Which side are you on? Chavez or the US State Departments?

[AP]

[Mika]

1. I wonder..

I wonder how Barney Frank would vote in this poll? ;-)

[AP]

2. Exactly the way the banks which his house committee regulates...

...would want him to vote.

Even Clinton loved neoliberal foreign policies he NEVER would have inflicted upon Americans.

[Deja Q]

4. Barney Who?

n/t

[AP]

5. Doesn't Frank also have a pretty narrow view of Palesinians too?

I know that I heard Frank say something totally shocking once about some issue, but I can't remember what it was.

[AP]

3. kick

[hellhathnofury]

6. Very nice poll!

I never knew push polling could be so popular on DU.:crazy:

[AP]

7. Yes. No wagering please. This is highly unscientific.

Mostly, I'm just trying to criticize fascism.

[hellhathnofury]

10. So it's not push polling?

If your argument was so good you could do an honest poll.

Who do you tend to side with?

Chavez
the opposition
not sure/balanced

[AP]

19. My question was honest. The sides are lined up the way I said they are.

You need to get some facts to inform your opinions.

[hellhathnofury]

22. So suddenly your the rule maker? That sounds like dictatorship,

and then to deny that this isn't push polling.

I think you need to look at Chavez's human rights record, spare me the insults.

[AP]

23. Lame.

[hellhathnofury]

27. Give a straight answer.

Is this push polling? If your argument is so righteous why would you need push polling?

[AP]

29. L-A-M-E.

I'm definitely editorializing, but my editorializing is based on the obvious truth.

[hellhathnofury]

32. So it's an editorializing poll?

I thought that's what a push poll was, but then I could be mistaken. Maybe I'm just blinded by the glorious rays of truth.;-)

[AP]

33. It's supposed to spark a debate (which it has)

So it's a very successful poll.

[hellhathnofury]

34. Way to squiggle.

Debate more over the actual tactics of the poll than anything else, plus it's just you and me. The debate is in the other threads.

Want to try to give a straight answer again?

Is this push-polling? Yes or no?

[AP]

36. Is what you do trying to discredit Chavez "pushing" opinion?

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, there's opinion-making at DU!

Regardless of whether I'm pusing or pulling, I'm happy to see that my side of the argument is pummelling yours.

[hellhathnofury]

39. This is the longest answer to a yes or no question I've ever seen.

Is this push polling?

[AP]

41. You need to go back and reread my answers.

I belive that my dichotomy is 100% accurate, so I'm not sure how it could be 'push polling.'

[hellhathnofury]

42. Well....you assign labels that are obvious bias.

a telemarketing technique in which telephone calls are used to canvass vast numbers of potential voters, feeding them false and damaging 'information' about a candidate under the guise of taking a poll to see how this 'information' affects voter preferences. In fact, the intent is to 'push' the voters away from one candidate and toward the opposing candidate. This is clearly political telemarketing, using innuendo and, in many cases, clearly false information to influence voters; there is no intent to conduct research.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m2519/4_21/62410241/p1/article.jhtml?term=

The poll is loaded with innuendo and is clearly intended to push respondants to the pro-Chavez size.

So, is this push-polling?

[AP]

46. Which labels are biased? "State Department"? "working class"?

"Oligarchs"? "Chavez"?

Where's the innuendo?

The opposition are a bunch of fascists. It may sound bad, but it's the truth. They're not running from it.

[hellhathnofury]

47. Here's your editorializing:

"or oilygarchy) and the fascits"

It's fascists for one thing, and that is certainly editorializing to a great great extent.

[AP]

48. The oligarchy is made up of people who got kicked out of oil company.

It's oil money that is paying for the opposition.

you dind't know this?

And what is going on down there is the definition of fascism.

It's the corporate takeover the state. Hitler gave fascism a bad name, sure. But this is what fascism is all about.

[hellhathnofury]

49. Poppycock

So everyone of those people out in the street is bought and paid for by US oil money? You really want to stick by that statement.

[AP]

50. What do you think is financing the opposition?

You really don't know about this?

[hellhathnofury]

52. They're financing themselves...

the ruling elite should be able to do that themselves anyways right? Why would the wealthy need CIA money? Is that a gap I smell...

[AP]

53. How'd they get the money? And the CIA is financing the opposition.

Throwing evil money after evil money.

[hellhathnofury]

54. Got any legitimate links showing that.

[noiretextatique]

55. links?!?! the US has been on the wrong side

in central and south america (and elsewhere) by backing murderous rw puppets for a very, very long time. you should pay attention to what your government has been doing.

[hellhathnofury]

57. Can you prove that the CIA is funding the anti-Chavist's?

That was the question. I know our track record sucks, but that can't be your answer all of the time.

[noiretextatique]

58. can you PROVE they aren't?

and our track record continues to suck. have you forgotten who is running this country?

[hellhathnofury]

59. I have not forgotten who's running this country.

But I'm not paranoid to the point where I don't look at the situation on it's own merit too.

That answer is such a copout.

[AP]

60. Yes. Here's a site with FOIA docs revealing US involvement.

http://www.venezuelafoia.info/

[hellhathnofury]

dupe

[AP]

9. That's not why your side is losing this poll.

[hellhathnofury]

11. I'm just noting your discrediting yourself.

[AP]

12. All that work trying to discredit Chavez and you're losing 55 to 7. Must

be discouraging.

[hellhathnofury]

13. I'm not discouraged. This is DU, not representative of real life.

[AP]

14. Then why waste so many hours discrediting chavez for 6 people?

[hellhathnofury]

15. Because where else do you get interesting debate?

Why are you here?

[AP]

16. I'm here because when I started here your side won this vote and now

people have a clue because people like tinoire, judylynn, noiretblu and the Magistrate have argued sense into people's heads and it has been a PLEASURE to watch this happen.

[hellhathnofury]

17. Good for you,

isn't it quite possible it's going to swing the other way? I mean with the recall and all. Chavez's numbers aren't that good, he's likely to get voted out, but I doubt he's going to let that happen.

[AP]

18. At least people here will know that the bad guys won if that happens.

And what's with you measuring things like that? Like it's a sporting event and you think your side can go up 50-nil in the last quarter?

We're talking about people's lives and about creeping fascism.

This is serious shit.

[hellhathnofury]

20. Uhhh...

"AP (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-08-04 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #15

16. I'm here because when I started here your side won this vote and now

people have a clue because people like tinoire, judylynn, noiretblu and the Magistrate have argued sense into people's heads and it has been a PLEASURE to watch this happen."

Game?

I fully realize this is serious stuff, but this is also only DU (where debate is supposed to be happening.)

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hellhathnofury]

24. I don't think this debate is over.

I don't need assurance from the people around me to stand my ground. I've only entered the debate on DU in the last few weeks.

"That's not a game, that the beauty and glory of the truth. You don't know the difference, do you?"

Now that's poetry!

[AP]

28. You're two years too late. I'm sure lots of bad people are getting paid

good money to convince Americans of what you're trying to convince DU'ers.

Let's see if DU backslides to where it was before the coup.

Just to reiterate, BEFORE the coup, most DU'ers thought Chavez was bad, and they repeated a lot of the BS printed in the Times and the WP and repeated dumb ass shit from NPR.

Since the coup, thanks to hard work and intelligent arguing by smart DU'ers, and also thanks to people simply opening their eyes, there are way fewer of you.

So, have it. Try to make people stupid again. I'm not saying you can't. There's a sucker born every minute, right.

But I think right and wrong is pretty obvious with this issue and that you'll be fighting a losing battle.

But lets see how many screen names you can register...

[hellhathnofury]

31. You want to edit? I will cut this if you do.

"But lets see how many screen names you can register..."

I'm an honorable person.

It's going to be hard to defend Chavez if the recall is certified by the OAS and Carter Center and then Chavez obstructs the election.

[AP]

35. Not for me. Right and wrong is so painfully obvious here. This is about

oil and the CIA is funding the opposition, and the people fighting Chavez would prefer a pooer less egalitarian Venezuela so long as their wealth and power is guaranteed.

Reducing everything that is happening in Venezuela down to what the OAS and Carter Center has to say about Venezuelan politics is ridiculous on its face.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hellhathnofury]

45. There's a new thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1205629

[hellhathnofury]

26. dupe

[hellhathnofury]

8. dupe

[Aidoneus]

25. Chavez by a mile

[The Blue Knight]

30. Go Go Chavez!!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. Chavez, because I am ashamed of the U.S. habit of

trying to overthrow legally elected governments.

All this blathering about Chavez's human rights record is SOOO reminiscent of Otto Reich's propaganda against the Nicaraguan government and the lies about what a wonderful "Christian" leader Rios Montt of Guatemala was.

[Character Assassin]

43. I'm for not attempting to force false dichotomies onto complex systems

In order to justify a pre-existing political conclusion.

[thebigidea]

51. better to just make snide comments, after all

[Tinoire]

56. Chavez with a shadow of a doubt.

Power to the people :thumbsup:

Democracy :thumbsup:


THIS is what democracy looks like:



(not that shit the State Department is peddling)

[Moderator]

61. Locking

Rules to start discussion threads in the General Discussion forum

1. If you start a thread in the General Discussion forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. Some examples of things which should generally be avoided are: unnecessarily hot rhetoric, nicknames for prominent Democrats or their supporters, broad-brush statements about groups of people, single-sentence "drive-by" thread topics, etc.