The dems can finish Bush* on Iraq now. But, as per usual, are AWOL

[John_H]

Chimp is digging is own grave on his Iraq lies by going after everyone who tells the truth. Instead of handing him a power shovel, the dem leadership is stretching out a hand to yank his dumb ass out.

All they have to say is this:

"How many people need to come forward with the truth for you to start reporting it, (Wolf, Chris, Paula, Judy, Larry, etc.)?

The president's own envoy to Niger toldthe truth about the pre war lie. Bush called him a liar and ruined his wife's career.

His own Budget Director told the truth about the cost of the Iraq War. The president said he was wrong and then fired him.

Then his own Treasury Secretary came forward with the truth about the president's obsession with Iraq at the expese of fighting terrorism. Bush called him a liar and put him under investigation.

Now his own terrorism czar has come forward with the truth.

Either all these people--people with impeccable reputations--are liars or the president is. Do you plan on asking your next administration guest about this?"

Instead the Dems send out Biden and Lieberman--the most pro war Dems they can find. It's time for major changes in Kerry campaign staff, DNC leadership, and house and Senate leadership. Now.

[slinkerwink]

1. that's why those who defend Biden on here are fucking idiots...

[edzontar]

35. Agreed. Biden is KILLING us with his pro-war, McCain for VP

Crap.

Assholes like Tweety may eat this up--but this is BAD strategy for the party right when the mask has FUCKING COME OFF for everyone to see.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Why should they make this appear partisan?

When the info without the partisan position added appears MORE damning?

[Alpharetta]

3. that would make a good letter to the editor

Start at this point:

"How many people need to come forward with the truth for you to start reporting it, (Wolf, Chris, Paula, Judy, Larry, etc.)? ...

[mike_c]

4. kinda frustrating, isn't it?

I'm predicting a repeat of the 2002 clusterf**k as the dem leadership stumbles all over itself to not appear too different from the repugs.

[Guaranteed]

5. Yup...we should be able to knock him out with this one.

Let's hope Kerry ends it here. I don't think he's going to get another opportunity like this.

[Solidarity]

6. He's Busy

He busy reading books right now. Leiberman and Biden are standing in for him. The Democratic party certainly cannot appear to be too partisan now!

[Bandit]

26. There are certainly a lot of books worth reading out there

I'm sure it is an activity we will never accuse Bush* of doing. A lot of important information comes from books and it sounds like Senator Kerry wants to be prepared not like some we could mention.

[KG]

7. since most dems shamelessly went along with this charade,

for, um, 'political expedience', they are just going to play CYA and pretend it never happened.

[NewHampster]

8. Wrong (imho) - The Kerry Camp and we need to keep quiet

and let the media do this. Let them ask the questions and keep bushco on the defense.

please see my post http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1266500

edit: added IMHO :)

[bain_sidhe]

11. Ha! great minds think alike, but some (you) type faster! eom.

[buycitgo]

12. that's FUNNY!

let the MEDIA do it?

I wish I had your confidence, but look what happened to AWOL, even after that nuclear crap came up (nuke air to air missiles on F102s)

they comPLETELY dropped the ball on that, while happily pouncing on Kerry's VVAW testimony

they'll NEVER cover this stuff without being forced, kicking and screaming into it

the dems are the only ones who can do this

time and again I HEARD reporters make the excuse that they didn't cover AWOL, Harken, drugs, and other stories about Bush during the selection campaign, cause the "dems didn't raise the issue/PUSH the issue themselves!"

they used that excuse time and again, and they'll use it after this fiasco ends with the brainless one re-ensconced in MY house

[bain_sidhe]

19. The media are more like sharks

than like partisans. If they smell blood in the water, a lot of them WILL go into a feeding frenzy. Not all of them, to be sure. But Dobbs is out there, some of the White House reporters are "pressing" on it...

And one more bit of encouragement - the threat of WH "retaliation" isn't quite as powerful as it was earlier in the chimp's term. When reporters were looking at four years of sources drying up and being cut off from access, that could ruin their career. But if the WH comes down too hard now, the reporters have a powerful weapon of their own, because they know, and the white house knows, they got the chimp close enough to steal the election with their negative coverage of Gore and their positive coverage of the chimp. With the election so close (yes, months away, but close in terms of career making/breaking for reporters) the unspoken "cut me off and you'll get six months of really BAD coverage" threat is very real.

**edited for subject-verb agreement! Ok, I'm a grammar wonk, what can I say?**

[bain_sidhe]

9. I disagree! It is vitally important that we don't let

the chimp campaign spin this as "just another partisan attack." People will discount the real, actual seriousness of this information if they can be convinced it's "just campaign-type negative attacks." That's why chimpy's minions are trying so hard to link Clarke, who isn't affiliated with the Kerry campaign, with Rand Beers, who is.

Yes, this can be a major factor in taking down Bush, but prominent Dems should be "concerned" rather than enthusiastically pushing the information. Leave that to the "non-partisan" or "neutral" types. Jimmy Carter gave a good swat earlier, I'm looking for less polarizing Dems to do the same in a low key way. The point is not to hammer it home, the point is to keep the story "on" until people pay attention.

Of course, that's just mho. I could be wrong. :D

[MarianJack]

13. I Agree With You

I firmly believe that if your enemy is hanging himself, let him do it!

[NewHampster]

14. Well said

even if you type slowly. :toast:

[bain_sidhe]

20. Thank you!

:toast:

[aldebaran]

10. Bob Graham is still hanging in there

He's been as outspoken as anyone with the clout to get published by the mainstream.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/22/politics/trail/22TRAIL-CLARKE.html?hp

[Malva Zebrina]

15. and Bush is using Lieberman and Biden to destroy our party

McClellan just cited the remarks of the two to prove that Clark's statements mean nothing.

Ain't that nice? Lieberman and Biden--traitors to the Democrats. I would not be surprised to see them endorsing Bush instead of Kerry. If I were Kerry I would forbid them from attending his rallies or mentioning their names alongside his. I would blackball the both them from all meetings connected to the Democrat party where Kerry is present. There was no need for this-Lieberman is jealous of Kerry-he probably thought he would get the nomination since he has had experience with Gore's campaign, and-even if they believed it, there was no pressing need to say it if they had any loyalty whatsoever -- that's Lieberman for ya--anything to see his name in lights, in the midst of things, when he does nothing .

[bain_sidhe]

18. 'Nother thought... It could be as you say

and if so, I would be disappointed, but not particularly surprised. However, it's also possible that these two are playing a longer game... After this story percolates through the country, the testimony is heard and the evidence is presented by the Clinton guys to the commission, they can point to these statements as proof of their objectivity. Imagine the future damage if Biden/Lieberman come out in a few weeks and say "I didn't want to believe it - none of us wanted to believe the President of this country could do such a horrible thing. I even said so, when the accusations were made. But, now that we know more, I must sadly conclude that it's all true. I am appalled! And you should be too!"

[Malva Zebrina]

28. You mean they want to have it both ways

:-)

[bain_sidhe]

29. Yup. And isn't that a shock? ;-)

They're politicians. But, as I said below, if that IS what they're doing (and we won't know until they come out with the second move), I think we've got to let them have it both ways. Sucks, yeah, but Kerry's got exposure on the IWR vote, and HE has to have cover, so they get it too.

"WHAT???? Bush LIED!?!?!" (cue appropriate expression of shock and dismay)

:eyes:

Did I mention it sucks?

*edit: my typing sucks too.**

[SoCalDem]

27. Yes.. it seems as if there are always "just enough" Dems who come forward

after every "hubbub" to side with the *, so that in subsequent "discussions", the WH can always claim..."Well..look-ee-here..there are PROMINENT DemocRATS (emphasis always on the RATS part, even if they are agreeing with them) who AGREE with this fantastic,marvelous,popular,young president"..:puke:

We all pretty much know by now that the white house is little more than a bunch of snipers, and it's always troubling to see "our own" running ammunition to them so they can continue to pick off those of us who dare speak up..

[smiley_glad_hands]

16. Dems need to be Patient----Let the Story go for a Walk for a Little While.

Build some Momentum and get absorbed or saturated in the Media. Lets see where this goes----as mention at the top---we have quite a few aces up our sleeves. Now is not the time to lose the "poker face".

[NewHampster]

17. Here's a present for Bushco

[peacetalksforall]

21. I am reposting my words from another thread because I'm furious...

The right wing press only has Lieberman and Biden.

Why?

Because they are the only (supposedly) Dems speaking out.

They are the very poorest spokespeople we have besides Zell Miller. What the heck is wrong with Biden...it is almost like he is a candidate for blackmail of some kind. I am furious with him once again.

And where are all the other Dems...I guess they'll leave it to the Black Caucus in the House to speak out....once again.

They need a stadium full of Kucinichs.

Where is Jimmy Carter oand Jackson on Haiti?

Where are our leaders?

Where are the Clintons?

The story on Clarke HAS to be straightened out with the public right now - this is a critical day.

And as Will Pitt said yesterday - Kerry is skiing. He deserves a rest, but no one is speaking for him. caveat - I didn't hear Kennedy yesterday.

Disgusted and steaming mad in the heartland. Or am I just premature?

[NewHampster]

23. And I sir ask that you read my post from elsewhere

copied from: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1266500

The defensive posture the WH is taking is exactly what we need and I sure am enjoying watching them squirm.

To all those DUers who keep screaming that the Kerry camp has to take action now while bushco is reeling, they are taking the correct action. NOTHING.

The Kerry camp is quiet. The Kerry camp is letting the media ask the questions of the WH and in so doing the media is putting the negative questions in the back of voters minds. Keep up the good work Kerry Camp.

Please keep quiet Senator Kerry. Enjoy the skiing, stay a few more days and just let this wonderful turn of events simmer on its own.

Most important of all. Do not come to the defense of Clarke as that will be seen by the wrong-wing as defending a rat. We know he's a true patriot and I bet he fully expects no support that could one day backfire. Thank you for your sacrifice Mr. Clarke.

[Malva Zebrina]

30. Oh gowan

I actually think the silence is not a strategy but a lack of doing the research to present something we can get a grip on. There is such a shallowness amongst voters that they certainly would remember the tattered, second hand, clothes their mom would sew for them from the botom of her heart.

Laying back and waiting for the media? I hate to think that a future president would use that tactic in order to win an election

Maybe that is the modern way--but I prefer the old fashioned way. If a candidate says something his/her feet are held to the fire. He/she must then be accountable to what they have said.


Why not?

[freeforall]

37. Kerry doing the Ghandi thing...

nonaction. And, the Power of Silence.

Better right now than a defensive response.

[juajen]

39. Wes Clark is speaking for Kerry all over the place

Of course, you might know that already. Interesting!

[peacetalksforall]

22. Whatever is going on with Biden should be outed...

the press is loving him and the right wing must be estatic.

Will the DUers of Deleware please let Biden know how some of us feel since the word of a person outside the state doesn't seem to count these days - even though those voter-traitors vote for all of us and pretend to speak on TV for all of us.

Partisan! He's the partisan.

It's like he's voting for the killing all over again.

He's on TV every day.

[bain_sidhe]

25. As much as it sticks in my craw

(and what is a craw, anyway?) I think we have to let the Dems who voted for the IWR save face - because Kerry's one of them. We have to let them appear to have given the chimp the benefit of the doubt, because otherwise, there's no excuse for their vote. And Kerry NEEDS to be able to overcome that "he voted for it, now he's against it" thing the chimpies are throwing at him. One way to do that is to, as Biden may doing, say that "I voted for it because I simply could not believe that a President of this country would lie about something as serious as this. OF COURSE when I found out about it I was horrified - wouldn't you be?"

**edited: typos, grammar, my errors were legion**

[RichM]

33. Well, I'll tell you what a craw is - according to Merriam-Webster, it's

"the stomach especially of a lower animal."

Now, about your point: do you notice how awfully weak a position it is, to be forced into letting "the Dems who voted for the IWR save face - because Kerry's one of them"? Wouldn't it have been smarter to nominate someone who didn't have this , er, little problem?

Basically, the Democrats have already done what they do so well - act stupidly. They are caught in the web of their own corruption and cowardice. Now the best they can do is invent creative strategies to work around this central problem.

[bain_sidhe]

34. Thank you! And...

Now, about your point: do you notice how awfully weak a position it is, to be forced into letting "the Dems who voted for the IWR save face - because Kerry's one of them"? Wouldn't it have been smarter to nominate someone who didn't have this , er, little problem?

Did I mention that I think it sucks? Yeah. It does. If I had my 'druthers, it would be different. But, at this point, "I told ya so" isn't going to get Kerry a single vote. At this point, the mission is to beat bush. Period. Whatever it takes. (Short of something illegal, of course.)

At least, that's *my* mission. Others may have different missions or priorities, and I can't speak to the validity or righteousness of those missions or priorities. I only know what I want - to beat bush - and what I'm willing to do or put up with to get it. Others will have to decide what they're willing to do or put up with for themselves.

[Guaranteed]

38. They're just giving him the benefit of the doubt all over again.

Bush fucked up. CALL him on it, rub his face in it. Fucking humiliate him, so this will never happen again. This is called JUSTICE.

[Kimber Scott]

24. You forgot Kwiatkowski who came forward

from the Pentagon after she retired.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Kwiatkowski-Pentagon-Kinght-Ridder31jul03.htm

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

31. To those apologizing for Biden on this thread:

In my gut, I'm just not buying this, "it's better that the Dems appear objective by having some of them support Bush on this." WTF?

How is Biden/Liberman saying this better than if they didn't speak at all? I can understand the position of "let the media do it, let's not let our party appear to be partisan snipers (although the Repubs seem to suffer no penalty for doing this the last 12 YEARS!!)" But why not just be silent? Now these "Dem"'s statements are INSTANTLY used as talking points and internet fodder from everyone from the administration spokeswhores to dudes I argue with on the internet. HOW IS THIS GOOD?

[Guaranteed]

36. It's not. People are just afraid to give the knock-out punch.

We've been "partisan" with everything up until this point, and so have the Republicans. Now we're suddenly worried about being TOO harsh with Bush, even though he's using 9/11 to HIS advantage. It's fucking ridiculous. He's reeling- HIT him, for Christ's fucking sake.

He's incompetent. It's just the truth. Clarke's a frickin' REPUBLICAN- I mean, goddamn! What else do you need? Knock him the fuck out.

[gulliver]

32. Good post.

Nice, cogent summary.

[Guaranteed]

40. Kick nt