Clinton and his notorious pardons at the end of his term,

[rainy]

My dad keeps saying he hates Clinton, but the only thing he mentions about his presidency is that he pardoned those crooks. What is the real story of those crooks? And was this a real low point in Clinton's term.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

1. Yeah, I just stumbled upon a list at a right-wing site yesterday.

It does look a little suspicious when his brother, Roger, was one of the guys pardoned. Could somebody perhaps explain this strange occurence?

[amazona]

2. you would not pardon YOUR OWN BROTHER ?

I cannot imagine a person with soul so cold that he would not pardon his own brother, especially for a victimless drug crime.

If anything, Clinton should have pardoned more people. We all thought he was going to pardon Peltier but then the South Dakota governor and some FBI agents got to him and he changed his mind. Sad.

[jorno67]

18. Roger

was cuaght with less drugs than Rush.

[Deb-Ter]

20. ???

I didn't think Rush was 'caught' with any drugs. Isn't that the big case that his attorney is making right now?

[SeveneightyWhoa]

23. Would you be defending that action if..

..Bush did it? Somehow I doubt it.
A criminal is a criminal.

[monobrau]

31. It's called conflict of interest

If you are a public official you shouldn't be involved in the judicial process where it concerns your family, period.
Pardoning family members would be a horrible precedent to set.

[terisel]

5. Pardon for Marc Rich

Here's a link showing Republican and Democratic connection to Marc Rich and short list of some presidential pardons.

Bush Sr. also pardoned a Cuban terrorist and a Pakastani drug dealer. I think the pardon of Roger Clinton was basically a family affair.

Bush Sr. pardoning of Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger essentially ended the Iran-Contra special prosecutor's case against Bush Sr., as Weinberger could have provided evidence against Bush. Once pardoned The Special Prosecutor had no leverage, so in a sense Bush Sr. was pardoning himself. There is probably a lot of information on the internet about this.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/02/18/clinton.oped.02/

[NewJeffCT]

21. I believe on Rich

I believe on Marc Rich that it quietly came out not too long ago that there was no wrongdoing on the Rich pardon. Rich's lawyer, I believe, is Plame leaker Scooter Libby.

[Poiuyt]

3. All presidents pardon at the end of their term

Clinton pardoned about 400 as did Reagan. I think your father was refering to Marc Rich, who fled the country on tax evasion charges.

Many pardons have been controversial. Perhaps the most controversial was Gerald Ford's preemptive 1974 pardon of Richard Nixon for his actions in the Watergate Affair. More recently, George Bush's 1992 pardoned six Reagan administration officials involved in the Iran-Contra Affair, including Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger.

[gristy]

6. Yes, the pardon of Rich is a huge black eye for Clinton

and the dems. Gives credence to the views of many who say there is little difference between the parties. A real shame.

[CastorTroy]

9. Wasn't Scooter Libby, "Big Time" Cheney's COS

lobbying for this? I don't believe it to be a black eye. Israel, as a nation, lobbied for this.

[lancdem]

16. Good point

[Festivito]

19. I think you are sadly mistaken gristy.

Check papau response 12.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1309851#1309945

I recall that Rich helped in M.E. peace making and for that deserved some slack, but, still had to pay the money. I hadn't realized that Rich's prosecution may have been partisan politics, which would argue even more slack.

It's only a black-eye to those who do not know this, especially to those when the Republican hidden-agenda attack machine hit the news out of nowhere with disingenuous stories that take time to debunk.

[gristy]

26. Here's an article from CNN on Clinton's reasons for pardoning Rich

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/02/18/clinton.fact.check/

But my concern about Rich's pardon is very simple. He was charged with a crime. He fled the U.S. If he was innocent of all charges he should have returned for a trial, plea, or whatever. If he was guilty of any of the charges then he shouldn't have been pardoned. I mean, what are our courts for, if not to determine the guilt or innocence of Americans charged with a crime?

[shrike]

25. Blumenthal has an interesting take on the pardons in his book

Apparently Clinton was way behind other presidents in the pardon category and he didn't want to be remembered as less-than-compassionate -- hence the large number there at the end. Blumenthal was tap-dancing a bit with Rich, but he does point out that Rich would have been the first person ever prosecuted on those charges, and that the Israelis lobbied for him. That talk about Clinton getting a payoff is ridiculous; I always thought it was. I don't think Clinton had entirely clean hands, but it is interesting.

[rfranklin]

4. Most pardons are given to crooks...

For instance, when Pappy Bush left the White House, he pardoned the Iran Contra crooks, who would have incriminated him if he hadn't done so.

Also of interest:

'The very first pardon granted by the elder President Bush went to Armand Hammer, the late chairman of Occidental Petroleum Corporation, who pleaded guilty in 1975 to making illegal contributions to Richard Nixon's reelection campaign. Not long before he received his pardon, Hammer gave over $100,000 to the Republican party and another $100,000 to the Bush-Quayle Inaugural Committee. The team of lawyers that won Hammer his pardon included former Reagan Justice Department official, Theodore Olson. While Mr. Olson’s name is well-known now – he was recently nominated to be Solicitor General – it was more important at the time that he was a close friend of C. Boyden Gray, the White House Counsel, and Richard Thornburgh, the Attorney General.

Let me note one more example from the end of the first Bush Administration: In January 1993 – two days before leaving the White House – President Bush pardoned Edwin Cox, Jr., the son of a wealthy Texas oilman. The Cox pardon was lobbied for by Bill Clements, the former governor of Texas, who contacted James Baker, then White House Chief of Staff. Not surprisingly, Mr. Baker mentioned the Cox family largesse in a note to the White House Counsel, referencing Edwin Cox Sr. as a "longtime supporter of the president’s." The Cox family had in fact contributed nearly $200,000 to the Bush family’s political campaigns and to other Republican campaign committees. Shortly after the president pardoned his son, Cox Sr. made a generous contribution to the Bush Presidential Library. His name is now etched in gold on the exterior of the Library alongside the names of other "benefactors" – those contributing between $100,000 and $250,000.'

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200103/010329.html

[CastorTroy]

7. Bush I pardoned a F***ING MASS MURDERER!!!

I hear this one often. All I ever have to say is: at least Clinton did not pardon a goddamned butcher. Orlando Bosch blew up a Cuban airliner, killing 90 or so people. Bush pardoned a goddamned mass murdering terrorist (just one that happened to agree with US policy).

[KG]

10. actually, i believe chimpyspoppy paroled bosch.

not a pardon. still inexcusable, but let's be accurate.

[CastorTroy]

13. My bad . . .

He was still lobbied hard by Jebby for this PAROLE.

I stand corrected.

[July]

33. It may have been a pardon.

I, too, thought that Orlando Bosch had been pardoned by GHWAsshole. So I did a Google search and read the first few items that came up. All of them referred to whatever was granted as a "pardon," sought by Jeb on behalf of Bosch. I have a vague notion that a parole was what got him into the U.S. in the first place, but I haven't looked into it in any depth.

Anyone have the whole story?

[Catherine Vincent]

8. Tell your dad that Clinton's pardons are notorious only because

right wing shills told him they were notorious. That is what pardons are for Crooks, not Innocents. Also, ask him if he was equally upset with Bush I pardoned a terrorist?

[Nlighten1]

11. Bush's pardons will make Clinton's pale by comparison.

Just wait...

[papau]

12. There were no pardons of "those crooks" under Clinton - unlike Reagan/Bush

pardons of Iran Contra treason and of drug dealers that had helped the GOP.

The most famous Clinton pardon -Marc Rich - was requested by the heads of foreign governments - and the pardon given was only for criminal charges and required settlement of the civil charges.

Rich operated an accounting that by-passed US price controls/taxes under Reagan - indeed it was the same accounting all the major oil companies used. It was indeed a con - and the major oil companies all paid huge fines in the late 80's.

However Rudy G - then DA and later Mayor of New York - needed more PR to advance his political career and could not chase the oil companies as they owned the GOP then and now. So Marc Rich's "little" oil operation was targeted and indeed he was found to owe about $200 million in taxes/fines. But Rudy had a fellow who had given money to Dem types - so he could go after Rich with RICO (the way one chased the Mafia). A year later the USSC said that no more RICO could be used in this type of a tax case. But Rudy would not drop it.

Marc Rich saw the error of his ways and gave to the GOP and hired GOP lawyers - some of whom joined the George W Bush Justice Dept - nice if your like irony - and sanity prevailed with the criminal complaint being removed and the US and New York State finally getting their civil fines paid a decade late. Of course the GOP wanted more media lies about Clinton and suggested the pardon was in return for future funding of the Clinton Pres Library - and indeed Marc Rich's wife had sponsored a fund raiser - although I do not recall it being for the library.

In any case I'll give 10 to one your Dad can not name a crook pardoned by Clinton. To be sure I THINK SOME OF THE PARDONS WERE TO CROOKS THAT HAD DEM CONNECTIONS VIA LOCAL DEM POLITICIANS. But I doubt your Dad could name the fellow from Florida, or the Dem politician that demanded/requested that Clinton pardon him. All pardons went through the usual Justice review - nothing sneaky.

And while a few were undeserved, such as the Florida one, one should remember the terrorists and drug dealers that Reagan/Bush pardoned with no media circus - and one should remember that the one you hear the most about = Marc Rich - was one of the cleanest and most deserving. Unless the CEO's at the US oil companies were going to prison over a tax plan whose legality was later found lacking, there was no reason to hold jail over Rich's head.

[jor_mama]

14. Can the president pre-emptively pardon himself?

It will be interesting (hopefully in just a few months) to see who 43 pardons.

[JohnLocke]

38. No.

It's constitutionally phrohibited. :)

[mopinko]

15. duh

how can you pardon anyone that is not a crook?

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. Good point.

Except for those wrongly convicted. :hi:

[Misinformed01]

22. Can you please tell your Dad for me

that Marc Rich's attorney was Scooter Libby....who is now Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff?

There's a reason that the "investigation" into Marc Rich's pardon didn't go far...there always is with this band of clowns.

Thanks.

[ellie]

30. I don't have documentation,

but I remember watching an interview with Clinton and he said if he didn't pardon Rich, Bush would because Rich was friends with Cheney. I did a Google search and couldn't find it. But I remember watching it.

[MetaTrope]

24. Clinton deserves a little smack for folding up Iran/Contra investigation

The Republicans have taken the initiative ever since then.

[Piffle]

27. Clinton did no wrong

All the pardoned were liberals and that is all that matters.

Clinton was our saviour for eight years and we can speak no ill of the great man.

[FlemingsGhost]

28. Tell your dad Clinton is no longer President

John Kerry and George W. Bush are running for the position in November.

His choice...

[spanone]

29. I'll be curious to see who bush* pardons. I predict a long vile list.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Whatever happened to the separation of powers?

Why should any president get to pardon people? Isn't that the job of the courts?

Doing it at the end of a term seems particularly wrong. It means there's no way the electorate can pass judgement on it. If it were done before a re-election they could at least take it into account when voting.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. the only thing i am pissed at Clinton for is NOT pardoning Susan McDugal

[chelsea0011]

35. But sometimes, Neil Bush, you never need to be pardoned

Because you were bailed out before you got busted.

[President Jesus]

36. this one list doesn't not look good, though

not matter how it's spun, the Rich episode just looks kinda sleazy. look at the crazy amount of soft money donations Denise Rich made during the 90s.

[Bridget Burke]

37. How's that again?

No, I don't see anything particularly scandalous about the Rich pardon. All this right-wing spin was unspun long ago. Looks like somebody is really trying to cause a distraction--current administration in trouble?

Pappy Bush's pardons were lots worse. Some done to save himself--didn't want to be called as a witness. Wouldn't be prudent.