AWOL Bush goes mainstream! Story's hit TIME...

[Octafish]

...of all places. From this week's:

An Absence in Alabama

As Bush's military service re-emerges as an issue, here is what we know—and don't know

By MARK THOMPSON and JAMES CARNEY

Posted Sunday, February 8, 2004

When George W. Bush was running for President four years ago, stories raising questions about his Vietnam-era service in the Texas Air National Guard never got much traction. In the Republican primaries, John McCain forbid his staff to exploit the fact that while their guy was being beaten senseless in the Hanoi Hilton, Bush was safe at home, protecting Houston from foreign attack. Al Gore steered clear too. It was not until a week before Election Day in November 2000 that Gore surrogates accused Bush of having gone AWOL—absent without leave—for an entire year while in the Guard. But few journalists, and fewer voters, paid much attention.

Now, thanks to the convergence of a prolonged war in Iraq, a presumptive Democratic nominee with a chestful of Vietnam combat medals and the eagerness of anti-Bush critics to sling accusations at the President, Bush's National Guard record is under scrutiny. It began with Michael Moore, the flamethrowing documentary filmmaker, labeling Bush a "deserter." Then Terry McAuliffe, the Democratic Party chairman, leveled the less serious AWOL charge.

Citing Bush's honorable discharge, military legal experts dismiss the two accusations as rhetoric. "No military lawyer would say what's being alleged here is either desertion or AWOL," says Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice. But Bush's Guard record is nevertheless emerging as a Rorschach test in the 2004 campaign. Supporters cite the record as evidence of the Commander in Chief's military background and skill: he did well on an officer-qualification test, won praise from fellow pilots for his flying prowess and received an honorable discharge. Opponents see it as a laundry list of how a well-connected Texas scion pulled strings to avoid going to Vietnam, then failed to complete the scant service he signed up for—and now sends tens of thousands of U.S. troops to a war that has lost some of its rationale.

From the start, Bush's military record shows evidence of favoritism, beginning with the way he won a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard in May 1968—a time when nearly 300 Americans a week were coming home in body bags. "I'm saying to myself, 'What do I want to do?'" Bush told a Texas interviewer in 1989. "I think I don't want to be an infantry guy as a private in Vietnam. What I do decide to want to do is learn to fly."

CONTINUED…

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101040216/nservice.html

[pinto]

1. "An Abscence in Alabama", love that line....

[Octafish]

62. Great line is right. They're painting him for a big fall.

Otherwise they wouldn't be putting out the one thing that will sear through the thickest coat of Teflon -- the draft dodger bullet. If it gets out in the general consciousness that Bush IS a draft-dodger, it's good night credibility. Then they'll be asking all sorts of questions about the policies he's espoused and the types of people he's been hanging around. Gangsters mostly, is what the People will discover. And that, too, is a lovely line: Bush Is A Crook!

[Beetwasher]

2. HOT DAMN!

"But Bush, a self-admitted carouser in his younger days, apparently played some hooky: no official record of his Alabama service has ever surfaced."

Notice they didn't qualify playing hooky as allegedly, or is accused of or something? This is HUGE. They are say APPARENTLY!! They are assuming it as a fact! This is a pretty big development of the usage of this issue in a mainstream source. Wow!

[Octafish]

20. Next up: Where's James R Bath?

Mebbe TIME will want to ask Mr. William White?

Bush Said Friend's Arbusto Investment Was His Own, Not Saudi Money

Friend "Declined To Comment For The Record"

by Jerry Urban
The Houston Chronicle
June 4, 1992

"Federal authorities are investigating the activities of a Houston businessman -- a past investor in companies controlled by a son of President Bush -- who has been accused of illegally representing Saudi interests in the United States.

The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network -- known as FinCEN -- and the FBI are reviewing accusations that entrepreneur James R. Bath guided money to Houston from Saudi investors who wanted to influence U.S. policy under the Reagan and Bush administrations, sources close to the investigations say. FinCEN, a division of the U.S. Department of Treasury, investigates money laundering. Special agents and analysts from various law enforcement agencies, including the Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. Customs Service, are assigned to work with the FinCEN staff.

"The federal review stems in part from court documents obtained through litigation by Bill White, a former real estate business associate of Bath. White contends the documents indicate that the Saudis were using Bath and their huge financial resources to influence U.S. policy.

Such representation by Bath would require that he be registered as a foreign agent with the U.S. Department of Justice. In general, people required by law to be registered are those who represent a foreign entity seeking to influence governmental action or policy. An Annapolis graduate and former Navy fighter pilot, White, 46, claims that Bath and the judicial system, under the veil of national security, have blackballed him professionally and financially because he has refused to keep quiet about what he regards as a conspiracy to secretly funnel Saudi dollars to the United States. White became entangled in a series of lawsuits and countersuits with Bath, who for some six years has prevailed in the courts. White says the legal action has financially devasted him and Venturcorp Inc., the real estate development company in which he and Bath were partners.

"In sworn depositions, Bath said he represented four prominent Saudis as a trustee and that he would use his name on their investments. In return, he said, he would receive a 5 percent interest in their deals. Tax documents and personal financial records show that Bath personally had a 5 percent interest in Arbusto '79 Ltd., and Arbusto '80 Ltd., limited partnerships controlled by George W. Bush, President Bush's eldest son. Arbusto means bush in Spanish. Bath invested $50,000 in the limited partnerships, according to the documents. There is no available evidence to show whether the money came from Saudi interests.

CONTINUED...

http://www.unansweredquestions.org/timeline/1990s/houstonchronicle060492.html

[9215]

29. Here is some stuff on Bath, his marriage, lawsuits etc.

Some of it is old news.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6059&forum=DCForumID70&omm=1

No links, these are in a subscription news service:
Dallas Morning News Dec. 10 1990:
"Southwest Airport Services Inc. was paid 7,200 percent more than the government's original contract estimate between October 1986 and October 1988. One of Southwest Airport Services' owners is James R. Bath, who has connections to U.S. Sen. Lloyd Bentsen's son, Lan Bentsen, and to the President's son George W. Bush. Mr. Bath and the younger Bentsen have been business partners, but there is no indication that the Bentsens or the Bushes have financial ties to the firm. Mr. Bath declined to comment for the article...Pete Schmidt, an economic policy analyst with the Defense Budget Project, another nonprofit research organization in Washington, was skeptical. "I don't want to say it sounds fishy; it's just hard to understand how the Defense Department could consistently underestimate by so much,' Mr. Schmidt said."
I'm sure you have this:
Wall Street Journal Dec. 6 1991:
"Among George W.'s investors was James R. Bath, a Houston aircraft broker who had a flourishing aviation business with sheiks of the Saudi peninsula. Mr. Bath owned a piece of a Houston bank in which Mr. Pharaon, the BCCI front man, had been a controlling shareholder. Mr. Bath also invested money in the U.S. for Mr. bin-Mahfouz, the Saudi banker who would go on to become a leading shareholder in BCCI. According to Mr. Bath's personal financial statements, produced in unrelated litigation, Mr. Bath invested $50,000 with George W. Bush, becoming a 5% partner in Arbusto. Mr. Bush says he was aware Mr. Bath was representing Saudi investors but that at the time "had never heard of BCCI."
Houston Chronicle June 4 1992:
"Federal authorities are investigating the activities of a Houston businessman -- a past investor in companies controlled by a son of President Bush -- who has been accused of illegally representing Saudi interests in the United States. The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network -- known as FinCEN -- and the FBI are reviewing accusations that entrepreneur James R. Bath guided money to Houston from Saudi investors who wanted to influence U.S. policy under the Reagan and Bush administrations, sources close to the investigations say. FinCEN, a division of the U.S. Department of Treasury, investigates money laundering. Special agents and analysts from various law enforcement agencies, including the Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. Customs Service, are assigned to work with the FinCEN staff. The federal review stems in part from court documents obtained through litigation by Bill White, a former real estate business associate of Bath. White contends the documents indicate that the Saudis were using Bath and their huge financial resources to influence U.S. policy. Such representation by Bath would require that he be registered as a foreign agent with the U.S. Department of Justice. In general, people required by law to be registered are those who represent a foreign entity seeking to influence governmental action or policy.
An Annapolis graduate and former Navy fighter pilot, White, 46, claims that Bath and the judicial system, under the veil of national security, have blackballed him professionally and financially because he has refused to keep quiet about what he regards as a conspiracy to secretly funnel Saudi dollars to the United States. White became entangled in a series of lawsuits and countersuits with Bath, who for some six years has prevailed in the courts. White says the legal action has financially devasted him and Venturcorp Inc., the real estate development company in which he and Bath were partners. In sworn depositions, Bath said he represented four prominent Saudis as a trustee and that he would use his name on their investments. In return, he said, he would receive a 5 percent interest in their deals.
(George W.)Bush said that to his knowledge, Bath's investment was from personal funds, and no Saudi money was invested in Arbusto. Bath, 55, a former U.S. Air Force pilot, declined to comment for the record. Spokesmen for FinCEN and the FBI also declined to comment. According to a 1976 trust agreement, drawn shortly after Bush was appointed director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Saudi Sheik Salem M. Binladen appointed Bath as his business representative in Houston. Binladen, along with his brothers, owns Binladen Brothers Construction, one of the largest construction companies in the Middle East. According to White, Bath told him that he had assisted the CIA in a liaison role with Saudi Arabia since 1976. Bath has previously denied having worked for the CIA. In a sworn deposition, Bath said he was the sole director of Skyway Aircraft Leasing Ltd., a company that a court document shows is owned by Khaled bin Mahfouz. Bin Mahfouz had been a major shareholder in the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, a banking empire that has been accused of money laundering and of using Mideast oil money to seek ties to political leaders in several countries. Mahfouz and his family own the National Commercial Bank of Saudi Arabia. In 1990, Bath bought the Express Auto Park garage at Hobby Airport for $8.4 million, which included a $1.4 million loan provided by Mahfouz, according to transaction documents. Bath received a 5 percent interest in the companies that own and operate Houston Gulf Airport after purchasing it on behalf of Binladen in 1977. After Binladen died in 1988, his interests in the airport were taken over by Mahfouz, according to court documents.
Houston Chronicle Sept 10 1994
A key figure in the world's largest banking scandal is participating in an attempt to take control of a major city of Houston aviation contractor, according to a lawsuit filed in federal court here. National Commercial Bank-Jeddah, Saudi Arabia (NCB), which is controlled by the family of Sheik Khalid Bin Mahfouz, has claimed rights to 90 percent of the outstanding shares of Southwest Airport Services, according to documents accompanying the lawsuit filed by Sandra C. Bath, president of Southwest Airport Services.
Southwest Airport Services provides fuel and other services for general aviation aircraft at the city-owned Ellington Field. The company also provides fuel to NASA and transient military aircraft, and to Air Force One, the president's plane, when it comes to Houston. Bath filed the lawsuit against the bank and her former husband, James R. Bath, a local entrepreneur.
""Mr. Mahfouz, as owner of National Commercial Bank, hopes to accommodate Mr. Bath's desire to assume control of Southwest Airport Services Inc., and treat it as his personal piggy-bank as he has done over the preceding several years,'' says the lawsuit."
The Times of India Sept 25 2001
(This is a bit off topic but interesting. News you don't find in the USA)
"LONDON: A 30-year-old photograph of Osama bin Laden, wearing purple flared trousers, a skinny-rib jumper and leaning against a pink Cadillac, that enduring symbol of America, is being hawked around by a Swedish picture agency at 1,000 pounds a copy. Meanwhile, Western security agencies are reported to believe that one of the hijackers who flew into the World Trade Centre (WTC) was part of the team that seized Indian Airlines flight IC 814 from Kathmandu, and took it to Kandahar in 1999.
The paper said Mughniyeh's whereabouts are likely to be raised with the Iranian government by British foreign secretary Jack Straw during his ongoing visit to Teheran. Mughniyeh, who has proven expertise in hijackings, is especially prone to using pocket knives and scissors in hijacks, rather than guns. The paper recalled that the Indian Airlines hijack was accomplished by a similarly-armed gang, who stabbed 25-year-old Rupin Katiyal, while other passengers were ordered to watch him bleed to death. It said that intelligence officers discerned the same pattern in the American hijackings, with a stewardess and a business-class passenger being stabbed on the flight that crashed in rural Pennsylvania. The other passengers were told to keep watching.
Investigators say Mughniyeh is linked to Bin Laden's Al-Qaeda network, through the leader of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Dr Ayman al-Zawahiri, who is known to be close to Bin Laden. But even as intelligence agencies investigate the extent of Bin Laden's links with terrorist outfits around the world, the West is digesting quite a different image of the young boy through a family photograph, taken in the Swedish town of Falun in the summer of 1971. The photograph, which appeared in several British tabloids on Monday, accompanies media revelations that not only was the young Bin Laden fairly Westernised before he embraced Islamist radicalism, he also had a close family link with American President George W. Bush. The paper said that Salem, who died in a plane crash in 1983, became Bush's business partner through James Bath, a close friend of the future American president.
Salem, says the paper, appointed Bath as his representative in Houston, Texas. It was Bath who invested 50,000 dollars in BushAes company and also bought Houston Gulf Airport on behalf of Osama's elder brother. The paper said a White House spokesman was unavailable for comment on the subject on Sunday night. The Swedish owner of the hotel Osama Bin Laden stayed at all those years ago, is quoted to say "they (Osama and Salem) were such nice boys, beautiful boys, so elegantly dressed. Everybody loved them". She added that the innocent young Osama often played with her two sons."
The Wall Street Journal, Sept 28 1999:
"Mr. Bath's interesting connections to Saudi Arabia go back to at least 1976. It was then, according to a report in the Houston Chronicle, that Salem bin Laden, heir to one of the largest building companies in the Middle East, signed a trust agreement appointing Mr. Bath his Houston representative. (Salem bin Laden's half-brother, Osama bin Laden, has in recent years gained world-wide notoriety as a funder of fundamentalist terrorism, though he has reportedly broken with his family in Saudi Arabia). Court documents show that Mr. Bath purchased an airfield in south Texas, Houston Gulf Airport, in 1978 on behalf of Salem bin Laden. Mr. bin Laden died in a plane crash near San Antonio in 1988, and his interest in the airfield passed to Mr. bin Mahfouz, according to the Chronicle. Mr. Bath later founded Southwest Airport Services to manage Houston Gulf Airport and also to provide fueling service at another Houston-area airport, Ellington Field, where the company fueled military aircraft. Mr. Bath also was the president of Skyway Aircraft Leasing Ltd., a Cayman Islands-registered company that acted as a supplier of large passenger and cargo jets. According to a court document cited by the Houston Chronicle, and to someone familiar with Skyway's operation who spoke recently to the Journal, the true owner was Mr. bin Mahfouz. Mr. Bath did not respond to requests for an interview.
Questioned by the Houston Post in 1990, Mr. Bush said he had "never done any business" with Mr. Bath, but that Mr. Bath was "a lot of fun." Last month, Ms. Hughes, the Bush spokeswoman, said that other than the Arbusto investment, "Gov. Bush did not have any other financial dealings with Mr. Bath." She said Gov. Bush has seen Mr. Bath once or twice at social events over the past six years. A review of the Bush record as governor finds few traces of the past financial connections reviewed above. The one exception might be the January appointment of Kem Thompson Frost, a lawyer who has represented Mr. Bath, to the Texas 14th Court of Appeals. Ms. Frost's law firm, Winstead, Sechrest & Minick, has contributed to Mr. Bush's gubernatorial and presidential campaigns an amount that "exceeds $50,000," according to Texans for Public Justice, a campaign-finance monitor. In a brief telephone interview, Judge Frost said her work for Mr. Bath "ended in the early 1990s." She added that she had "never met Gov. Bush, never discussed Mr. Bath with any of his representatives, and filled out a standard judicial application."
If he wins the presidency, Mr. Bush would have great direct and indirect influence over issues of more moment to his past associates -- such as relations with Saudi Arabia. Issues of law enforcement also are particularly sensitive, as we've seen in the Clinton administration. Mr. bin Mahfouz has never been explicitly banned from U.S. banking, for example, and has vigorously tried to rehabilitate his reputation -- at one point enlisting the aid of Harvard Law Prof. Laurence Tribe to write a 38-page report denouncing BCCI prosecutors for "scapegoating" the Saudi banker. More recently, Mr. bin Mahfouz was ousted as head of National Commercial Bank in a murky power play reportedly engineered by the Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency. A family representative says Mr. bin Mahfouz then confined himself to a military hospital for treatment of drug abuse; his wife and sons still maintain a substantial stake in the bank.
Any president has to balance his public duties with his inevitable private associations. Mr. Bush has collected a rather rich assortment of connections in his career as the son of a man who was president, vice president and director of the Central Intelligence Agency. His personal financial position seems secure, thanks in no small way to friends of his father. This is of course no disqualification from serving as president. Indeed, a charitable voter might consider it a plus, on the assumption that the experience has taught him some lessons and he has learned something about when to keep a healthy distance.

Washington Post Sept 26 2001:
"* The White House is vehemently denying recent reports by various foreign news outlets that Saudi construction mogul Salem bin Laden, the eldest brother of Osama bin Laden, was in the late 1970s an early investor -- to the tune of $50,000 -- in then-oilman George W. Bush's Arbusto Energy Co. A presidential spokesman told us yesterday that Bush's pal James Bath, identified by these reports as Salem bin Laden's Houston business rep, put his own money into Arbusto. The elder bin Laden died in 1988, and our attempts to reach Bath were unsuccessful yesterday.
Sunday Herald Oct 7 2001
"Bush's lifelong friend James Bath acted as a representative in Texas for Osama's older brother, Salem, between 1976 and 1988. Bath bought real estate for the family, including Houston Gulf Airport.)Other companies and organisations connected to the Binladin Group family business include General Electric - the most valuable US company - and Citigroup, the biggest US bank, as well as Motorola, Quaker, Nortel, Unilever, Cadbury Schweppes and the investment bank ABN Amro. Judicial Watch, the Washington DC legal watchdog, said any company dealing with the Binladin Group was "disloyal to the US". The UK mobile phone group, Multitone, suspended business with the Binladin Group immediately after the September 11 attacks.)Then there are the academic institutions linked to the family. Dale Eickelman is the current bin Laden visiting fellow at Oxford University's Centre for Islamic Studies, which is financed to the tune of $150,000 ((pounds) 100,000) by Osama's family. Harvard University has fellowships endowed by the family worth $2m ((pounds) 1.35m), and Tufts University in America received $300,000 ((pounds) 200,000) from the bin Ladens.))The irony of the bin Laden network is hard to miss. A few years ago, when Saudi Arabia was in fear of attacks on its soil by al-Qaeda, signs outside Prince Sultan Air Base, where US service personnel are stationed, read: "Security upgrades by Binladin Group". The same signs were in Aden last year when FBI agents arrived to investigate the bombing of the USS Cole. The bin Ladens, it seems, are on both sides of the terrorist war. He blows things up and his family rebuild them.)"
The Plain Dealer Nov 11 2001
"President George W. Bush himself has been a beneficiary of Carlyle's largesse. In 1990, before the younger Bush ran for governor of Texas, Carlyle put him on the board of directors of its subsidiary Caterair, an airline catering company. The younger Bush also had a tenuous connection to the bin Laden family. In 1979, James Bath, a close friend, gave Bush $50,000 for a 5 percent stake in Arbusto Energy, Bush's first business. Bath was the U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, one of Osama's brothers, who headed the family's business enterprises. It has been speculated that Bath invested the bin Ladens' money, but the White House recently denied this, saying Bath invested his own money. As governor, Bush appointed the board that managed the Texas teachers pension fund. Last November, the board voted to invest $100 million in Carlyle. The University of Texas has invested $15.6 million in funds managed by the Carlyle Group."

[Octafish]

30. Good times, that.

Better times, ahead, 9215 -- once these traitors are charged, rounded up, tried, and imprisoned.



"Which do I look better in, Chimpy?
The all-orange or the black-n-white stripes?"

"Shhh, Laura! Don't you ever mention that name, agin!"

[9215]

34. Methinks the wheels are coming

off this war wagon, but its hard to gauge the intrinsic strength of the BFEE. That interview Bush had on MTP gives me the impression he doesn't have any intention of letting the vote decide who rules the roost.

But he also seems to be losing it and his cabal seem to find it neccessary to reassure the public whenever possible of how "right" they are. For the first time it appears that Bush is really out of touch with the public if he ever was in touch with them.

[Octafish]

36. The Pentagon, Department of State, and AFSCME know...

... -- as does every good man and woman in government service -- that the BFEE is a treasonous bunch. These good people in government service will not let the BFEE get away with it. That's why I'm not afraid of any crook or gang -- even those in the White House.

[9215]

61. I think the tide started to turn with Wilson/Plame. This

is treason way beyond Watergate, or Iran Contra. It strikes at the very heart of national security: the operatives in the field, doing a dangerous job and now having to worry about being victims of political chicanery in Washington is a heavy blow on morale. This, unlike the other scandals is a direct threat to our survival as a nation if it is allowed to go unchecked.

Odd as it may sound I think the CIA should never have been born. It became a power unto itself unchecked by the democratic process and thereby subversive of it. I think it would have kept on going if it hadn't been for the Internet that formed a kind of "de-centralized intelligence agency" to act as a counterpoint.

[Octafish]

63. Agree 100 percent. Internet saved Democracy.

Agree 100 percent. Bush and Rove played politics with national security. In outing Plame, they destroyed her network, which was charged with fighting nuclear proliferation, among other things. In addition to risking the lives of our agents in the field, our nation is at an increased risk from WMD. And you know what? That's exactly what Smirk & Sneer want. That way they can prop up a new enemy to keep the people occupied...

[hlthe2b]

3. Did you see Time cover: ""Does Bush have a Credibility Gap?!""

[DU9598]

6. Poll too

Please DU the poll on the page.

[Cooley Hurd]

23. 4018 Respondents: 89.6% say Yes, 10.4% say No...

I know it's only an online poll, but "wow!"

[aquart]

42. Yes 93.8 No 6.2 20,701 respondents.

Wow! indeed.

[eleny]

52. 95.4% Yipes!

n/t

[blm]

57. Double that Yipes.

and add a YAY!!!!

[rocktivity]

7. Yes, Bush does have a credibility gap

It's between his upper and lower lips.


rocknation

[ConsAreLiars]

10. Can you say "two-faced"?

The cover sure does.

[Beetwasher]

11. That Cover is A Beautiful Thing

How sweet it is! Now if they would just come right out and say LIAR!

[Octafish]

18. Beautiful.

"Credibility Gap" is a term from the Nixon Era. When it was trotted out, the powers-that-be had long since stopped wondering about more than the truthfullness of the C-in-C. They had become worried about the value of their financial portfolios.

Seems that Bush is toast.

[DU9598]

4. About "time"

Actually 4 years too late.

[Octafish]

21. There's no "Statute of Limitations" for Treason.

Check out:

Why would Osama bin Laden want to kill Dubya, his former business partner?

By James Hatfield
 
Editor's note: In light of last week's horrific events and the Bush administration's reaction to them, we are reprising the following from the last column Jim Hatfield wrote for Online Journal prior to his tragic death on July 18:

July 3, 2001—There may be fireworks in Genoa, Italy, this month, too.

A plot by Saudi master terrorist, Osama bin Laden, to assassinate Dubya during the July 20 economic summit of world leaders, was uncovered after dozens of suspected Islamic militants linked to bin Laden's international terror network were arrested in Frankfurt, Germany, and Milan, Italy, in April.

German intelligence services have stated that bin Laden is covertly financing neo-Nazi skinhead groups throughout Europe to launch another terrorist attack at a high-profile American target—his first since the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen last October.

According to counter-terrorism experts quoted in Germany's largest newspaper, the attack on Dubya might be a James Bond-like aerial strike in the form of remote-controlled airplanes packed with plastic explosives.

Why would Osama bi Laden want to kill, Dubya, his former business partner?

CONTINUED...

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Hatfield-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html

[Liberal_Andy]

5. I'm normally don't fault those who didn't go to 'nam,...except for...

the ones who start illegal wars, then stuff a sock in their pants and prance around on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

Is that so wrong?

[Octafish]

19. You make an excellent point.

I don't want the C-in-C to be a draft-dodger. Whether a man or woman needs to have served in the armed forces is another matter. Personally, I don't believe it should matter. However, if the C-in-C must call on the armed forces to sacrifice blood, it is essential that he or she must never have run away from.

[aquart]

43. It takes courage not to follow the herd.

The men who stood beside me protesting VietNam were World War II vets. Their sons marched beside them, young men who used any means necessary not to kill strangers who had never harmed us.

Oh, golly, who would I trust first with the lives of a generation of Americans? One who always did what everyone else did, or one who valued his own and others' lives so much he took the risk of the FBI jacket, the possibility of jail...I knew one boy who left his family and his country rather than die for nothing but the testicles of old men.

Don't you dare impugn the courage of those young men to me. If they had been that age during Pearl Harbor, they would have done as their fathers did and enlisted the next day.

There is a difference between defending your nation and attacking someone else's.

My vote to the man who knows that difference.

[Octafish]

45. To paraphrase Ali, "I got nothing against no Vietcong."

I, too, remember those days. Several of those I know who decided to opt out were made aware of what was was going on by those whose brothers had died in southeast Asia. I respect them for their decision. None are lesser in my eyes. I am a Democrat and believe all people are equal, even those who live in another country.

Nevertheless, none of the men I know who dodged the draft are running for President. I don't believe the majority of men and women in uniform appreciate serving under someone who ran when called. Most of their families, I believe, wouldn't support such a person in an election, either. The main thing is, I don't trust a man who asks another to do something he wouldn't do himself.

[BlueEyedSon]

8. Does Bush Have a Credibility Problem? 82% "yes"

uh oh

[rugger]

9. The Alabama AWOL isn't the worst part, the whole NG thing is.

I think some dems should have the guts to stand up and call a spade a spade. I get tired of the Republicans using the tired "served honorably in the National Guard" mantra. yeah right. everyone knows what Bush did, similar to Dan Quayle. They used their polirtical clout to avoid going to Vietnam, PERIOD. Bush rose to the top of the line to enlist in the National Guard, due to daddy's clout. I bet Clinton, or any other average person couldn't have done likewise. It is cowardice, plain and simple, any rich kid who joined the NG during Vietnam knew what the hell they were doing.

National Guarsmen of today are not of the same ilk as the dreaft dodgers of Vietnam (I would have dodged the draft too during Vietnam). But then, to be a war mongering hawk is the height of hyprociscy.

[Octafish]

17. Hit the draft-dodger on the head.

Well stated. The guy's a son of privilege whose Poppy pulled strings to get him to the top of the waiting list.

What ticks me off: This is the same smirking cretin who told Russert today that he didn't want to go to Vietnam because it was a "political war." Sorry I don't have the exact quote, as the MSRNC page is out from my browser.

Anyways, AWOL should be the least of the Little Turd from Crawford's worries. If he's beaten in November, the new Attorney General won't be named Ashcroft. Didn't he say if you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to fear from the police?

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, rugger!

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Bush* said he wouldn't have gone to Viet Nam

because it was a War run by politicians. He said that to Tim Russert on MTP. As I understand it, Viet Nam was a police action, is that correct? Had Viet Nam officially been declared a war, Bush* having been awol from the TANG would have resulted in him being placed into an active branch of the military immediately. Is that correct? On his application for the TANG didn't he put a check in the NO box which asked him if he was willing to go to Viet Nam? I read an article by a Ft. Worth reporter who interview Bush* before he ran for President in which Bush* stated that Viet Nam was never an option for him. He said in that interview that it was either Canada or the TANG for him. Sounded like he had a plan to run if need be.

For the record, how many families of fallen soldiers has Bush* hugged? Didn't he say that he would be the one too do that? How many military funerals has he attended? Time of your life, eh George?

[shindig]

12. let's not forget to thank Michael Moore and Wes Clark

for allowing this to issue to become "mainstream." Clark was crucified for "not distancing himself" from Moore over this, remember? Would have been easier to have just given in and expressed a little outrage, since everyone was demanding it. I wonder how John Kerry would have answered the same question during that debate? Somehow I believe he would have felt it expedient to distance himself. Yet Kerry is in the lead and Clark is hanging on for dear life. What is wrong this picture? Who'is really the courageous one here? Who has the guts to do what it will take to destroy Bush? Who gets less credit for having WINNING political instincts than he deserves? To me, it's Wes Clark, hands down!

[lolly]

14. "Backfire" spin

Note that the article spins it as backfiring on the Democrats.

The Repub. word is that criticizing AWOL for going AWOL is the same thing as dissing all National Guardsmen. Then they point to all the guardsmen who have died so far in Iraq, and make it sound as if Kerry is spitting on their graves.

Article also claims Kerry is backpedalling--I hope this isn't true.

This is what Gore and Dukakis always did--instead of calling the Republicans on their ridiculous spin, they did exactly what the Repubs scripted for them. They issued apologies and backpedalled.

[rocktivity]

50. We owe Peter Jennings a debt of gratitude also

Originally posted by Shindig:
Clark was crucified for "not distancing himself" from Moore over this, remember? Would have been easier to have just given in and expressed a little outrage, since everyone was demanding it...I believe (Kerry) would have felt it expedient to distance himself. Yet Kerry is in the lead and Clark is hanging on for dear life.

Jennings was the one who attempted the crucifixion, and his mission was not to elict humiliation from Clark, not outrage. But Clark didn't back down, the story blossomed, Jennings ended up looking petty and stupid--and the main reason why Clark is "hanging on for dear life" is because he's gotten zero media coverage ever since.


rocknation

[EPUfan]

13. About time!

Great! I just hope that this issue doesn't get forgotten in November.

[Octafish]

16. Hey, EPUfan!

Somehow I don't think people will forget.



Mission Accomplished

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, EPUfan!

[EPUfan]

54. Thank you Octafish

It's good to be here! I have been hanging out on a Civil War message board, one of my many passions, but it is loaded with right wing nazis, so it is good to be among like minded people for a chnage!

[11 Bravo]

55. Welcome to DU EPUfan!

You're going to love it here.

[XanaDUer]

15. Kick for a great story!

:kick:

[Octafish]

64. Thanks, LC! Here's a kick up for Bush TANG buddy, James R Bath...

Check out the similar family traits between the Bushes and the bin Ladens (for whom Bath worked).

Thanks to a couple of DUers: From 9215's link above, which was from Bev Harris' Lexis-Nexis abstracts...

Sunday Herald Oct 7 2001

"Bush's lifelong friend James Bath acted as a representative in Texas for Osama's older brother, Salem, between 1976 and 1988. Bath bought real estate for the family, including Houston Gulf Airport.)Other companies and organisations connected to the Binladin Group family business include General Electric - the most valuable US company - and Citigroup, the biggest US bank, as well as Motorola, Quaker, Nortel, Unilever, Cadbury Schweppes and the investment bank ABN Amro. Judicial Watch, the Washington DC legal watchdog, said any company dealing with the Binladin Group was "disloyal to the US". The UK mobile phone group, Multitone, suspended business with the Binladin Group immediately after the September 11 attacks.)Then there are the academic institutions linked to the family. Dale Eickelman is the current bin Laden visiting fellow at Oxford University's Centre for Islamic Studies, which is financed to the tune of $150,000 ((pounds) 100,000) by Osama's family. Harvard University has fellowships endowed by the family worth $2m ((pounds) 1.35m), and Tufts University in America received $300,000 ((pounds) 200,000) from the bin Ladens.))The irony of the bin Laden network is hard to miss. A few years ago, when Saudi Arabia was in fear of attacks on its soil by al-Qaeda, signs outside Prince Sultan Air Base, where US service personnel are stationed, read: "Security upgrades by Binladin Group". The same signs were in Aden last year when FBI agents arrived to investigate the bombing of the USS Cole. The bin Ladens, it seems, are on both sides of the terrorist war. He blows things up and his family rebuild them.)"

[pippin]

22. Question from a military ignoramus

When does being AWOL become desertion? I gather that the penalty for AWOl is different from that which is given to someone who deserts?

[mike1963]

33. To make it short, AWOL means "Absent Without Leave"...

In the regular military, it generally means that someone is away from duty without a grant of leave (vacation, essentially) One can get a 'leave' of anything from 1 day to many more, depending on how many he/she has accrued (30 days per year is the normal allowable.) So if someone gets 15 days, for example, they have to be back in, well, 15 days, etc. If they have not returned within 30 days after the end of the leave, they are technically 'deserted' unless there has been some mutually understood/permitted extenuating circumstance.

The National Guard operates a bit differently since members are not on Federal Active Duty unless and until they are formally 'activated' (such as many have been for the Iraq occupation recently.)

In Chimpy's case, the UCMJ was not really the operative venue, rather the rules of the Texas (and presumably Alabama) Guard would have taken precedence. I had some links but they have got buried somewhere...someone will probably point you to the right places.

[seemslikeadream]

24. Did Bush drop out of the National Guard to avoid drug testing?

The young pilot walked away from his commitment in 1972 - the same year the U.S. military implemented random drug tests.

One of the persistent riddles surrounding President Bush's disappearance from the Texas National Guard during 1972 and 1973 is the question of why he walked away. Bush was a fully trained pilot who had undergone a rigorous two-yer flight training program that cost the Pentagon nearly $i million. And he has told reporters how important it was to follow in his father's footsteps and to become a fighter pilot. Yet in April 1972, George Bush climbed out of a military cockpit for the last timve. He still had two more years to serve, but Bush's own discharge papers suggest he may have walked away from the Guard for good.

... Which is where Air Force Regulation 160-23, also known as the Medical Service Drug Abuse Testing Program, comes in. The new drug-testing effort was officially launched by the Air Force on April 21, following a Jan. 11, 1972, directive issued by the Department of Defense. That initiative, in response to increased drug use among soldiers in Vietnam, instructed the military branches to "establish the requirment for a systematic drug abuse testing program of all military personnel on active duty, effective 1 July 1972."

...White House officials insist that if Bush missed any weekend Guard drills in 1972, he made up for them during the summer of 1973. If this is true, he would have been vulnerable to random drug tests during his makeup days. But again, Bush's own discharge papers fail to conclusively back up his claim that he performed Guard service in 1973.

...Also, if Bush had served in 1973, there would have to be an Officer Effectiveness Rating for that year in his military file. There is not.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/06/drugs/

[drdigi420]

25. and yet he sends his DEA into california

to harrass people using LEGAL (under cali law) medical marijuana

he would attack sick people for self-medicating (wonder if the BFEE's ties to Eli Lilly, makers of Prozac and Marinol has anything to do with that?)

and yet...

he couldnt even stop cocaine long enough to pass a drug test?

lets be real, cocaine only takes about 2-3 days to be undetectable. drug testing is ALL about marijuana, the only drug that can be detected for long enough to make urine testing an effective way of ensuring a person uses harder drugs than pot

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Thanks!

The Guard might decide to go AWOL too like their boss man, and you couldn't blame them!

[seemslikeadream]

28. Or maybe take some time off to work on a campaign

or get out early so to go to business school. :mad:

[ngGale]

31. The National Guard would not even now..

without a war, allow someone to get off duty to campaign. Even with the rich daddy syndrome, his records make no sense. Somethings wrong and in this election it does count.

[Octafish]

37. There's what, 100,000 guardsmen and reservists in Iraq right now?

What percentage would rather be home, helping out on somebody's campaign? 99 percent? 100?

The feelings were summed up well the other day by one returning reservist, who said: "I would vote for the rotting carcass of a cold, dead rat before I'd ever vote for George W Bush."

[aeon flux]

32. How's this for a new Demo talking point?

Where was the Commander-in-chief on 9/11 when the country needed him at a critical moment when the first plane struck the trade towers?

Sitting on his butt in a Florida classroom reading goat stories to 3rd graders. Posing for yet another photo-op. Is this what we hired him to do? No. On Septmebr 11, 2001, Dubya was AWOL and derelict of his duties as the chief commander of our defensive forces, just as he was AWOL from the TANG in 72-73. He is incompetent and unfit for the job. Georgie is better at reciting nursery rhymes than he is at defending the nation!

[Taeger]

60. Don't forget

Don't forget that they tried to spin this as well. They made it out like the president was informed of the incident when the Secret Service agent whispered in his ear. Nope that was information about the SECOND WTC impact.

BushCo was informed of incidents BEFORE they left the hotel that morning. Did they scramble jets ... NO. Did they do ANYTHING ... NO. Bush went to his photo-op instead of defending the nation.

His look was that of Don Corleone after being told that the hits had been carried out per instruction. Lucky for John Ashcroft that he HEEDED warnings and stopped flying commercial aircrafts.

In my humble opinion, Bush just plain didn't care. He was downright gleeful in his "trifecta" blurb. The nation was attacked so he can do whatever he likes now.

One can only wonder how much work was done on his THIRTY DAY "working vacation" down in Crawford. I seriously doubt he does any work even when he's in Washington. But if they had taken ANY warnings seriously, perhaps they would have thwarted the attacks. Perhaps if they had PUBLISHED some of their intelligence to the FBI, they would have put some VERY OBVIOUS points together. Perhaps if they didn't insist on strict political discipline for EVERYTHING, the agencies would have been able to piece things together WITHOUT Prince George's permission.

[OneTwentyoNine]

35. Newsweek should reprint the AWOL story they did in 2000

They had Bush nailed to the floorboards almost four years ago but it blew over. Time to redo the story Newsweek!

David

[Stephanie]

38. Here's Dana Milbank on the MTP interview

"Bush's promise to release all of his military files, including pay stubs and tax records, has the potential to resolve the long debate over Bush's service from May 1972 to May 1973. No records have been found showing he performed his duties during that period, but he received an honorable discharge, indicating that he had served properly.


Experts in such matters have said payroll records and Bush's annual retirement "point summary" from the time -- neither of which has been uncovered -- should demonstrate definitively how often Bush participated in drills. Such records, unless they have been purged, should exist on microfiche in St. Louis or Denver.


Bush said it was unlikely those records still exist. Asked whether he would allow their release, he replied: "Yeah, if we still have them. But, you know, the records are kept in Colorado, as I understand, and they scoured the records." Bush also said his campaign had authorized the release of such information in the 2000 campaign, but no such information has been released. A spokeswoman, Claire Buchan, said yesterday that all existing records, including pay stubs and retirement points, had already been made available."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20040209/ts_washpost/a23494_2004feb8&cid=1802&ncid=1480

[Bozvotros]

39. So. His excuse is essentially "the dog ate my homework."

Ain't it great when the groan-ups are in charge?

And Time calls it "Playing hooky." Okay. All you folks in the Guard....take off whenever you want. There is no AWOL in the Guard, apparently or if there is its no big deal and there are no consequences and you can still get your honorable discharge.

Hell, while you're at it, just jump to the head of the waiting lists, take an undeserved fast track to officer's school, waste your expensive flight training, ignore requirements to take physicals etc, blow off a year or two and then ask for an early release. Everybody's doing it.

edited for grammar

[DrBB]

40. "they scoured the records"

"Scoured" 'em, huh dubya, is that what they did. Scoured, purged, erased, whited out. It's all good.

Funny how he just comes right out and says it. A Bush family trait. If we'd just take them at their word, the US and the world would be spared a whole lotta misery.

[blm]

58. Scoured, scrubbed, same thing.

.

[aquart]

44. Okay, that's just funny. He KNOWS who "scoured" the records.

It's amazing how hard it's going to be to find them.

[DrBB]

41. WTF? He "did well on an officer-qualification test"???

Um, he scored the absolute minimum for flight-school acceptance. A 25, I believe. That's "doing well"? No, I don't think so.

In grad school we had a saying, "The minimum wouldn't be the minimum if it wasn't enough." A whole philosophy of life for our W there. But at a time when hundreds were being turned away, I don't think a 25 would have gotten any normal person in the door, much less qualified as "he did well."

Time just being "even-handed," a course. Don't want to point out any actual facts. Main thing is to let "both sides of the story" have their say. Gotta have a quote from the flat-earthers, else it's not Fair 'n' Balanced.

[Octafish]

46. That's code for "Daddy was CIA in Dallas on 22 November 1963."

As you know, Doctor, getting in one's side of the story is essential to counteracting the truth in real time and long-term. One odd word serves to keep open an avenue of plausible deniability through which the average mind can allow a Bush to walk. Plust, getting in at the beginning makes it easier to retain (as well as convert) the various mind masses through selective repetitions of various messages later.

Want a parallel? Think "swamp gas." I fear by TIME floating the story now, it allows them to get something much worse by the radar. My guess would be what Conescenda had to say to the 9-11 commission.

[wal]

47. OCTAFISH

MATE, A WEEK (?) OR SO AGO YOU POSTED AN EXCELLENT ARTICLE ON JOHN KERRY, ALONG WITH SEVERAL SITES TO VISIT TO GET THE FULL PICTURE.
AS I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POSTS UP TO SEND YOU A PRIVATE MAIL, COULD YOU
SEND IT TO ME,([e-mail]) OR POST IT AGAIN SOMEWHERE I MIGHT SEE IT?

BIG THANX COBBER, IN ADVANCE

[Octafish]

48. Hey, wal!

Was it this one?

Kerry can CLOBBER Bush!

And that's good enough reason for me to support the guy. Other Kerry supporters like the guy because he is a calm, tough thinker. Rove hates the guy because Kerry would beat George Bush like a cheap drum.

That's just my 2 cents. Most importantly: Please, add your thoughts why you support John Kerry for President.

Forgive the poor prose and obtuse linkage, but I've been up to my eight Octopus armpits in work of late. However, to get things going and to help others understand my perspective, I submit the following:

Go John Kerry!

1. John Kerry wants to take out Bush Organized Crime Family as much as I do, which is almost as much as ANYONE who can remember back to November 22, 1963.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

http://www.american-buddha.com/mystery.death.htm


2. Kerry is able to do it, willing to do it and in a position to do it. He's also said he's going to go after them, saying he will appoint an HONEST ATTORNEY GENERAL. Kenny Boy Lay is going to look good in prison jumpsuit orange. So will George W. Bush.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...


3. Kerry has a track record of going after the BFEE — from BCCI to Iran-Contra to Ollie North & Contra Drug Running — while in the US Senate. He's the kind of President who would get to the bottom of 9-11, Plame-gate, the missing Pentagon trillions and all the rest the BFEE has committed. Then, Kerry would see these gangsters put in jail.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci /

http://www.conspire.com/drugscia2.html


4. From Day 1, Kerry would know what to do as President and as Commander-in-Chief. Remember, as far as combat goes: Kerry’s been-there, done-that. He received the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts for bravery in combat. Who better to lead the nation in an ever more perilous world?

http://www.twa800.com/news/kerry-9-11-01.htm

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1207a.html


5. Kerry’s the last real Liberal since Bobby Kennedy who has the “Credentials” needed to attract voters from the middle and, thus, win the Presidency. Who knows what he can do, given the chance, for our nation? From health care and jobs to public education and the state of our cities, JK knows what he's doing. Given the facts, I think the majority of all voters would feel the same way.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_0917a.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic...


My fave: GOOGLE Kerry + Ollie North and/or Iran-Contra and/or BCCI and/or CIA drugs and/or Adnan Khashoggi and you’ll see the guy is a fighter on the side of good. Toss in Richard Nixon and/or Charles Colson and/or James R Bath for info's sake. The facts also might convince you that Kerry is qualified to do an outstanding job as President.

Consider: As a Liberal Democrat, Kerry would use the office of President to make this a better country for ALL citizens, doing all possible to improve public education, make higher education accessible to all who want to go to college, improve the economy and protect the environment.

His entire career, Kerry has seen and demonstrated what government can do to protect the environment, improve the quality of life of all citizens, and make the country a better place through public service. Would that all so capable were so selfless. This world would be a far better place, too.

— Octafish

Here's the link to the rest of the stuff.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=185572

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, wal! Thanks for the kind words from Oz!

[proud patriot]

49. wheeeeeeeeeeeeee !

:bounce:

[Octafish]

53. My favorite graph...

...Still, I'd like to know who said this:

EXCERPT...

Kerry aides told TIME last week that they were worried their candidate had already come close to crossing the line. "There were a lot of people cringing around here when John let himself get engaged in this thing," said one. "It could backfire, no matter what the truth is." Yet Kerry's war record seems to be working for him. In the latest TIME/CNN poll, 60% of voters say John Kerry did his duty for the country during the Vietnam War, while only 39% make that same assertion for President Bush.

# # #

That's a wow!

[tom_paine]

51. Just imagine...ONLY FOUR YEARS LATE!

I miss having a Free Press.

[11 Bravo]

56. As always, you hit it right on the head.

n/t

[boobooday]

59. I saw this! Too good to be true!

THE MEDIA HAS DISCOVERED THE TRUTH????

Better late than never, although just barely.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

Jeanette