Dems Giving Homeless Cigarettes for Votes?

[durutti]

Can anyone provide me with a counterpoint to or refutation of this right-wing talking point?

[Caution]

1. yeh ask them for evidence

this is just an absurd smear. tell them you heard that republicans were buying the homeless liquor.

[displacedtexan]

21. Most states have 60 or 90 day deadlines to register before voting.

You could only get away with this if your state lets you register to vote up to and on election day.
If you vote, you know that the poll workers are downright religious when it comes to making sure that you are who you say you are and that you are on their big alphabetical list.
Homeless people can't even get food stamps. How could they register to vote?

I suppose this may be possible in some weird-assed places, but I'm sure Repukes are just as guilty of this as dems... if it happens at all.

[GinaMaria]

39. Most areas require that you have a address

to register to vote. Many homeless people cannot register because they have no address. What district do they vote in?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

2. they say that EVERY year, with no proof

why bother?

[Bonhomme Richard]

3. Where do I go?

[seabeyond]

4. it was a mid west state

and yes they did

republicans did things too. we can own what we do. i dont believe in denying a truth. doesnt hurt. lets learn and not do again. this year we give them a sandwich

[ewagner]

6. The claim was made in Milwaukee

during the 2002 elections. There was an investigation but I don't know what came of it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. proof?

anything?

[seabeyond]

15. i saw a video

way back when. a carton opened and people handing out pack. proof. i cannot and dont really care. wasnt issue to me then and not now. as someone below pointed out, the republicans were doing their thing. every election this goes on one way or another. not new and not unknown. believe dont, doesnt matter. thought it was all silly then republicans making a deal out of nothing like they had done the whole campaigning season

[charlie]

10. No telling what really happened...

Glynn said that Milstein, along with friends and relatives from New York, came to Wisconsin "on their own power and paid their own way" in an effort to get out the vote "for people who were otherwise disenfranchised."

"Some of these people, after they had voted, noticed that she was a smoker and asked her for cigarettes," Glynn said. "She told them that, sure, they could have some and asked if anyone else wanted some.

"They went to a store and bought some and gave them to those who asked for them."

.....

Glynn said he believed there was room to contest the case, but Milstein has decided not to do so, and he felt that was best, considering the circumstances.

.....

"As it is now, any nursing home that offers rides to the polls for its patients commits a felony under the law," Glynn contended. "Any restaurant that offers free coffee to people who come in wearing an 'I Voted' sticker commits a felony.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may01/smokes04050301a.asp

[salin]

32. er... folks... responding to ewagner

didn't claim truth to the claim - just that it was made... I remember the charge as well and that it was about an urban area in Wisconsin. Geez, just offering off the top of the head what the story line had been (so tht folks who want can look it up) isn't claiming truth of falseness to the story - just a sort of "hey I remember that storyline... think it was (year) in (place).

My memory is the same as ewagner's. Does this mean that I am making false accusations? No - just pointing out where the story was and when (and those who want can go track down not only the story - but whether anything ever came of it - and if not - allow the story to be debunked).

[bobbyboucher]

14. Give some proof. Were you there?

Stop pretending, please, it is embarrasing.

[hang a left]

18. Did they fill out the registration forms for them also?

[tom_paine]

20. Very Fair Und Balanced

(doesn't it sound better in the original German to your ears?)

Lies and the Lying Liars That Tell Them

(what a great book)

LIES and the LYING LIARS that TELL THM

Wasn't that a great book about Lying Liars?

Eh?

Really, please tell me what your opinion is on Lying Liars. Who can spot a Lying Liars?

What are your comments on SPOTTING a LYING LIAR?

Just curious.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tom_paine]

25. I called you nothing. But I find it telling that you're so defensive.

I asked you about the Franken book. Why are you so defensive?

Of course, you could provide proof if you are feeling guilty.

I apologize for striking a nerve. A guilty conscience is a hard thing to deal with. I was just asking you about a book.

But maybe showing some proof will assuage your guilt.

CREDIBLE proof. Rush corroborated by Drudge doesn't count.

But then, you know that, don't you.

Don't you?

[seabeyond]

27. i read the book

and being in a place where i only hear republican blah blah blah, i was on a couple day high reading the book. he had expressed so many things, i too had talked about and was good to hear someone else say them out loud.

i am sorry i made the assumption you were talking to me. i read it twice, with the knowledge you didnt write my name, was unclear to me

the rest whatever.

[tom_paine]

34. So how about proof of this story?

Got a link to it? You seem to think it's true. Actually you seem to "know" it's true.

I don't. Particularly given the Bushevik penchant for lying, fabricating, and distorting a grain of truth into a monstrous 99% lie, I distrust the story.

How do you know it's true?

[ma4t]

36. Here's a link

<http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/sh/election2000/stories/election2000-20001105-143203.html>


It's time to face reality. Not every Republican is evil, not every Democrat is 100% sweetness and light. Sometimes Democrats cross the line, sometimes Republicans do. Actually I'd guess that both parties have adherents that engage in questionable behavior every election.

[tom_paine]

37. "Not every Republican is evil, not every Democrat 100% sweetness and lite"

Absolutely.

However, Busheviks, as opposed to Republicans, have a much higher percentage of evil.

Naturally, the Democrats aren't 100% perfectly moral. Of course, no one here argues that, as far as I've seen.

They do look very "sweetness and light" when put up next to Busheviks. So? The Bushevik's would look pretty moral when put up next to the Nazis (Grandpa Prescott Bush's Business Partners).

I would look skinny surrounded by 8 700 lb. fat people.

You are right when you said Sometimes Democrats cross the line, sometimes Republicans do.

But a Bushevik crosses the line routinely and as part of organized policy. Then they lie about it. Not just a regular lie but an Orwellian insult to the intelligence usually onthe rder of 1 + 1 = 3. When caught in that lie, they then tell six more, hoping (and they are usually correct) that this new blizzard of lies will be so hard to unpack and generate new outrage, thus obscuring the original lie and outrage.

For the Busheviks, what was done during Watergate comprises but a fraction of their Black Ops today.

Busheviks are neither Republicans nor Democrats...they are Totalitarians. What would ideally happen is that the Republicans would expel these Totalitarian Tyrants from their party (let the Busheviks form the Imperial Party, though that would be a bit truthful for them).

Since that's not happening, and the Republicans are just perhaps beginning to wake to the Faustian Deal with Totalitarian Scum they made in order to gain leadership of Amerika, then it is up to us.

[John_H]

30. Here's what REALLY happened

A registered Republican, who, she said, on behalf of her allegedly dem college aged son had donated to the DNC, flew into Milwaukee with her son and a couple of buddies, rented a van, picked up a carton of cigarettes and went around to homeless shelters giving out packages which had food a couple of cigarettes to homeless people, then drove them to vote.

A local pro-bush media whore for a TV station who's radio station runs wing nut talk shows all day long, picked up the story and ran with it. The national whores looked into it aggresively, and even they saw it was utter BS.

Was this woman trying to help out her son? Was she duped into doing it by a bush op? Were she and her son Bush ops? Who knows?

One thing is certain. The Gore campaign got thousands of 100% legal early votes, sometimes a hundred a pop, by setting up events at which dem surrogates spoke and informed people about Wisconsin's early voting law.

Like they were going to risk a blatantly improper act to get twenty votes from homeless people, many of whom probably didn't have enough ID to register.

Shyeah right.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mountainman]

47. Wher is your proof if this?

[papau]

5. In Mich Dem's had a get the vote out- video of "volunteers" offering

a cigarette while giving folks a ride to the polls was made.

No one has ID'd the volunteers - the flying in of a video crew to make the expose implies to some a GOP group acting out and using their video of themselves to throw dirt on Dems.

First Point then is - were these really Dems?

2nd point is - a cigarette (not packs - just one on the video I saw) is a big deal because of what?

#rd point - GOP costs/give aways to those that get the vote out for the GOP was how much?

4th point - what was illegal?

[Nevernose]

7. Chicago was infamous for this, weren't they?

And in Texas, the GOP was going to nursing homes, getting Alzheimer's patients to absentee Repug.

[papau]

48. Chicago used buses to vote the dead via homeless, GOP areas in

Illinois - called DOWNSTATE -meaning not Cook County - lost minority votes and found scratches that made for a no count because a confused voter - in 1963 the Ill Courts ruled the GOP screwing Dems in downstate via scratches was illegal - but the vote dumping continue through out the 60's (the DesPlaines river always showed up with a few votes - and boxes somehow did not get to the counting area)

Indeed in 1960 when Nixon wanted to sue about Chicago's voting the dead it was pointed out to him that Downstate had stolen more votes for him than Daley had for JFK. He dropped the court action (granted the court action was by "friends" of Nixon - but Nixon did not OK dropping it until 12/23 - making the screams of the USSC and the GOP on the nead for speed on 12/12 - justifying a stop vote counting ruling - seem just a bit biased and criminal)

[tom_paine]

8. Just more Bushevik Pravda

Which usually indicates that Busheviks are trading cigarettes to homeless people for votes.

OR WORSE!

The Busheviks love to project their vileness onto others, like the Nazis did with Jews.

This is either a half-truth (perhaps a quarter-truth) or an outright fasbrication (how would the Bushevik Dupes tell the difference?) or it is what the Busheviks themselves practice and they are innoculating against the day when their "cigarettes for votes" program is discovered.

WWSD? (What Would Stalin Do?)

[DemoTex]

11. When I'm in Dallas I do volunteer work at a soup kitchen ...

I sort and distribute mail for the homeless clients there. January brought new voter registration cards in Dallas. We received at least 400 for homeless clients who are registered to vote. Many of them become very excited when I give them their new voter registration cards. I usually say something neutral like, "Be sure to use this thing." They say something like, "Don't you worry, Mr. Postman. I'll be the first in line when the polls open. I'll just sleep there. I can't wait to vote!" Occasionally, a political comment is made. I have never, ever heard a pro-Bu$h or pro-GOP sentiment at the soup kitchen.

Be sure to remind the wingnuts of their tactics to intimidate poor and minority groups on election day. Some of their dirty tricks include putting up posters in "Democratic" neighborhoods urging residents to vote, with an election date the day after the real election. They also put up posters and hand out fliers about the election with warnings to have all traffic tickets paid and/or outstanding warrants cleared.

[nannygoat]

51. Another GOP dirty trick...

Are these GOP leaders aware of their dirty tricks?
http://www.thehill.com/marshall/021903.aspx

<snip>
Should high-profile Republican Senators and Representatives be affiliated with a man now being investigated for sabotaging Democratic phone-banks in New Hampshire last election day?

<snip>
As every pol knows, telemarketing is the dark underbelly of modern campaign politics. Not that most phone-bank operators don’t perform legitimate work – polling, get-out-the-vote calls, and campaign messages. But the really nasty stuff from Dems and Republicans almost always happens by telephone, where low-rent tactics easily slip under the media radar.

Only last election day, one bit of nastiness didn’t quite slip through. Early last November, now-Senator John Sununu (R-NH) was in a tight race with New Hampshire Governor Jeanne Shaheen. Over at party headquarters, New Hampshire GOP Executive Director Chuck McGee decided Sununu needed a little more help to get past the finish line. So he called Virginia-based ‘GOP Marketplace’ to help place what the state party still insists were supposed to be get-out-the-vote calls.

Whatever they want to call it, McGee and GOP Marketplace President Allen Raymond took a novel approach. Rather than trying to turn out GOP voters, they figured it would just be easier to sabotage the Democrats’ get-out-the-vote operation instead. McGee paid GOP Marketplace $15,600 to hire Idaho-based Milo Enterprises to place non-stop five-second hang-up calls to phone banks run by New Hampshire Democrats. If you think about it in Cold War terms, it was sort of like a phone bank first strike. The Dems’ phone bank were shut down for several hours and only came back online late in the morning after Verizon stepped in and shut down the attack.

More...

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. They make that claim every year

You muight ask them which election, which area and what dates they're thinking of because I've read stories that Republicans did it in one state in 2000, posing as Democrats to generate propaganda.


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
http://bushspeaks.com
http://cronus.com

[radwriter0555]

13. This happened once during the gore campaign, when some errant volunteers

who in fact came from another state, were allegedly doing this.

They were asked by Gore campiagn headquarters to immediately cease, and did.

This is the statement from the Gore Campaign at the time, on the subject;
"This kind of activity described by Channel 12 is not the kind of help we ask for and it's the kind of help we flat-out reject. These volunteers were from out of state, acting on their own and this was not part of any official Democratic 'get out the vote' activity in Wisconsin. They have left the state and we will not invite them to return," wrote Susan Lagana, a spokeswoman for the Democratic Coordinated Campaign.

here is the article on it.

http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/mil/election2000/itsyourvote/stories/-20001105-134550.html

Which is worse? Stealing an election or having some errant volunteers do the wrong thing?

End of story.

[seabeyond]

16. i think this is it

what i remember. once found out it was absolutely put down and nah people we dont need to do this.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. WTF!

if that were true it would be kinda funny in a very sad way!

[seabeyond]

i am a smoker

i have given homeless cigs, i know the really really wanting one thing. i too thought it ironic seeing all the p.c.ers telling me the horrid person i am as a smoker (sister in law being one, liberal in cape cod) handing out cigs for votes.

[bobbyboucher]

26. Stop stretching so far.

You're going to pull a muscle. Cigarettes for votes? Prove it. Just because you might sell your vote for a fag doesn't mean that is what happened. Homeless people ask me for smokes all the time. I don't doubt they would do it if I were getting out the vote.

Don't give me this "voting for cigarettes" bullshit, that ain't what happened. They have the right to vote, FYI, so don't make claims, directly or otherwise, that you cannot prove.

Giving someone a fag is not buying their vote, no matter how many times Rush says so.

[lpbk2713]

19. Tell em the RW'ers are handing out Oxycontin in return for votes.

Provided by their poster boy Pimple-butt of course.

[SOS]

23. Meanwhile

Bush is giving billions in tax cuts to his contributors.

[seabeyond]

24. i think there are greater issues

go figure. just dont put a big deal in this.

[mac56]

31. "Don't put a big deal in this"?

I thought you had started this thread, but you didn't. Nonetheless, my friend, the only one putting a big deal in this is you.

[blondeatlast]

53. Thread starter is a notorious drive-by poster.

As well as another D word, but not necessarily Democrat.

[DieboldMustDie]

28. If you were to give someone cigarettes to get them to the polls...

how would you know who they voted for once they got inside the booth?

[seabeyond]

29. it was a couple individuals

wasnt all the democrat party. a couple misguided people. and as soon as gore was called on it he stood up like a leader. whats the issue here. ultimately he did the honorable thing, though in the moment was an embarrassment.

[OneTwentyoNine]

35. LOL,What did Enron give Gopers for votes?? n/t

[FlaGranny]

38. The republican story is that this is the way a Democrat

wins any election. They always give cigarettes to homeless people as that's the only way they could possibly win. Giving cigarettes to homeless people is MUCH, MUCH worse than electronic election rigging, voter roll purges, etc., etc. Didn't you get the memo?

Seriously, this story has been around for decades. If true, I don't doubt it is true on BOTH sides, and the OTHER side can afford much more of this than can Democrats.

[Cleita]

40. They say this every year.

They also say that they are registering illegal aliens. I think the truth is that they are the ones doing this because they thought of it. Also, there were rumors that Church based charities did this in the last election by withholding services and food from the homeless until they agreed to vote for the REPUBLICAN candidate.

If you are arguing with a right wing conservative throw that one in their faces and see how they counter the argument. If they say it's all lies then you can claim the same.

[seabeyond]

41. truth is empowering

it allows a freedom, and rightousness. it is not painful. and gore set a good example and to the person who said how to respond to the right

what would happened if we owned this and said yup it happened and bad bad it was so bad gore said stop not who we are. not going to have that in our party. and a pat on the back for him, he set a good example and something to be proud of. cause that is who we want to be as a party and the big contrast to the right, they wont own things, things right in front of our face and time and time and time again it is denied, like if i lie it will become the truth. but it doesnt. and that is not the people we want to be.

taking the higher ground. isnt that a good thing

[denverbill]

42. Tell him that if there weren't so many homeless under Bush,

it wouldn't be an issue.

[seabeyond]

43. that wouldnt work

it was 2000, 8 years of clinton office, lol

[denverbill]

46. Oh, I didn't know we were talking about a historical event.

I guess anecdotal evidence that Democrats persuaded a few homeless men to vote with cigarette bribes is a much bigger story than Republicans scrubbing 100,000 people from the voters rolls in Florida though.

When it comes to election cheating, Republicans are peerless.

[w4rma]

44. If it never happened, what proof would there be that it never happened?

One can only refute the alleged proof, on a case by case basis, cited by those who believe the smear.

Maybe the best way to respond would be to simply say:
"No, Republicans are giving the homeless cigarettes for their votes. Prove me wrong."

Maybe forcing them to refute their own statement will make some of them think about the problem of stating it without evidence.

[CityZen-X]

45. Refute For Rethugs

Rethugs giving Crack Pipes for votes!
If you are not a millionaire and you vote Rethuglican, you have to be on crack!

[onecitizen]

49. That rumor has been spread since we had cigarettes.......

well, guess what? It's true. I am sure that somewhere in the US during any election, that that goes on. Cause there are poor people out there that would do anything for a smoke and let's face it, they could care less about politics. But trust me, it isn't just the dems that do this.

[blondeatlast]

50. Third disruptive post this week. DUers, please... nt

[cureautismnow]

52. Tell Them to Read "All the President's Men"

There they'll find many instances of Republican dirty tricks including paying people to pretend they're Democrats and go around defecating in the streets and flying banners that read "Legalize Pot - Vote McGovern."

I wouldn't put it past the latter-day Repukes to pose as Dem.'s handing out cigs to homeless people. I recall the story originated in Michigan, but the crooked pranksters must have figured out that you must have already been registered there to vote. So, they took their perpetually dirty tactics to a neighboring state where the rules were different.

ATPM should be REQUIRED reading for all young (non-affluent0 conservatives.

[efhmc]

54. A lie, of course and really not worth the breathe to repute.

[leetrisck]

55. And Republican's handing out stock certificates

in tobacco companies.

[Doctor_J]

56. Repubs purging voter rolls