Is it just me or does it seem the obese/overweight are fair game?

[rhino47]

I was watching nightline on came an ad for Amstel Light.
There was a morbidly obese man in a hockey uniform.
It shows the crowd cheering.The obese man stumbled onto the ice
the next shot is of his butt heading into the goal obscuring it.
The ad said where does it say that overweight people can`t be professional athletes .I found this offensive.I think that
on tv print and in life the overweight and obese made fun of or
outright discriminated against.There is no protection for them at all .I think it`s a disability in some cases.I am of average size.
I see how this unchecked discrimination has effected my slightly overweight daughter of 11.Her life is an endless sense of torment.Though she is not allowed to watch broadcast tv I know she
has access to ads like this at my mother in laws.I can tell they reaffirm the message she gets from bullies at school and on the bus.
Airlines charge you two times for a ticket if you are obese.There are alot more examples .If you are fat you are fair game or so it seems.

[emanymton]

1. Sadly, People Are Fair Game

I love laughing at the "Three Stooges."

[TahitiNut]

2. Of course.

After all, having one's life expectancy cut short, one's health seriously threatened, having a difficult time finding clothes that fit, airplane seats that fit, and other everyday difficulties just isn't enough "punishment" is it?

We owe it to our fellow man to make each and every one as much more miserable as we possibly can whenever we disapprove of their appearance or self-inflicted behavior.

Of all drugs, self-righteousness is the most addictive. I'm sure hooked. Yup. Can't ya tell? :silly:

[rhino47]

4. Well said

I just get discouraged when I see what my daughter is going through.
She started talking about a diet and losing weight when she was 5.
*same time age she started school connection?*I try to teach her
to love herself as she is.Eat healthy and exercise and your body will be as it was intended.People are meant to be different sizes.
It`s hard to get a young girl to believe this when barraged daily
with images of stick people.I heard somewhere that marilyn monroe
was a size 12 .Aslo in 1960 the average model was 8 % thinner then the average woman ,today its 27 thinner.

[Spirochete]

7. and somebody -

(Elizabeth Hurley, I think) said about Monroe that if she was as fat as Marilyn, she would kill herself, too.
I really liked her till I heard she said that. It was probably just lust, though.

[TheRedMan]

24. Urban legend...right therewith marey carey "thin, but not flies and stuff"

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm

Liz Hurley has almost the same measurements as Monroe, though she is taller.

[Sparkle]

35. That remind me of something Cindy Crawford said about Monica Lewinsky

on Bill Mahr. I don't remember her exact words but she made it seem that Monica was ugly because she wasn't thin like her. Didn't like the fake twit after she said that.

[madrchsod]

3. i find any commercial

that makes fun of peoples physical problems tasteless. morbidly obese and even obese people suffer from life threating problems, it isn`t something that should be used to sell "soap"

[maggrwaggr]

6. I find men are made fun of in the media, and they're usually overweight

and balding as well.

The man is always the portly weak and impotent-looking fool, married to the smart, can-do woman. The kids and the woman are both always smarter and funnier than he is, and the humor comes from his befuddlement and helplessness.

This bothers me. This has become "everyman". A flabby, sexless, weak and resigned goofball.

As a man, I find this very bothersome. As a father, I find it bothersome as well.

Not to steal the thread, or to even attempt it. I feel very bad for what your daughter's going through, and for how you must feel having to see it.

It's the commercials I'm talking about.

[rhino47]

9. You are right .I have seen men made fun of too.

I think the worst culprits are ads that are aimed at kids.Such as Mcdonalds ads , that vicks ad where the dad is protrayed as a "loser" just to be bossed around.

[CO Liberal]

5. I'm Been Active in Size Acceptance For Years

Fat people are the last group that it is considered "socially acceptable" to mock, offend and publically humiliate.

Let the record state that I am 5'10" and 230 pounts - my wife is 5'3" and over 300. And I love every inch of her,

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. No way, it's socially acceptable to mock gay people

And stupid criminals that get caught easy, and Arabs, the French, liberals, feminists, transgender people, intersexuals, children, little people, men who don't act like dicks, people wearing any clothing that's not usual, people with hair color other than blond, brown or black.... I could go on.

Oh, and politicians you don't like.

Sorry, I had to chime in on that one because the facts are against you and this is NOT in support of ridiculing fat people, but instead in favor of eliminating any and all forms of public mockery and scapegoating. It won't change unless we see it happen in all walks of life, not just on this one issue.

"FUCK BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[rhino47]

10. Kick

:yourock:

[Ready4Change]

11. Two seats

I've mixed feelings regarding obese people. On one hand, I feel the "people" part of that label is the most important part. Undeniably they should be granted the same respect as anyone else. But at the same time, they should bear the same responsibilities as everyone else as well.

I'm a private pilot. As such, I've done weight and balance calculations for carrying a variety of passengers. I'm constantly reminded how truly weight DOES matter in flight. The small private planes I've flown would have a hard time getting myself and a 300lb passenger into the air. (I'm a 200lb male, BTW.) And getting such a passenger larger than that into and out of those planes would take some forethought. I took my brother who's around 250lbs and that was a squeeze.

So to me it makes total sense that, if a person weighs as much as 2 average adults, and truly takes up the space of 2 seats, that person should pay extra.

If we pass some law that an obese person can't be charged extra, that means the airline risks loosing profits. (Filled seats=dollars to airlines.) And since we know corporations won't allow lost profits, that means the cost will get spread amongst all the other passengers.

So now I'm footing the bill for an obese persons extra requirements. Does that obese person pay for my eyeglasses? My braces for correcting my crooked teeth? Rogaine for my bald head? Those are real physical limitations I can't do anything about either.

Whose volunteering to foot the bill for MY physical limitations?

[Merlin]

12. Oh, please...

How many overweight people do you know take up more than one seat on an airplane?

I am 6'1" and weigh 290 (all right, 300). One seat works fine. Nobody is comfortable on planes, and I'm a little less comfortable. C'est la vie.

Anyone who builds a small plane so it can't carry a 300 pound passenger is asinine. It's like building a plane that can't carry anybody over 6'1" tall.

If a person is so large they need two seats, then they should pay for two seats. Otherwise, they should pay for one. As far as I know, that's the policy. It's perfectly reasonable.

I don't know what the answer to obesity is. But it's not sanctimonious bullshit about eating less and eating right, because once you're over 40, your body will relentlessly, unyieldingly, pathologically resist everything you try to do to lose weight.

Nobody knows the answer. It's an affliction and to riducule or shun people who are overweight is inhumane. Even most Republicans aren't that insensitive.

[Ready4Change]

31. Small plane designs. Large plane concerns.

Most small planes are designed around a "standard" person. That standard is more like an average. It used to be 150lbs, but todays designers usually plan for more. Yet I'm 6' and 200lbs, and I usually need to think a bit before getting into a new plane, to figure out how to fold myself in the doorway. It is not at all uncommon at an airshow to hear a large pilot considering a vendors aircraft say that he/she really likes the plane, but just can't fit inside it. Luckily (or smartly) there are many planes better designed for larger people.

That's just fitting a large person in the plane. The other concern is weight and balance. For an aircraft to fly safely it not only must be light enough for the wings to lift, but that weight must be located correctly, otherwise the pilot may have difficulty controlling the plane in flight. I've once flown a plane near it's balance limits, and that definitely got my attention!

But that's small planes. When we start talking about large airliners, it stops being a safety issue and starts being a question of economics.

[nayt]

39. disagree

i was recently on a delta flight from knoxville to atlanta in coach and had to sit next to an obese woman. i weigh 165 and am 6'0". it was extremely unpleasant. i should have received a discount considering i only got to use half my seat. people who take up more than one seat should pay for both.

[DemBones DemBones]

13. BIGGER SEATS are needed.

People are getting bigger but seats are not -- some are even smaller. And the rows are so close together that the person in the window seat can't leave his/her seat without the person in the aisle seat getting up first.

But look at the seats in first class! If you can (and are willing to) pay big bucks to fly, they sure as hell don't want you to be uncomfortable or made to feel fat.

Planes could put in a few larger seats in coach and charge large people a bit more, but not a whole extra fare, which few can afford.

[Gothic Sponge]

15. With americas average weight going up

year by year they will need bigger seats. I can't speak for everyone, but i know i gained weight when i was working in front of my computer all day. It's not that i ate a poor diet (Hell i'm a vegetarian!) I was just living a sedentary lifestyle. I now do 45 mins a day on the treadmill. It's very easy for some to gain weight without pigging out. I have nothing but compassion for heavy people. Their self-esteem is probably low already. Why kick someone when they are down?

[Andy_Stephenson]

16. I need to get my lard ass on a treadmill!

Since working on BBV I have gained almost 50 lbs.

Yikes.

[skippysmom]

29. Plane seats are uncomfortable for EVERYONE

No matter what you weigh! I'm a tall woman, and even if I sit on the aisle I am so cramped.

[Ready4Change]

32. I agree.

I've no doubt the airlines would pack us in like sardines, if they thought passengers would still pay for the trip. In such circumstances it is the people on the edges of "average" who get discomfited first and complain. The airlines hear those complaints, and try to figure out how much profit they can get before the complaints start hurting the bottom line. If you find the seats unacceptably small, that's because you have higher expectations for your dollars worth than the other passengers.

That's also why First Class exists. Passengers in first class are willing to pay for luxury. Complaining that first class passenger have it better is just saying that you want those luxuries, but aren't willing to pay for them.

It's not unfair. It's economics.

[BiggJawn]

21. Horsepucky!

My ass fits into ONE seat just fine. what gets me is how my knees on my 6'4" frame get rubbed raw by the seatback in front of me.
I got an idea, why don't the airlines just pack us in there in tiers, head to foot, like in an old slave ship? Then they could minimize their "risk" of lost profits.
Hell, they might be able to pack 400 people into a 727 that way.

[mac2]

28. We have the same problem..

Both of us are tall and airline seats are horrible.

[Gothic Sponge]

30. I'm tall too

6'5" Oh my poor knees!

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. Do we charge people based on height as well?

The seats are not designed for people above a certain size. Anything heavier OR taller causes problems.

I agree it's an issue, but if we are going to deal with it, we must be fair.

[Ready4Change]

33. Nope.

Tall people typically don't need other seats vacated for their comfort.

That's because the lengths of peoples thighs don't vary nearly as much as their width, and because the height of cabins needs to accomodate walking people, so headroom isn't as critical as hiproom.

[BiggJawn]

38. You're right, I don't...

The person next to me is usually pretty understanding, and doesn't mind me putting my legs over theirs to keep my knees from being bruised.

The headroom in these cattle cars of the air ain't much to brag about, either. I rode the "Evangelical Airline" this fall, and the knee room was fine. But next month, I'm riding ATA, and while *I* may be "on vacation", the knees will be in hell.

<sarcasm off>

[eridani]

14. Indeed

Fat 'fact' takes on life of its own
Paul Campos, Rocky Mt. News
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_1213969,00.html
June 18, 2002

An abiding weakness of the conventional wisdom is that, once a supposed fact has become part of that wisdom, it becomes almost impossible to dislodge it.

Contemporary journalism contributes to this problem by relying on technologies that help ensure an assertion, once it is repeated enough times, will never be checked against the actual evidence. Consider for example the claim that fat kills 300,000 Americans per year, and is thus the nation's second-leading cause of premature death, trailing only cigarettes. A Lexis database search reveals that this "fact" has been repeated in more than 1,000 news stories over the past three years alone. Yet the evidence for this claim is so slim as to be practically nonexistent.

As University of Virginia professor Glen Gaesser points out in the forthcoming revised edition of his book Big Fat Lies, the supposed source for this claim was a 1993 medical study that made no such assertion. That study attributed around 300,000 extra deaths per year to sedentary lifestyle and poor dietary habits, not to weight, which was not even evaluated as a risk factor. Indeed the authors of the study, Michael McGinnis and William Foege, became so frustrated by the chronic miscitation of their data that in 1998 they published a letter in the New England Journal of Medicine, objecting to the misuse of their study.

A year later the journal published an article which actually did assert that obesity causes approximately 300,000 deaths annually. This article, "Annual Deaths Attributable to Obesity in the United States," is a classic example of junk science at its worst. After calculating the death risk associated with various weight levels derived from six epidemiological studies, the authors employed the following assumption: "Our calculations assume that all excess mortality in obese people is due to their obesity" (emphasis added). That was, to put it mildly, a remarkable assumption. As Gaesser points out, "the authors made no attempt to determine whether other factors -- such as physical inactivity, low fitness levels, poor diet, risky weight loss practices, and less-than-adequate access to health care, just to name a few -- could have explained some, or all, of the excess mortality in fat people."

In fact there is a great deal of evidence that such factors are far more relevant to mortality than weight. Indeed, long-term studies conducted at Dallas' Cooper Institute, involving tens of thousands of subjects tracked for a decade or more, have concluded that all of the excess mortality associated with increasing weight is accounted for by activity levels, not weight. These studies show moderately active fat people have far lower mortality rates than thin sedentary people, and essentially the same mortality rates as thin active people. In other words, adding just one variable to the mix -- activity levels -- eliminates fat as a risk factor (the activity levels associated with optimum mortality rates are quite modest -- a brisk daily half-hour walk will by itself put a person in these
categories).

Furthermore the 300,000-deaths-per-year figure was derived without taking into account factors such as yo-yo dieting and diet drug use, both of which have been shown to have devastating effects on health. Nor were variables such as class -- poor people die sooner than the well-off -- and social discrimination, which has been shown to have a very negative impact on health, taken into account. In short, the claim that fat causes 300,000 deaths per year should be dismissed as an assertion for which there is essentially no evidence. Journalists in particular ought to start noticing that fact, rather than endlessly reprinting the same piece of junk science.

Paul Campos is a professor of law at the University of Colorado. He can be contacted at [e-mail].

[kayell]

17. Thank you

from a large person who tries to live healthy. I am a strict vegetarian, careful about my nutritional levels, moderately active, and formerly VERY active, who eats less than 2000 calories per day average. My body is apparently very efficient in its use of calories - it WANTS to stay at this weight. When I was young, I was naturally what could be considered excessively underweight, while eating like a hog. People considered me then self disciplined and worthy of praise, now some people think I must be incredibly self indulgent. I'm not a different person - I do seem to have a different metabolism.

I see a lot of overweight people who torture themselves with horrifying diets, and even purgatives, trying to live up to the societal ideal. HOW can that be healthier than just ignoring the scales, and trying to live a healthy life style?

[rhino47]

37. Thanks Eridani for the very insightful post

:kick:

[depakid]

18. Apparently not in Portland, Oregon

I don't mean to make light of a serious health issue that causes people a lot of pain, but the alternative Willamette Week pointed out that it does seem socially easier to be overweight in Oregon:

...The people behind Match.com, a popular online personals service, keep track of the dating preferences of their 12 million members. When they looked to see which city's romance-seekers most often stated a preference for someone who carries "a few extra pounds," Portland came up the winner. (See box on page 15 for more about Portland's paradoxical weight issues.)

Oregonians, it seems, have a degree of fat acceptance. This isn't Southern California, where they sneer at those who aren't bikini-ready, or New York, where every square inch of space in the subway counts. (As one anonymous Manhattan resident and former Portlander told us, "If I don't watch it when I turn around in a restaurant, my ass might take out a whole table of supermodels.")

One way to measure our relative lack of vanity is to see how addicted to plastic surgery we are. For Portland, the Yahoo! Yellow Pages only lists 11 plastic surgeons per 100,000 people. That's fewer than Seattle (13.5) and San Francisco (15.4)--and let's not even talk about Las Vegas or Los Angeles.

This is a place where one could build a business on the concept that fatness is OK, even cool. Stacy Bias, a 29-year-old Web designer, is slowly doing just that. She argues that the issue of obesity is a big, chubby red herring. "Weight isn't the issue," says Bias. "Fitness is the issue. Fitness and fatness are not mutually exclusive."

More from Page 3 of the online article

[Loonman]

19. The skinny are fair game, too

But nobody will admit it.

Only the average are safe.

[Ready4Change]

34. There is no average.

What I actually mean is that very few people fit within all the parameters of "average." Everyone sticks out somewhere.

I think there's a gulf of difference between expecting people to pay to accomodate their differences, and belittling them for those differences. I think some people are confused about that difference.

[bleedingheart]

20. It is not just the obese, its the retarded, the blind, the kids with

glasses...etc

the list is too long...

[Nihil]

22. Maybe because they're a large target?

Everyone who isn't "us" is "them" to some people.

Likewise, everyone who has been "them" at some time has laughed when
they were "us" at another time.

Part of it is built into the human psyche. Part of it is being
exploited, exaggerated and enlarged by the current "personal gain at
all costs" environment. Schadenfreude. "I'm alright Jack, f*ck you"

I bet that you will find over-size Republicans who tell "n*gger"
jokes, black evangelists who tell "Jewish" jokes and gay Aussies who
tell "whining Pom" jokes. The same people come over all defensive
when encountering "fat" or "fascist", "coloured" or "Christian" and
"queer" or "convict" jokes (respectively).

(It's a safe bet because I've heard each one of the above personally.)

Life's like that. To improve life, improve yourself.

You never know: if enough people catch on, the world will be a much
better place.

Nihil

[AngryAmish]

25. People with big heads are also mocked

Very socially acceptible.

[Skittles]

26. yes, they are the easy targets of cruel people with no self esteem

I've been sickened by some comments I've read in the DU about the obese.

[californiahippie]

42. yep

I agree that comments against anyone like that says more about the person saying them than the obese person.

[mac2]

27. It's a mixed message they send....

Always telling us to eat bad foods...emmm they taste so good but then push diets are us. I'm sick of diet ads and programs.

Hormones put weight on but they won't tell us that.

Women gain weight as they age..this is natural. Our whole population is aging..with 50% of them over 50 years old. Thus more over weight.

What is disturbing to me is the young who are fat and have high cholesterols because of fast foods, frozen foods, etc. Schools even serve them pop and pizza.

Some in Hollywood should be talked about weight because, they are walking skeletons. They are putting stress on their bones and hearts too. Will someone please tell them!! Get a better diet..eat. All I see are teeth!!

I'd like to go to a restaurant that doesn't put huge amounts of butter and fatty stuff on food. They could do a lot about that!! Many restaurants don't even have vegetables but huge piles of meat.

We should eat less meat. Too much red meat, mainly beef. can cause prostrate cancer in men. Do they talk about that? Nope.

Years ago...they didn't test for diabetes. They do now and have lowered the numbers so more have it. It's good because, you can change your lifestyle.

Diabetes type II is high also from weight gain and stress (lack of sleep can make you gain and get.....).

People are heartless and make fun of people for many things in our society. They are ill mannered and nasty. Sorry anyone has to suffer this type of abuse.

[shanti]

36. fat is the last bastion

of discrimination, and it's everywhere in the u.s.

[formactv]

40. Recess

When I was in high school (1967-71) there were 2 obese girls. Their arrival at school each morning was a minor spectacle: their diminuitive mother would pull up in their old Corvair, the girls would get out, and the car would rise from 2" off the ground to normal clearance. Chuckle chuckle. In a high school of 900 students there were 2 truly obese students. I was told they had a glandular problem.
Since then, two events have shaped our lives to make obesity commonplace among young people: getting rid of recess, and getting into pizza. It is a shame that kids are made to sit all day- it is stupifying. I fear for their futures. Teenagers are very heavy compared to when I was young.
Regarding airplane seats- have you ever sat next to an obese person in coach class? It is a legitimate gripe.Plane seats are small. Either 2 seats or first class is needed. These days planes almost always fly full, and people who weigh over 300 lbs count for 2 when it comes to fuel and lift. It is not a desire to be cruel or unfair.

[rhino47]

41. I can understand part of your what you are saying about the 2 seats

However on the other hand.why not charge a person with say a leg
in a cast or arm thats cast with a rod from elbow to rib.
These take up alot of space.Thing is that would be unthinkable in those situations .I think it should be just as unthinkable to charge
an obese person 2 x fare.I have flown with a person that was larger
beside me.Truth be told I was far more uncomfortable with the drunken
horny guy on the way back from London then the 300 lb woman on the way to florida.

[distortionmarshall]

43. more generally, it's the *weak* who are, by definition, fair game...

otoh, fat people are a group that i've personally never felt much sympathy for....

granted there are those *few* that have diagnosable medical disorders - and that means "diagnosable BEFORE it became fashoinable to medical-ize social problems"...

I completely believe that the bulk (!) of the reason fat americans exist is affluence-induced laziness. Presumably it most commonly starts as a kid, being raised by parent who don't insist on the youngster's spending large amounts of time playing kickball, riding bikes, etc...

I've met fat people who _used_ to be athletic (eg linemen), but never one who got fat _while_ being athletic....

ever noticed how slim n trim asians are? at least they are until they've spent a few generations over here.... so it's almost purely an *american* problem - though the europeans i hear are doing their damndest to catch up...

and the diet, therefore, of course has a role too play... but as I understand it, you can pretty much eat anything you want, as long as you habitually burn off the calories....

I got no answer about how to deal with already-made fat people, but I do know how to stop new ones from being made: get kid's off their tv-watching, videogame playing asses, and send em straight outside to run around acting like idiots! from there, get them involved in sports as children, so that they develop a lil bit of skill, and won't be shy about sports when they're older - bam - future problems solved.... - o yah - don't let em drink anything but milk, juice, and water until they're 16 or so...

:)

[cryofan]

44. pack animal behavior

Any pack animal that stands out physically will be subject to the cruel rules of the pack.

For example, a lion that is a member of a pride has its tail injured in a hunt. That causes the tail to become crooked. That crooked tail is visible to the other lions, and they will gradually oust that lion from the pack through continual harassment and abuse. That is what happens to fat people, or any person who is unusual. That is why you see VERY few people in wheelchairs in these office buildings. That is why fat people rarely have good jobs.