cleaver was such a hottie!

;)

[apnu]

4. I have no idea... but I have a few suspicions...

The GOP would love to go back to the Cleaver-esque, Ozzie and Harriet 1950's nostalgia TV "lifestyle" So they are brow-beating everyone else in that direction.

But why? I think our memory of the 1950's has become misty over time, much like the 1960's. Somehow the 50's are somewhat like the golden era of modern conservatism.

That being said, I think people A) buy this BS, B) as a "golden era" there is a tendency to get back to that "good time" and C) there are large sections of our population that believe things have become too liberal (acceptance of homosexuality leading that charge) and they want to get back to a time where roles, sexes and races were easily defined and nobody (in TV land at least) crossed those lines. A time where women dressed like "women" and had hair like "women" and men were "men". Africans lived in "darkie-town" or on "the other side of the tracks" and could be ignored. A time where everything was stable (lie), and financial security was easy to obtain (also a lie)

Its the perception of the 50's as this magic time that people want to get back to, and since our memory of the 50's has faded with time, we easily forget that the 1950's were actually a bad time for America culturally even though it was a good time financially. (Thanks to us being the only ones left standing after WWII)

[salib]

12. Much more to it still

I feel there is much more to why this "Leave It To Beaver" nostalgia is so strong with the repugs. Look at the example given: his parents would not listen to reason with his punishment. That is because they are not punishing him for his benefit only. They are mostly punishing him for their own satisfaction. I see this all the time with parents where they are more concerned with whether they are "in charge" than whether they are raising the child well. It is easy to slip into, especially when the issues get "dicey" or "sensitive" (e.g., sex, drugs, politics, values) or if the issue seems chronic (grades, bad influences as friends, etc.).

You can see it time and time again in the * Admin, look at the flap over Condi. It is about control, appearance of authority, and general secrecy. And what does that say about the maturity of the members of this Admin?

[apnu]

23. yeah....

good points there.

[Muddleoftheroad]

27. Parental control is important

It seems they took away something that mattered as punishment.

[Sandpiper]

14. There was also that little three year "police action"

On the Korean peninsula during the 1950s.

[apnu]

22. Oh i haven't forgotten it, my Grandfather is MIA from that (eom)

[Warpy]

6. It's the boring cornflakes family we all wish we had

..but few of us did, and who most of us would have been bored to distraction by had we gotten it.

[BOSSHOG]

7. A little rough on the Beaver last night huh Ward?

Jerry I'm not quite following your thought pattern however growing up is hard on a body. One day you are fighting the man, the next day you are the man (or the parent) wondering what the fuck has gotten into the little shit.

[ronnykmarshall]

9. You're in my old home town!

Thank god my family has some fellow liberals in town.

My step dad is a bookkeeper and he has to keep his mouth shut about politics when I client comes in. Every know and then some one will suprise him and start in about "that god-damn Bush".

One of their favorite clients always comes in and says "are there any democrats in here?".

[jerryskid]

13. So you understand

So you used to live in ol' Bakersfield. I am so embarressed to be even seen here this plave is horrible. I have never seen this many oil drill in my life. Did you got to school here? and if you did which ones?

[ronnykmarshall]

15. I went to West High

I'm MUCH older than you. I graduated in 1979.

When to Munsey Elementary. We moved in 1972 and after my parents divorced we moved back in 1977.

Bakersfield is a hard place to live when you're a liberal.

Hell, try being GAY and liberal. It wasn't pretty.

[jerryskid]

16. NO please you getting the wrong impression

I was not trying to pic up on you or anything i promise. I was just wondering if i knew you in some way. I totally understand how it is hard being gay aswell as liberal in bakersfield. i myself am not gay but i have three friends who are gay and liberal and they have a very hard time.

[ronnykmarshall]

17. LOL!!

I didn't take it that way.

[jerryskid]

18. Okay thank you

I have been living here for about six years and during the times where one is supposed to develop their political views. im so glad i didnt fall in with the masses here. i get so much stigma for being a liberal. at one point i was talking to this guy about the war in iraq and i said we went their for oil. he told me we wouldnt take one gallon from iraq. that is theirs. well i guess he was wrong huh.

[ronnykmarshall]

19. Where did you guys move from?

I always was an outcast when I came to my politically views. Luckily my friends were all liberals.

My family (at the time) was GOP'ers. Luckily they grew out of it.

It was a "phase".

[jerryskid]

21. I am kinda proud of myself

We moved from ferndale california, humbolt county. liberal land.
I have been able to convert a couple people to liberals and i have been able to convince some people of evolution aswell. The thing is there is about five really liberal kids at my school and i am best friends with one of them. The rest are really not nice and i dont like them. it really pisses me off when i talk about aborition and girls dont agree with it. that makes no sense to me. it is girls like that that are going to get abortion banned and then women wont have a choice at all.

[ronnykmarshall]

25. Good for you

I'm glad that people your age speak out.

What a culture shock for you to move from Humbolt to Kern. YIKES!

Keep up the good fight.

[Sandpiper]

10. Because for conservatives, it presents

An idyllic, santized version of the decade they're trying to drag us back to, the 1950s.

Dad went to the office in a suit, Mom wore her pearls while mopping floors and baking cakes, Wally and the Beave didn't do drugs or get their girlfriends knocked up.

Strangely though, during the height of the "moral" 1950s, you never saw a single black or brown face on Leave it to Beaver. I guess that's because they would have had to build sets for the segregated lunch counter and the school for darkies on the outskirts of town.

[supernova]

11. Pleasantville

I don't know many people who actually want to live in Pleasantville.

But the neocons have some vague collective memory of it, apparently.