are the ongoing gay marriages a mistake in the making?

[worldgonekrazy]

when i first learned that there were gay marriages going on in san francisco and other cities across the nation, despite protests from the state, i figured "well if its an unjust law (against gay marriages) then people ought to go ahead and break it." i was heartened to see so many people publicly stand up and say "i will exercise my rights as a citizen of this nation," not to mention the courage of some elected officials like san francisco mayor gavin newsome, who put their own careers and possible risk of imprisonment on the line.

but i've got to thinking over the past few days that this might not be a good idea. i can think of plenty of ways this could potentially bite liberals in the ass, such as with the christian right getting all fired up and coming out in droves to vote for the guy that masquerades as our president. but then is one big potential problem that i overlooked initially, and that is this:

what if conservatives take this as a green light to bust any laws they don't agree with? what if some district attorney decides he is going to arrest women who have abortions for murder? what if a bunch of officials, public employees, or teachers decided to pull another roy moore and violate the separation of church and state? the possibilities are limitless.

if this were to happen, liberals would be standing on shaking ground when condemning these actions. i know they aren't the same at all for a variety of reasons. but when you boil it down conservatives could say "you did this so we are going to do that." yeah, its fucking stupid, but our country isn't exactly made up of critical thinkers.

anybody want to weigh in on this? and please, please don't question my commitment to gay rights. all i am suggesting is that this might not be the best way to go about things.

[DrWeird]

1. I'm questioning your commitment to gay rights.

Basically you're telling Rosa Parks to sit quietly at the back of the bus and wait.

[meegbear]

6. I agree totally ...

With all that's happeneing, it has to go on.

[worldgonekrazy]

7. that isn't true

i'm not "telling" anyone to do anything. i am just being critical here and wondering if perhaps what is being done is the best thing that could be done for the advancement of gay rights.

edited for grammar

[mitchtv]

2. Sorry honey, I'm too old to wait any longer

Our time is now-no excuses - I won't argue about it. We lose,, we lose

[SheilaT]

3. Since I see this as a straightforward

(excuse the pun) civil right issue, I hardly think marrying same-sex couples opens the door for any other law to be broken. Unless it also involves civil rights.

As a straight person myself the recent gay marriages feel like the collapse of the Berlin Wall back in 1989. All of a sudden the old order has changed and things will never be the same.

[worldgonekrazy]

8. one could make the argument

conservatives could say that the whole ten commandments thing is a civil rights issue, as in their right to practice religion. they would, of course, be wrong, but when has that stopped them before?

[gator_in_Ontario]

12. But "the whole ten commandments"

has no business in law of the land to begin with....

[GumboYaYa]

4. We would have never had the Civil Rights movement if Rosa Parks

had not defied the rules and sat on the front of the bus that day. We would never have the Civil Rights movement if Martin Luther King had not organized the boycott of the bus system in Montgomery.

Same sex couples will never have equal rights unless they stand up and claim them for themselves. I can not fault anyone who demands that America recognize him or her as equal in the eyes of the law. There is never a comfortable time to demand change. If you don't demand it, you never get it.

[slinkerwink]

5. I saw the happiness they had in getting married and it made me change

from civil unions to gay marriages because I want to be that happy when I get married.

[smcmike]

9. I think

That we can't tell anyone that they can't get married because it will hurt us in the election. While I don't personally think this is close to the most important issue out there, and we should avoid making it a defining one, if possible, it is the right thing, and that matters sometimes. As far as conservatives defying the laws, well, I am sure they will crack down on the gay marraiges, as much as they can, and i have no qualms about using the power of government for good, and keeping religion out of our schools... etc.

[matcom]

10. As Huge A Mistake As Voting Rights For Blacks

:eyes:


on edit: and sorry, i reread your post (my bad)

what this has done has FORCED the issue to be front and center. had this not been done this way, gays would NEVER be given the voice to force change.

this is the ONLY way this could happen successfully IMHO. not a single "DEM" in office would have touched this with a 10 foot pole otherwise (which is so, so sad)

the Civil disobediance of MLK was similar IMHO. Rosa wasn't supposed to sit in the front of the bus but she did didn't she?

</rant>

[worldgonekrazy]

13. dems in office still aren't touching it with a 10 foot pole

because they are worried about political backlash. the simple fact is that only about 40% of the country supports gay marriage (and that is a liberal estimate), so when you push it as an issue you aren't going to win a lot of votes. on the other hand, you do stand to lose a lot.

[matcom]

15. ah, but politicians don't HAVE to push it now

because the PEOPLE are pushing it!

look at the strides already!

now, repukes are ACCEPTING civil unions - yesterday they were NOT!

i don't know if MARRIAGE will be granted nationwide but i'll bet you dollars to donuts that AT LEAST civil unions will be.

the repukes have been FORCED to backpeddal by THE PEOPLE!!!

i, as a heterosexual married man will NOT be satisfied until my gay brothers and sisters are allowed to marry just like me BUT ".... and friends, it would be a MOVEMENT!"

[Gildor Inglorion]

11. For too long

it's been "let's just be quiet and maybe the bashers won't notice us." I see your point totally, but there comes a time to make a stand, win or lose.

[yellowcanine]

14. No, there is no wrong time to do the right thing.

Sometimes you just have to stand on principle. This is one of those times. Somebody will always say "now is not the time". If not now, when? There is never a time that is going to be convenient. Changing people's hearts takes time so we need to start now.

[Ysabel]

16. i also question your commitment...

to gay rights...

i think it would be helpful to perhaps question oneself a bit more and to perhaps think more deeply about caring / thinking - rather than waste one's time with pseudo-ponderings concerning "critical" thinking...

--------

edit - typo...

[kayell]

17. Yet another person questioning your commitment

It is especially interesting to me that you are having this attack of trepidition as more and more this issue seems to be going for our side (or at least for those of us of a gay or supporters side).

I think it is truly pathetic when "liberals" start worrying so much about their butts being chewed on that they won't stand up for human rights, one of the most basic cores of liberal belief systems. In fact, I thought this weeny attitude had gone into remission here at DU the last several days, as people settled down and thought about what they were really saying by asking gays to wait yet again.

There is a long and proud history in this country of civil disobedience to laws that are unjust, and more especially to those that are unconstitutional. Justice for the oppressed was never won by waiting meekly for someone to "give" people their rights.

"what if conservatives take this as a green light to bust any laws they don't agree with? what if some district attorney decides he is going to arrest women who have abortions for murder? what if a bunch of officials, public employees, or teachers decided to pull another roy moore and violate the separation of church and state? the possibilities are limitless."

You certainly are filled with fears. I'm really starting to question the political wisdom of people so filled with fear that they would have the dem party turn into kinder, gentler, but scardy cat repubs so as not to offend anyone.

Gavin Newsom has said that he will stop marrying IF the courts order him to stop. So far, the courts have repeatedly DECLINED to order him to stop. That would certainly seem to say that the courts think he is right constitutionally. Roy Moore on the other hand, repeatedly went against the courts orders. If the conservatives keep pulling illegal, unconstitutional crap (I say keep pulling, because they already are, see Ashcroft and the abortion records) then we better show the same level of back bone that the courts have so far.

The possibilities for the rw abusing the constitution and the rights of US citizens are indeed endless. We better be ready to stand up for those rights strongly, proud in a true liberal tradition of fighting for what is right.