Left Behind author on NPR, Fresh Air -- in a few minutes

[jokerman93]

Tim Lehey, co-author of the "Left Behind" dominionist end-time novels is scheduled to be on "Fresh Air" on NPR in a few minutes.

I want to talk about this!

[supernova]

1. Oh great

that's all we need.

Lehaye is a definite wacko

[southerngirlwriter]

2. Won't be on here until 6PM Central time

When it's off, I'll be happy to talk about it then. :)

:kick:

[blm]

3. Tim LaHaye has a longtime connection to Rev. Moon.

Not surprising, LaHaye was a self described "mind control expert" back in the late 70s.

The Left Behind books are pure political mind control for the theologically vulnerable. They are like the pods shared in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

[coloradodem2005]

4. Moon the Loon?

No, wait, that was a drummer.

[jokerman93]

18. So tell us more. Tell us more.

What is the this connection? What services to Moon's syndicate does LeHaye render?

Is he a tool of the PNAC in anyway? How does the power flow when it comes to brainwashing entire populations?

[blm]

21. LaHaye is one of the founders of Council on National Policy

which is the driving force in GOP politics.

Moon is very much connected to all the rightwing evangelists, especially LaHaye.

Cross reference Sun Myung Moon and LaHaye, and then add Bush and see what comes up.

Here's a Moon site that is fully footnoted.
http://www.geocities.com/nomoonies1/1/

[anarchy1999]

27. more on the Reverend Moon and LaHaye

The Council Of National Policy (CNP)
Another Moon sponsored organization is the Council of National Policy founded in 1981 by Tim LaHaye, the aforementioned co-author of the "Left Behind" book series. It is reported that he received $500,000 from a Mr. Bo Hi Pak, Moons #1 man, and a former Korean CIA officer. Though a tape exists showing that LaHaye thanked Pak for the money, LaHaye never denied the charge but verbally attacked the sources verifying the allegation with a barrage of insult.

Other members of the CNP have included:
Beverly and Lee LaHaye, also associated with Moons CWA group. Gary Bauer, Bill Bright, James Dobson (Focus On The Family), Bob Dugan, Ron Godwin, Robert Grant, Rebecca Hagelin, Bob Jones the 3rd (Bob Jones University), Alan Keyes (Outspoken ultra-conservative black talk show host and author), Dr. D. James Kennedy (noted television evangelist and Pastor), Peter Marshall, Sam Moore of Thomas Nelson Publishing, Pat Robertson (founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network and former Presidential aspirant), Rev. Duane Motley, Ralph Reed, Oliver North (formerly with the National Security Council), Phyllis Schlafly (ultra-right columnist and pundit), Rev. Jim Woodall, John Ankerberg (internationally recognized Christian television personality), Rev. E.V. Hill, James Robison, Jay Sekulow (Attorney and activist for ultra-right/Christian causes), Pat Boone, Larry Burkett, Reed Larson, and many others.

Some of the political leaders involved with the Moon sponsored CNP group include Senators Jesse Helms, Don Nickles, and Trent Lott. Also Representatives Tom DeLay, Dan Burton, and Bob Dornan.

http://www.rense.com/general20/unholy.htm

[bobbieinok]

5. good topic - see the kids' books

main web page

http://www.leftbehind.com


kids books - plot summaries, study guides, excerpts from books

http://www.leftbehind.com/channelkids.asp?channelID=63#hardcover

[Sagan]

6. I wish they'd go ahead and get Raptured already!

I have been looking forward to their departure for years now. Quit saying goodbye and LEAVE!

[Nashyra]

11. Actually I have read the series

and I read them from the premis that it was a good "mystery". My mother in law gave them to me. I have enjoyed the "interpretation" but it has not swayed me to what my beliefs are or aren't. I found them entertaining.

[Classical_Liberal]

16. Most people who read them are uninformed and maleable to begin with

You support Tim's ministry to those folks when you buy a left behind book. I wouldn't buy them for this reason. There is much better sci fi out there anyway.

[Nashyra]

28. I didn't buy them

my mother in law gave them to me.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. The success of the Left Behind books is ironic

since fundamentalists are taught that the Moonies are an evil cult. I've shocked a few fundamentalists by telling them Tim LaHaye is on the Moon payroll. In fact, one of my guerilla actions back in Portland, when our local Fred Meyer store displayed the books prominently, was to take Post-It notes saying, "Tim LaHaye is on Sun Myung Moon's payroll" and put them at random spots in each book.

The only way to get at someone who is under Total Information Control, as a lot of fundamentalists are, is to keep showing them pieces of the puzzle that don't fit.

[Jane Austin]

13. Too clever!

Your post-it note gambit is too clever!

What a hoot.

[jokerman93]

8. Jeezuzz wants you on your knees begging

Self Help book - preparing for the end of time?
Isreal returns to homeland
expansion of knowledge world wide
movement towrds one world gov
just like the bible says.

what happens at the end?

if you take it literally:

The rapture of the church. All the dead in christ (billions) will be resurected. All believers who have recieved christ will be transformed and meet the lord in air (sky?).

Events on earth after rapture is the time of wrath for those who have rejected Christ.

7 seal of judgements anti-christ gains control of the world - we get world peace

Then war and bloodshed, famine, 7 years of tribulation. World will be led by satan himself. This ends by Christ finishing his coming by arriving on earth and conquering the antichrist. establsihes his gov and establishes an unstoppable fascist christian theocracy that will last 1000 years. This is apparently a different kind of world piece than the one brought by the anti-christ.

The temple will be taken over. Moving of many hearts to accept god. Only a thirds of the world poulation. The Jews will convert or be subject to tribulations and hell...


Jeez - do I need to keep listening to this third grade theology???

yikes!


Is this just another art bell/Hal Lindsey making a million bucks on the PNAC Empire/Terror war product launch???

[Jane Austin]

14. Yep.

That's what it sounds like to me.

[FlaGranny]

17. The Rapture - in my

Catholic version of the bible, it says that 140,000 Jews who have accepted Christ, 20,000 each from the seven tribes of Israel, will be raptured. All other Christians will have to wait through the seven years of tribulation to be tempted and tortured and tricked into following the bad guy.

In other words, no ordinary run of the mill Christian gets raptured - only Jewish Christians. Run when you see "Jews for Christ." ;-)

Edit: This is why some people are trying so hard to convert Jews to Christianity and why others are trying so hard to find the Lost Tribe of Israel. I don't know why they don't just relax and let God take care of things. Don't they trust him to do the right thing? It would seem not.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Strange - in the King James version

it says 144,000 Jews (12,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel)are 'sealed in their foreheads' (Revalation 7:3-8). Which book and verse are you referring to? And I understood "The Rapture" to be a Protestant thing, not Catholic.

Specifically, most people say the concept originated about 1830, primarily with a strange sect (in which my grandmother grew up, before she escaped) called the Plymouth Brethren. Before then, no-one had the slightest idea of interpreting the bible verses in this rather peculiar way.

[FlaGranny]

22. Whoops, you're right, I was doing that from memory

and I goofed. It is in the Book of Revelation. I guess I should have gotten it out and re-read it before posting. Yes 144,000, 12,000 from the 12 tribes. Then 1000 times more people from all lands and of all nationalities who have survived the great distress (which I take to mean the seven years of tribulation). Sorry about that.

Edit: I don't remember any Catholic beliefs about the Rapture. I was just "trying" (and not doing too good a job) to quote the part of the bible that it is taken from.

[jokerman93]

24. Interesting Irony

If the 19th century Plymouth Brethren spawned the primary Christian Dominionist delusion of the Rapture, it also produce Aliester Crowley -- the self-proclaimed "Great Beast", founder of Thelemic magick and priest and Prophet of the Age of Horus - The age of fire. His parents were prominent members of the cult and Crowley obviously had some resulting scars...

[Merlin]

33. Current consensus among scholars is that the Apocalypse was pagan...

According to Marcus Borg, one of the more prominent biblical scholars, the Book of the Apocalypse--the final book of the New Testament--was adapted from a pagan tract that preceded the NT by as much as several centuries. It was modified slightly to satisfy budding Christian theology, and added "as almost an afterthought" to the NT at the Council of Nicea in 325.

[Indiana_Dem]

34. Here is a great website concerning the different beliefs

of when a "rapture" would occur. It's pretty heavy reading but I like the site and go and read some things every now and then. I am one who doesn't think there will be any "secret" rapture. I believe when Jesus comes everyone will pretty much know about it. I also believe Christians will not escape any tribulation more than any other human being. Actually, I believe many Christians will be killed more than ever before during that period. At least that's what I get when reading Revelations and other parts of the bible.
Anyway, here is the website if you want some heavy reading on rapture theories:

http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/

When I first became born-again I went to a charismatic church and they taught about the "secret" rapture theory. I just couldn't see or read what they were reading in the Bible. I quit going after fully realizing that they were telling a lie whether intentional or not. I felt they were twisting the words of the Bible.

[BiggJawn]

30. "So now I'm prayin' for the End of Time...."

"to hurry up and arrive,
'cuz if I have to spend another minute with you,
I don't think that I can really survive..."

Fucking "End Times" have been coming since when, the year 65 C.E. or something like that? Didn't Jesus say something about his Apostles not "tasting death" before his return?

Then the Jay-Dubs had it pegged in 1914, then 1975, then....


Let's see, Dumbya thinks he's on a "Holy Crusade", Gays can't get married, a woman out in Mormon Land gets indicted for not submitting to surgery to "save her baby", all we hear about as far as Civics goes anymore is how this country "was founded on CHRISTIAN Principles"...

My question is, will I be shot, drowned , or just burned at the stake?

[Az]

9. I generally avoid any groups that look forward to the end of the world

It just seems like a bad idea to me.

[jokerman93]

10. This is all the same identical rhetoric

This is all the same identical rhetoric I ran into in college from the Campus Crusade freaks.

It's pure tried and tested cult-think. Hasn't evolved in 25 years.

Brags about trying to explain Jeezuz to the Dalai Lama, but was brushed off by attendents.

[jokerman93]

12. Gershom Gorenberg Comments

End of Days Author
Gershom Gorenberg:

Darby 19th century preacher invented the rapture. Became a popular idea among evangelicals.

This prove that the dominionist theology is based on human interpretation - not the literal meaning of the Bible.

Many times the literal interpretation is offered by people who are unable to read the original text.

this world view is disturbing - anti-christ calls top aid and orders the death of all Jews. Aid rushes out to do this. The idea of a coming holocaust is featured in many of the christian fundamentalist texts.

That's what the Bible says will happen (not what christians want)

(Sorry about the bad transcript folks!!!)

:hi:

[T Bone]

35. Yes, Gorenbergs comments were very good

commentary on the Left Behind series.
A few notes I made, not an exact transcript.

Gorenberg holds that the Left Behind series of books play out the resolution (simplistic?)(deterministic?) of all the dissonance that faces the religious world-view of the fundamentalist Christians. And, as it is played out in the books the Jews are either converted to Christ or killed. However no one person or group takes responsibility or is held accountable for the killing that occurs. The 'antichrist' does it all. (The devil made me do it?)

The Remnant, one of the titles in the Left Behind series, has disturbing scenes and it is an interpretation of the bible and its’ prophecy that absolves fundamentalists of any responsibility for the horrific things that their interpretation would allow or permit.

He pointed out that the political alliances of some Jewish and fundamentalist groups really make no sense in light of this nonsense, which I guess proves indeed that politics makes strange bedfellows, but then this is not a gay marriage thread is it?

My feeble attempt at humor in last paragraph is not meant as a slight to anyone.

[dae]

15. I read one of them, maybe the 5th or 6th in the series, don't remember

which, and couldn't get over how sophomoric it was. It is the only book in my entire life I have actually thrown away so no one else could read it.

[Mari333]

19. THaNkee that thar bouk is sum mIghtYgoud reedin!

ah kno Jayzus is gOnna Kallme SOUMday! Halelujah!

[jokerman93]

23. that is TOOOO funny! n/t

[KamaAina]

25. NPR just got cut from spring training

it can't go to its right anymore :-)

I mean, really. Why can't Moonie LaHaye go on one of the seven million or so Salem fundie "news/talk" stations out there?

19 days to Air America... 19 days to Air America...

[PA Democrat]

26. Beverly LaHaye, Tim LaHaye's wife

was sent by Bush to represent the U.S. at the U.N. Commission on Human Rights in May, 2001.

I guess in the past we had sent people from the American Medical Assoc. and the American Public Health Assoc., and these people were typically experts on public health issues. But Bush had to appease his whacko base. He not only sent Mrs. LaHaye, but also:

Jeanne Head- a professional anti-abortion activist
Janice Crouse- of Concerned Women for America
John Klink- former chief negotiator for the Vatican


Not a single one of them had ANY expertise in public health. They were sent for one purpose only- to push an ant-choice agenda as if the world has no other pressing health concerns.

[jokerman93]

29. OK so here's what's really going on

Sun Myoung Moon is actually planning to BE or produce the second coming. Uh-oh!!!!!!

Note: His cult believes he IS the new Christ.

[SharonAnn]

31. Sigh, isn't he dead yet? Is he like Lenin? Enbalmed forever?

Geez, that guy can't live forever, can he?

[uhhuh]

32. The Rapture is a scam

It was made up in scotland in the 1830s.


"It may come as a surprise to many Christians, but the doctrine of the Rapture is not mentioned in any Christian writings, of which we have knowledge, until after the year 1830 A.D. Whether the early writers were Greek or Latin, Armenian or Coptic, Syrian or Ethiopian, English or German, orthodox or heretic, no one mentioned a syllable about it. Of course, those who feel the origin of the teaching is in the Bible would say that it only ceased being taught (for some unknown reason) at the close of the apostolic age only to reappear in 1830 A.D. But if the doctrine were so clearly stated in Scripture, it seems incredible that no one should have referred to it before the 19th century. This does not necessarily show that the teaching is wrong, but it does mean that thousands of eminent scholars who lived over a span of seventeen centuries (including some of the most astute of the "Christian Fathers" and those of the Reformation and post-Reformation periods) must be considered as prophetic dunces for not having understood so fundamental a teaching. We are not denigrating the doctrine in mentioning these historical facts. That is not our intention. But we do feel that the Foundation should show the historical problems associated with the teaching. This lapse of seventeen centuries when no one mentioned anything about it must be a serious obstacle to its reliability."

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d760201.htm