The Madrid bombs are awful enough as it is. Exploiting them is sickening.

[BurtWorm]

Just my opinion. I think it's best to see how the investigation pans out before jumping on any bandwagon of blame. If it turns out that ETA is responsible, which is highly likely given the historical setting, then it will seem pathetic that Americans interpreted the events through our narrow focus. It's not "all about" America, as the new cliche goes. This one is about Spain, regardless of who did it.

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. It's actually not ETA's style at all. Even though at first I assumed it

was ETA, I was surprised at the nature and scope of the attack, ETA usually warns, and the only time they killed very many civilians, they apologized. I thought it was either ETA making some pretty big changes, or a sparkle.

Then a few hours later a "citizen tip," leading to a van with 8 detonators and a store-bought Koran CD, which whether true or not, the fact that it is what the media is being told, and telling us, appears to be a rather ham-handed "covert" operation on the part of some entity who seems quite assured that the public is really really stupid.

[BurtWorm]

3. But last week ETA was caught trying to use more explosives

than they've ever used. It just seems that they're as likely suspects as anybody. I think it's a function of people not knowing what to say in the face of so much horror. They immediately go to blame, and that is beside the point when there's no one as yet to blame.

[Must_B_Free]

5. 9-11 was not Al Qaeda's style

compared to the USS Cole bombing, where the idiots in the raft didn't even bother to target the munitions area of the craft. How well planned is that?

[BurtWorm]

11. In the UK Guardian: "A New and Bloody Style of Attack"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1167856,00.html

Earlier government officials had argued with conviction that Eta must be involved, ringing The Guardian to rebut some of the arguments pointing away from the group.

"It is absolutely clear and evident that the terrorist organisation Eta was looking to commit a major attack," the interior minister, Angel Acebes, said.

"The only thing that varies is the train station that was targeted," he said, referring to a failed Christmas attack at Madrid's Chamartin rail station.

Government sources told the Guardian that the explosives used included a type of dynamite known as titadine, a quantity of which was stolen from a French mine by Eta several years ago and which has appeared in most recent Eta bombs.

...

[arcos]

15. yes, the Partido Popular really wants ETA to be guilty...

it has been a major campaign issue for several years...

Obviously the interior minister won't say anything different.

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. They say it wasn't them. Credit has been claimed by one of those

"shadowy" groups that few outside the OSP creative department has ever heard of.

It's an election year, and a second Unity Operation in the US could leave bush vulnerable to charges that he has not kept the Homeland safe enough, although I understand that opinions are divided on this, with some in Washington waxing nostalgic for those post-9-11 poll numbers in the 90s :)

[wuushew]

4. Just know that that van probably has someones fingerprints on it

Any one either a citizen or visitor to Spain would likely register with the government. Additionally given breakthroughs in genetic testing minute amounts of skin or hair might be tested for Basque or Arab genetic markers.

If we assume the situation was not engineered by Aznar or BFEE certain conclusions can be made relatively early into the criminal investigation.

[BurtWorm]

8. It's this kind of armchair detecting that I find disturbing.

With all due respect.

[DuctapeFatwa]

9. Interesting how the citizen just happpened to notice the van and contents

You would think that ETA or "Al Qaeda" would be a little more careful about leaving all those detonators in the van.

Spain's TIPS program must have some really dedicated volunteers. Lots of vans there...

[Fenris]

2. It is all about America

What was the major news story of today? John Kerry's remarks about the Republicans. It was like no one noticed the national tragedy in Spain. Nope, we were too busy airing the Bush ad. But when we suffer a tragedy, we expect the world to mourn.

I am appalled that the U.S. has suggested al Qaida involvement. ETA has been active in Spain for years. The Spanish know this. The Europeans know this. But we are oblivious.

[Zomby Woof]

7. Why I think Al Qaeda IS responsible

The ETA never denies responsibility for their attacks, and they have been silent on this one. I think it is unlikely they are behind this. The Spanish government's haste to lay blame on them was no different than the way the U.S. held Arabs responsible for Oklahoma City. Scapegoats are always on the path of least resistance.

But moreover, Aznar's siding with Bush made Spain a target for a revenge attack. Terrorists are like the mafia writ large - they hit tit for tat.

It is about America as long as we play countries like Spain as pawns in our global game. 90% of the people of Spain opposed involvement in Iraq, yet Aznar went ahead, arrogantly as Bush. Now nearly 200 or more Spanish citizens have paid with their lives.

Note: I have a deep personal knowledge of Spain's history and politics, so I will brook no arguments that belie ignorance of either.

[BurtWorm]

10. Do you know for a fact who committed this?

If it isn't al Qaeda, will your opinion amount to anything more than gas? (With all due respect.)

[Zomby Woof]

12. READ WHAT I WROTE

I said "I think", not "I know". I made an educated guess based on my intense personal knowledge and reasoning abilities, rather than emotional speculation based on knee-jerk tinfoil sanctimony.

What amazes me is that the same tinfoil brigade on this site who decries the ineptitude and arrogance of Bush's waging of the Iraqi invasion (and rightfully so), their inability to cover up the WMD lies, and so on, can simultaneously think they are organized and efficient enough to carry out an attack like this from Rove's office or some other steaming mound of tinfoil bullshit. Can't have it both ways.

One thing I know from all my years at DU, is that there are at LEAST as many left-wing nutcases as there are right-wing ones. Neither are very good at reading comprehension, in any event.

[BurtWorm]

13. I totally agree with paragraph two!

:toast:

Did you see the article in the Guardian I linked to above? It has more evidence supporting the Eta theory.

[Zomby Woof]

14. the Guardian isn't fit for wiping my ass

You have no more "proof" than I do, but at least my opinion has more basis in reason, and not in rags like the Guardian. Even the Spanish government, who would LOVE to stand by the original ETA speculation, is reversing judgment.

Al Qaeda has had cells in Spain a long time and to think they are not at least potential suspects is to suffer from head-up-your-ass syndrome.

[BurtWorm]

16. The article seems to have been written in response to Spanish govt.

information against earlier Guardian reporting more in line with your thinking, apparently.

[arcos]

17. actually they are not reversing judgment...

the government is asking citizens to dismiss any talk of Al Qaeda involvement, because of what you said... they would love that ETA were guilty.

I agree with you... it was probably Al Qaeda.

[radfringe]

18. "fear factor" bush*'s numbers are dropping

http://www.pollingreport.com/

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushFav.htm
ABC News/Washington Post Poll. March 4-7, 2004. N=1,202 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3. Fieldwork by TNS Intersearch.

". . . please tell me if you have a favorable or unfavorable impression of George W. Bush, or perhaps you don't know enough to say."

3/4-7/04
Favorable ...... 47%
Unfavorable .. 46%
No Opinion ... 7%