"Maybe we should simply use a softer, less provocative term than lying

[Bandit]

Let’s call it conscious deception."

This is a statement from the Secretary of Navy, James Webb, during Reagan's term and yes he is talking about the Bush* Cabal.

[efhmc]

1. Quote in context, please.

[Bandit]

5. Try this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1185817#1186152

[efhmc]

13. Thanks. This is VERY important.

[Katarina]

7. jameswebb.com

Did these key players then lie to achieve their objective of an invasion and long-term occupation of Iraq? If so, why? And what are the immediate consequences? And given the immediate consequences, what are the long-term ramifications, both for the Bush Administration and for the United States?

Maybe we should simply use a softer, less provocative term than lying. Let’s call it conscious deception. For what does seem clear is that a small group of highly organized people worked very hard to manipulate the American public, its government, and the world's media, and not simply about the prospect that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction at its immediate beck and call. This process involved quite a bit of “reverse engineering” – that is, working backwards from the solution they had already agreed upon – the invasion and occupation of Iraq – and coming up with the appropriate formulas to justify the pre-ordained result.
http://www.jameswebb.com/speeches/ethicsinpostwariraq.htm

[efhmc]

12. Thank you.

[maggrwaggr]

20. yup. here's another point of view of the same thing:

Three reasons we invaded Iraq:

From a DIA analyst who was there:

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/13/news-cooper.php

(snip)
One of those reasons is that sanctions and containment were working and everybody pretty much knew it. Many companies around the world were preparing to do business with Iraq in anticipation of a lifting of sanctions. But the U.S. and the U.K. had been bombing northern and southern Iraq since 1991. So it was very unlikely that we would be in any kind of position to gain significant contracts in any post-sanctions Iraq. And those sanctions were going to be lifted soon, Saddam would still be in place, and we would get no financial benefit.

The second reason has to do with our military-basing posture in the region. We had been very dissatisfied with our relations with Saudi Arabia, particularly the restrictions on our basing. And also there was dissatisfaction from the people of Saudi Arabia. So we were looking for alternate strategic locations beyond Kuwait, beyond Qatar, to secure something we had been searching for since the days of Carter — to secure the energy lines of communication in the region. Bases in Iraq, then, were very important — that is, if you hold that is America’s role in the world. Saddam Hussein was not about to invite us in.

The last reason is the conversion, the switch Saddam Hussein made in the Food for Oil program, from the dollar to the euro. He did this, by the way, long before 9/11, in November 2000 — selling his oil for euros. The oil sales permitted in that program aren’t very much. But when the sanctions would be lifted, the sales from the country with the second largest oil reserves on the planet would have been moving to the euro.

The U.S. dollar is in a sensitive period because we are a debtor nation now. Our currency is still popular, but it’s not backed up like it used to be. If oil, a very solid commodity, is traded on the euro, that could cause massive, almost glacial, shifts in confidence in trading on the dollar. So one of the first executive orders that Bush signed in May <2003> switched trading on Iraq’s oil back to the dollar.
(snip)

[seabeyond]

2. nah

i like lying. call it what it is. what was it nadar said, fabrication..........cause i am not in his mind.

nah, lying is good, lol lol

:thumbsup:

[never cry wolf]

8. Later on in the speech he calls it lying again

It's a great piece and spot on! I hope his friends still in the Pentagon and Military feel the same way he does.

[Fenris]

3. Read "Sleepwalking Through History" by Haynes Johnson

Pretty much explains who these people are and what they're trying to do. Made me nauseous.

[proud patriot]

4. Bush The Deciever

I like it :thumbsup:

[snippy]

15. Figurehead leader of the Asses of Deceival?

Actually, I think we should argue and prove that Bush is the most compulsive and incessant liar ever to set foot in Washington, DC.

Everyone except Bush himself knows where he was during his Alabama National Guard service which has resulted in 2,500,000 million new jobs being created which will cut the deficit in half if you do not count the huge parts of the increasing deficits and the Bush administration did not reveal the identity of a CIA operative but the White House is cooperating with the 9/11 commission because democrats support terrorism and are not good Americans just as the Jews were not good Germans since the mission of the United States is to bring freedom to every single person on Earth and government spending has gone down if you do not count the increased government spending but the boxes from China were labeled "Made in USA" which resulted in 2,600,000 new jobs being created even though the $400 billion decorative medicare turkey was not labeled $525 billion and Bush's plane to Baghdad was spotted because before Saddam bought the uranium and became an urgent but not imminent threat Bush had no plans on his desk to invade Iraq since the aircraft carrier was too far offshore for the Navy to make a large enough banner to describe the WMD we have found in Iraq some of which could hit the US and some of which Saddam was giving to Osama for following Saddam's plans and using Iraqi hijackers on 9/11 but everyone got a tax cut which created 3,000,000 new jobs and allowed Iraqi oil revenue to pay for the cost of the reconstruction of Iraq after the invasion by a small number of troops who would be greeted with floral program related activities because Bush and Rice did not ignore the August 6, 2001 intelligence briefing warning of the upcoming 9/11 attacks and that is why Bush who is responsible for good economic numbers but not bad economic numbers wrote the poem that he did not write blaming Laura for dropping the dog.

There is no subject so serious, somber, or shallow that Bush will not lie about it. The only other option is not to lie and that is something which Bush can not do.

Ridiculing Bush about his incessant and compulsive lying needs to become common, especially among people who do not follow politics.

[Doctor_J]

6. The media whores

have come up with dozens of them - they've had to find new euphimisms for 3 years. When they run out, maybe they'll start calling him what he is - a LIAR.

[mike1963]

9. It's just a matter of perspective:

I am misinformed, you misinterpret, he lies. Word games.
:grr:

[ithacan]

10. how about "bearing false witness"

let's throw the Bible back in their faces:

IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

[lapislzi]

11. Let's call those big nasty ugly SPADES

kinder, gentler SHOVELS.

Sure.

Maybe we should just stick with "agricultural facilitators."

Yeah, that's better.

I like it.

[spanone]

14. Call it what you will. It's still Lying.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. It's a sort of "rhetorical device" by Webb. Read the speech.

Very effective. Of course, he does in fact mean they were lying. Webb has a different style than the Frankens and Moores. He is a former Republican Secretary of the Navy for heaven's sake. You can't expect the guy to use language like the average DU poster.

This type of message is much more important from a guy like Webb written the way he tells it. Much more likely to persuade other Repubs and mushy moderates. I'm forwarding the current USA Today Op/Ed and the old speech from Webb's website to everyone I can.

[SOteric]

17. They seemed to like the term 'lying' just fine in reference

to Clinton.

[Samantha]

18. In 2000 Bush branded a man regarded to have high personal integrity

as a "liar." That man was Al Gore. If Bush* is going to dish it out, you get the picture.

Let's call a spade a spade. Knowing now what we know about the average American voter, that simple word "liar" cannot be misconstrued. Looking at Bush*s record during his tenure as the governor of the State of Texas, that record speaks for itself. It buttresses the use of the word "liar." Read Molly Ivins for more information.

Politicians from Texas do not consider lying a sin -- they consider it an art. If one does not do it well, he or she is not a good politician. Consequently, Texans perceive Bush* is an excellent politician.

[Cleita]

19. That's too funny except that it is also so maddening.

eom

[leesa]

21. No, LYING in big bold letters works for me.