Marine war resister, acquitted of desertion, jailed for AWOL, now freed

[ConsAreLiars]

http://www.notinourname.net/funk/

"March 1, 2004

After spending nearly six months in the military brig at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, Stephen has returned to the San Francisco Bay Area and has been speaking out against the ongoing occupation--and the ongoing military recruiting efforts required to fight these wars."

Bay area celebrations planned (see link).

[Columbia]

1. If he was such a conscientious objector

Why did he join the military in the first place?

[ComerPerro]

2. Pay for college, one weekend a month...

Could have something to do with the fact that he was a reservist.

[Columbia]

3. He could've gotten more money working at a fast-food restaurant

Than the military pays a reservist.

It's fine to be a conscientious objector. What I find questionable is those people who suddenly find out they are one when they discover that they may have to fulfill the obligations of the contract they sign.

[ConsAreLiars]

4. Yup, You sign up to defend your country

and when the BFEE orders you into a war of agression the "honorable" thing is to just go along. If Calley tells you to slaughter the villagers at My Lai, the "honorable" thing is to follow orders and kill babies. Yeah, right. Maybe in your world.

[Columbia]

5. Nice strawman

Kill babies. Very original.

[ConsAreLiars]

7. "kill babies"

Not a strawman. This vile and cowardly attack on Iraq was a war crime. Refusing to participate requires both a high level of understanding and a conscience. 99% of those ordered into this war have the latter, but lack the former. This guy was in the tiny minority who had both. Your "just follow your orders" BS is just a contemporary variant of the fascist talking points that were put on trial at Nuremberg.

As for the baby-killing "strawman" (Warning: graphic images):
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
http://www.robert-fisk.com/the_evidence.htm

[Columbia]

8. Fascist talking points eh?

"Refusing to participate requires both a high level of understanding and a conscience. 99% of those ordered into this war have the latter, but lack the former."

Really? Did you take a survey? I'm interested to see your stats.

"Your "just follow your orders" BS is just a contemporary variant of the fascist talking points that were put on trial at Nuremberg."

Hmm... I never said anything about following orders... wonder if this is another strawman? Yup, guess so.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Quite a few...

military members either reconsider their views on war, or end up seeing the military as not for "defense" but less wholesome adventures.

Even during WWII, and moreso during Vitnam and even Gulf I, there were people in uniform who chose to resist actual action that they saw as immoral, and there is a mechanism for these people to either be reassigned to noncomabat units or receive a discharge.

Early Quakers in Britain, btw, who preached nonviolence and refused to fight in wars, found the barracks of King James' armies to be among their most fertile recruiting grounds.

Now that we have a smaller all-volunteer military, these actions are far less common, and most of the organizations working with them have folded. The only major one working with them now is Quaker House, which backed Stephen Funk.

Are they questioned as being disloyal, cowards, or stupid for signing up in the first place? Of course these questions are raised, but the answers are not so simple. Each individual has a different story, and quick judgments by people who don't know them should be avoided.

[Columbia]

9. Thanks for your response

Every case is indeed different and from looking at some of the articles posted on the website cited, it seems that this person was given fair, due process. Many others who conscientiously objected were not even prosecuted. This Marine chose not to show up instead of declaring CO status and it was this charge that he was convicted on.

[el_gato]

10. The "well he should just follow orders" schtick doesn't fly

sometimes the ugly truth rears it's head and people
have a change of heart.
It takes alot of guts to sit in the brig for moral reasons.

[Lars39]

11. Could it be that he had no idea an insane administration would

attempt world domination? That he had no idea that the bush* admin. would mistreat the military so badly? No rational fairly-informed person would imagine that the US would lie to go to war.