Well I received my final unemployment check today....

[dawgman]

I am now "other than employed" and my absence from the rolls of those receiving umemployment insurance payments will be noted as a positive thing by the pundits.

[lastknowngood]

1. yes it the words of the repugnant you have

"stopped looking for work" that is new speak for running out of benefits.

[elfin]

9. Not only that but they will assume

that you have entered the entrepreneurial ranks and are "consulting" - therefore really "employed", but not showing in the statistics as such. This means to them (and the media) that the unemployment figures are not as bad as they seem.

[tom_paine]

2. Sorry to hear that, dawgman

I hope your fortunes improve soon.

[MissB]

3. "All those who want work will have work"

That is what Bush has been saying for a good year or so. Everytime he talks about the economy, he says something to that effect. "We're going to cut taxes, stimulate the economy, and anyone who wants to find a job will have one". What an insult.

Must've been my local newspaper the other day that had an article about the Republicans' reluctance to extend unemployment benefits, since it would help prove that Bush's tax cuts aren't working.

I am truly sorry about your last check. I hope the economy picks up soon and you find a job.

[dawgman]

12. I have been applying to anywhere between 20 and 100 jobs

per week and I haven't found shit.

on edit: for the last forty-five weeks.

[MissB]

17. That truly sucks

Every time I hear Bush say "everyone who wants a job can have one" I think about the unemployed like you.

good luck to you.

[dawgman]

22. thank you for your concern as my Mexican buddies would say

"No me importa una chingatha."(sorry for any spanish speakers, I know I can't spell spanish.)

[Southsideirish]

34. Two degrees w/honors from U of Chicago - 2 yrs unemployed?

How can this be in the "greatest country on earth"?

[dawgman]

35. I feel ya. My dad went through two years of unemployment

during the first bushit admin. He had a masters in econ, BS in econ, Law degree, and an MPA.

[nostamj]

4. and i'll be applying for my first check

next week....

sorry to hear that. good luck.

how do we get the FULL UNemployment and UNDERemployment numbers out there??

the Dem candidate must make JOBS? a core plank in the platform.

[MissB]

7. Sorry to hear that, Nostamj

Good luck to you too.

[dawgman]

14. We don't. I don't think I would be possible to do anything but estimate

the number of underemployed. Unfortunately such a number wouldn't hold much water with the right.

[ewagner]

5. Sorry to hear that dawg.

I hope good fortune comes your way soon.

[ninkasi]

6. Good luck to you...

I hope you get a good job soon. This is really scary, what's happening to so many of us. We've got to get the little snot voted out of office before even more lives are destroyed.

[davsand]

8. I am one month away from that too.

I have one month till I am in that same boat. I'm gonna make it--but barely. People wonder why I hate this administration so much? Just look at that one fact.

Laura

[JanMichael]

10. That bites. Are you going to be ok?

Is there someone else working in your family?

[dawgman]

16. Wife is working and I have some general maintenance that I can do to make

some "extra" cash. We should make it but it will mean tightening the belt a few more notches.

[Carl Spackler]

11. OK, hit me over the head, but why is this Bush's fault

The economy goes up and down, technology has been displacing workers since the cotton mill, and sometimes we are the ones under the steamroller. I can participate in this forum because I was laid off from my employer of 17 years when they moved to Texas to escape taxes. I blame a lot of things, but not particularly the 3 1/2 year old iteration of the executive branch of government.

Iraq? Bush's fault. No progress on medical insurance? Bush's fault. Deficit spending? Bush's fault. The economy cycles down and India offers programmers for pennies a day? The way of all things.

[Robin Hood]

15. This economy is Bush's fault.

His tax dollars has made this recession. The tax cuts put little readily spent capital in the market place, because it is mostly tailored towards people who don't need it and therefore won't probably spend it. Where as if that tax structure were reversed the people that need that moeny to spend right away on rent, food clothing etc.. that money would enter the blood stream right away, rather than sit in a bank account or being funneled to Bush's campaign coffers.

Futhermore, Bush has had his whole presidency to do something about out sourcing american jobs but has done diddly squat. Why? Because he is in the pocket of these traitorous corporations. When will Bush and his supporters take responsibility for this Admin? It's not Clinton's fault, It's not Saddam's fault, It's not the CIA's fault, it's not Osama's fault, It is Bush's fault.

I am sick and tired of these school yard excuses! Where does the buck stop? I can't afford four more years of this immature crap.

[blurp]

41. Pumping money into the economic "blood stream" not necessarily

His tax dollars has made this recession. The tax cuts put little readily spent capital in the market place, because it is mostly tailored to wards people who don't need it and therefore won't probably spend it. Where as if that tax structure were reversed the people that need that money to spend right away on rent, food clothing etc.. that money would enter the blood stream right away, rather than sit in a bank account or being funneled to Bush's campaign coffers.

The trouble with your idea is that simply putting money into the economy doesn't necessarily create prosperity, otherwise, governments that have 500% inflation rates would be the most prosperous, but they are not. But that's exactly what they do, they put more money into the "blood stream" as you put it. It doesn't seem to work.

I think the better way to look at this is to focus on the behavior of employers. What motivates them to hire? What disincentives are there for employment?

It's difficult to see how a tax cut would make them less likely to employ people.

[dawgman]

45. You know my state just sold the farm trying to keep Boeing here.

With no assurances of how many jobs they would give us and no real indicators of how much value to the economy those jobs would have we just gave Boeing 3.2B in tax breaks and reformed our unemployment insurance policies. Here is some of what our state did;

BOEING INCENTIVES

Highlights of the state incentive package:


Tax breaks worth $3.2 billion over 20 years, only if Boeing builds the 7E7 in Washington, including a 40 percent cut in business-and-occupation taxes for aerospace concerns.

$15.5 million for a rail-barge dock at the Port of Everett, not specifically for Boeing but capable of handling oversize cargo, along with eased shoreline regulations for construction.

Reforms to the state unemployment and workers compensation systems.

Transportation reforms valued at $4 billion and financed, in part, by a 5 cents-per-gallon gas tax increase.

Unlimited tuition-setting authority for some colleges' graduate and non-resident students.


The first incentive, the tax breaks worth $3.2 billion over 20 years, amounts to $160,000 per YEAR per JOB. The transportation reforms worth an even bigger $4 billion, amount to an additional $4 million per job. If that cost is spread out over 20 years, it is $200,000 per YEAR per JOB. This money will come from drivers each time they put gas in their cars. These two "incentives" alone cost $360,000 per YEAR per JOB. This is for building a small portion of the 7E7 in Washington; most the plane in being built in other states and overseas.
http://binarycircumstance.typepad.com/bc_blog/2003/12/taxpayers_the_w.html

How much more incentive does business need. Looking for a link but before these breaks I don't think boeing paid ANY state taxes to begin with.

[blurp]

54. Important to distinguish between entitlements and burdens

I won't argue for some of the incentives that were given. I will only say I think it's important to distinguish between the handouts and the reduction in burdens.

Why is this? Well, if the alternative is Boeing leaving the state, then certainly the state is a winner if Boeing pays a reduced rate and stays. A full tax rate on nothing is less than a reduced rate on something. You get nothing if the tax burden makes that economic activity unprofitable.

Now, the handouts are another issue. At what point do they become handouts? What will Boeing put back into the system as a result of these things like the dock? I can't answer that.

[dawgman]

59. What has Boeing ever put back into the state? Threats, layoffs and

ultimatums. Traffic congestion and pollution. Strikes, stress and outsourcing. The latest estimate is that Boeing will take advantage of 3.2Billion in tax breaks by giving us 1000 jobs to assemble a portion of the tail. Not manufacture or machine or even engineer, just assemble. For 3.2 billion dollars in tax breaks as well as new roads and higher taxes for all washington citizens. So they pay nothing and I pay more....sounds like I got the short end of the deal on that one.

[blurp]

63. Oh, you could be

ultimatums. Traffic congestion and pollution. Strikes, stress and outsourcing. The latest estimate is that Boeing will take advantage of 3.2Billion in tax breaks by giving us 1000 jobs to assemble a portion of the tail. Not manufacture or machine or even engineer, just assemble. For 3.2 billion dollars in tax breaks as well as new roads and higher taxes for all Washington citizens. So they pay nothing and I pay more....sounds like I got the short end of the deal on that one.

It could be that you are getting the raw end of the deal, but I think it would take much more information than what we have available to us to determine that.

But I will say that tax breaks aren't necessarily always the evil some people make them out to be. It's important to look at all the consequences of such a tax break.

Going back to payroll taxes, for example. How many people don't have jobs because the payroll tax is too high? Are we getting LESS in tax dollars because those jobs that might be paying those taxes don't exist? Or maybe they exist only in India? What about the other negative consequences of unemployment such as social unrest? If we lower payroll taxes to increase employment, do we also have less violence or crime or theft?

Payroll taxes trade the away the welfare of one group (low skilled workers) for the welfare of another (seniors). We have to look at the whole picture.

I think when we do, we see that there really are serious downsides to having such high payroll taxes.

[Robin Hood]

67. I would have to disagree.

By putting money into the hands of people that will spend it right away on goods that create jobs, this is how you give a booster shot into the arm of a dragging economy. Giving it to people who don't need that money to spend right away does nothing to fight the recession blues, as evidenced by Bush's economy.

If you're goping to give tax breaks to boost the economy during economic hard times, it makes no sense to give it to people who don't need it.

[Yupster]

57. I think it's ironic

that the internet, which fueled the most recent economic boom, also provided the technology to enable companies to outsource tens of thousands of white collar jobs to India, the Philippines, etc.

Irony can be so ironic.

[dawgman]

18. Well the republican-led houses failed to extend the unemployment

insurance at the behest of the current admin. Their reasoning was that the economy is on the rebound. Unfortunately few to no new jobs have been created and the drop in unemployment numbers are not representative of the real picture. This denial of benefits flew right into the face of the fact that another extension (which we had $20 billion budgeted for just such a purpose so wouldn't have increased federal spending) would have pumped almost 100% percent of the money directly into the economy.

[Robin Hood]

20. I just got my first unemployment check today.

I was laid off because of the poor economy. I am scared, I keep reading these posts about how long people have been looking for a job. I look all day and all night on line for jobs and there are none out there, NONE!

I think that Bush is already toast as a president. There is no way that he can improve three years and three million lost jobs in just a few months. Even if they fudge the numbers, the people wont buy it.

[dawgman]

21. Hopefully the meme that people keep repeating to me hasn't taken

too firm a hold on the American psyche. I hear everyday from people, (friends, aquaintances, hiring managers) "well the economy is improving so it shouldn't be long now." I have been hearing that since last September or so.

[Robin Hood]

23. I have been hearing that since 2001.

It's always "Things will turn around in six months". I am sick of hearing these irrationalizations.

[dawgman]

25. Really. On what evidence do these people base their statements?

"Oh, I heard on the news that things are about to pick up." Why did they say that things were going to pick up? "They didn't really say, but they said spending was up and unemployment is going down." But what about the fact that no new jobs have been created? Where have all the unemployed people gone? "I don't know."

This is the typical conversation I have whenever my "non-employed" status comes up.

[Carl Spackler]

24. I was laid off after 17 years of bi-weekly paychecks

so I know exactly how you feel. Plus I have 6 kids (four plus two foster kids). Plus I'm in IT, and even before my company moved they were outsourcing like crazy. I used my time out of the workplace to retrain for videography, figuring that it's kind of hard to outsource aiming a camera at someone. So far my new gig is working out well - I'm on my own producing training videos. Just went through a dry spell of almost 2 months and was fondly remembering the paychecks, but actually I wouldn't go back.

[dawgman]

26. I'm starting to think about grad school or law school, I guess we'll see

what choices my new reality leaves me.

[Carl Spackler]

27. I'd just encourage you to stretch and go for it

I worked odd jobs to get through it and start my own thing. Not the easiest route, but I really don't want to trust my future to another corporation. One of the most insightful things I read was that employees feel more secure, but really their continued income is at the whim of one customer. Entrepeneurs spread the risk over many customers and are thus more secure than employees.

I also took heart in that even the most talentless people I know somehow manage to feed themselves, so I've got to be able to make it work!

[Robin Hood]

28. I was in IT as well.

But my last job was as a bar manager. The bar/restaurant is being hit hard by the economy and I was laid off because the owner could do it himself, even though he didn't want to.

I wanted to get into videography. I even shot and edited a two disk DVD set for a couples wedding last summer. But there isn't any great demand for video production, it's a limited field. I sure would enjoy taking classes in it. And I dream of working in video for PBS.

[Carl Spackler]

30. You've got to make the market

Plain jane videographers are a dime a dozen. But pick an area that you know something about and think about how you could use video to add value. Then make your pitch to those who would benefit. Broadband web video and interactive DVD are going to change everything and increase demand for video production, but for now you have to supply the imagination and energy to get it moving.

Contact me via private message if you want more info - probably not the place for further discussion.

[davsand]

29. Before he took office he was trash talking this economy.

That SOB was dishing dirt on the economy before he ever got into office--used it as an opportunity to make the Dems look like it was a failure from their watch. In the first year he went into office he did more to destroy investor confidence than any five "terra" attacks ever could.

You damn betcha I blame him. I blame him for the number of unemployed who didn't get any benefits extension, and I blame him for hiding behind 9/11 when this economy really tanked.

I also blame him for ramming thru tax breaks for corporations who do go offshore, and I also blame him for the open warfare that has been waged on organized labor in the US.

I'm not even gonna start on how I blame him for the number of vets who are not getting help in the VAs and the number of soldiers they've carted home from our little foray into Iraq that will be left permanently ill or disabled--with NO help from the VAs. How are THEY supposed to earn a living? Selling pencils? Working at WalMart?

Oh yeah, make no mistake, this IS his mess and I blame that fu*$er one hundred percent.

Laura

[Carl Spackler]

31. There were extensions

There were unemployment extensions - isn't it up to 18 months or so?

[dawgman]

32. I had my thirty weeks of normal unemployment and

got one fifteen week extension. Forty-five weeks. That's it that's all. see my above post (reply to your first post).

[Carl Spackler]

33. I'm just gonna get abuse for this, but 45 weeks is a lot!

That's 7 weeks shy of a full year! If you saved something during the good years that means you can sit out an entire year, get retrained, whatever. How much do you think is the right amount?

[dawgman]

36. How do you save when you were underemployed to begin with?

I lived essentially paycheck to paycheck. I don't have credit card debt or any of the other things people whine about and I still couldn't save anything. Forty-five weeks making a grand total of $275 a week isn't alot. And like I said earlier I was applying for 20-100 jobs a week and could barely get a sniff. My wife thought the same thing "you have to be able to find something in that amount of time." She has been looking with me and has found the same as me, NOTHING.

Alot of time is a relative term. I couldn't even get on anywhere for seasonal holiday employment. I am always OVER qualified or UNDER qualified.

[Carl Spackler]

37. I apologize for the way that sounded

Sorry man. Good luck and I hope you find something soon.

[dawgman]

38. I appreciate it and there is no need to apologize.

If I wasn't going through this I would have trouble with my story as well.

[Mairead]

13. As someone who got her last one over a year ago...

I can only say: vote for Kucinich if you want to live. Everyone else wants to take care of the corporations instead of us.

[dawgman]

19. I am caucusing for him on Sat at 10 am in Washington State.

[Mairead]

73. Bravo! Best luck in the caucus

...and VERY best luck with quickly finding a new income source.

[blurp]

39. Payroll taxes are part of the problem

I think Dean was right when he said that payroll taxes should be reduced. Employers shouldn't be penalized for employing people and that's basically what payroll taxes do.

I think it's important that everyone remember that employment is a two-way street. No one has to hire anyone. No one has to work for anyone. If we wanted, we could probably go back to all being poor farmers growing our own food and milking our own cows.

The reason we don't is because we can produce a lot more by working together, but if you set up barriers to that cooperation, at some point one of the parties is going to give up on the economic relationship. Payroll taxes are a barrier to employment and I think Dean was very courageous to suggest some reform.

We can't MAKE companies hire more workers. They have to believe it makes economic sense. We shouldn't have a tax system that discourages employment.

[dawgman]

40. Ummmm OOOKKK

Not to be a jerk but what does that have to do with the topic?

[blurp]

43. Well, the discussion is about being unemployed

I was trying to offer a reason why it is some people may be unemployed.

I think payroll taxes do play a part in creating unemployment. If we want more jobs creation, reforming payrolls taxes is important.

I don't really think the post is off-topic.

[dawgman]

46. So corporate welfare is the answer to our unemployment problem?

That has been tried for a long time and the more corporate entitlements we give out the harder and dryer they fuck us.

[blurp]

53. Inaccurate language

That has been tried for a long time and the more corporate entitlements we give out the harder and dryer they fuck us.

I'm not going to say that your statement is deceptive, only that it is inaccurate and doesn't promote clear thinking on the issue.

Reducing a burden is not the same as giving an entitlement. Reducing a tax is not giving anything out, unless services are being provided by the government tax free.

[alcuno]

55. Hi blurp! When you say "payroll tax" you mean social security.

They are taking money from social security now to use toward our deficit spending. The problem with reducing payroll taxes is that the future of social security is already on really shaky ground. If they want to reduce payroll taxes for the working poor and lower middle class, I say go for it. But how about INCREASING the payroll tax for people making over $125,000/year. Right now it maxes out at $82,000/year so that Bill Gates and I are both contributing the same yearly amount to social security.

[blurp]

60. Might as well go all the way and call it what it is: welfare for seniors

If they want to reduce payroll taxes for the working poor and lower middle class, I say go for it. But how about INCREASING the payroll tax for people making over $125,000/year.

I totally agree.

We should just go ahead and be honest about Social Security: it's welfare for seniors paid for mostly by the lowest income earners.

You're right of course about some of the money paying to fund other federal spending. It would be much more honest if they simply raised the income taxes on workers and lowered payroll taxes. You'd get the same effect, except people would realize how much they're getting screwed. Right now they claim they are "investing" social security money by loaning it to the government, but they are just trying to be clever with language.

[dawgman]

56. Look I am looking for a link but my understanding is that many companies

such as boeing pay nothing or next to nothing in taxes. Reduction from nothing is a negative. Negative income tax, when applied to people, has always been called an entitlement. Therefore negative taxation, when applied to corporations, should also be called an entitlement.

Now if you are talking about the tax burden put on the small businesses of America I agree. Just like rich versus poor, big busines should bear more of the tax burden than small business. Small business should receive the breaks given to big business as they employ far more people than big corporations.

[blurp]

61. But I don't think payroll taxes are deductible

such as Boeing pay nothing or next to nothing in taxes. Reduction from nothing is a negative. Negative income tax, when applied to people, has always been called an entitlement. Therefore negative taxation, when applied to corporations, should also be called an entitlement.

But I don't think we're talking about negative taxation here. It's my belief (I'll have to do more research) that payroll taxes are mandatory and they are separate from income taxes. So when you see that a company has paid no income taxes, I'm pretty sure they've had to pay payroll taxes anyway.

[Peregrine]

42. Got my last one last July

and still no job. There seems to be few jobs for which I am qualified and no one wants me for the jobs for which I am over-qualified.

[Djinn]

44. does welfare runout in USA?

I've got the impression from TV (bad place for getting info I know) and from a few threads on DU (much better for info!) that in America people only get welfare/social security/unemployment benefits for a limited amount of time - is this right, or are people takling about a personal deferred savings plan sort of like superannuation??

If it does run out after a certain amount of time and you havn't got a job what is the suggestion from governments as to what to do? do you steal food or sell drugs? Seems a bizarro system

[Carl Spackler]

48. Unemployment is different than welfare

You pay into unemployment insurance with every paycheck. If you are out of work you get an unemployment check each week for a period of time (now 45 weeks according to this thread). Welfare is different, and I don't know the rules. Bill Clinton passed "welfare reform" that did limit how long someone can be on welfare.

[rman]

69. so you go on wellfare after unemployment benefits run out?

i'm probably being naively optimistic here, just want to be sure.

[SOS]

71. No

Not sure if these things vary from state to state, but in New York State the current maximum for unemployment is 26 weeks.
Able-bodied adults are no longer eligible for welfare in New York State, regardless of their circumstance.

[arewethereyet]

49. government suggestion

find another line of work

[alcuno]

62. Government suggestion for what to do - EAT DIRT!

That's right. There is currently 10 billion dollars available for unemployment extensions and our government (the Republican majority) refuses to extend benefits for people who can't find jobs,

We created a net 1000 jobs in the whole of the United States during the month of December when it takes 125,000 jobs just to keep up with new workers. The government's answer to the unemployed? EAT DIRT!

I have a good job and it makes me sick to see my fellow citizens losing their jobs, their homes, and their health insurance. We have $500,000,000,000/year to spend on our military and another $160,000,000,000 to spend on Iraq but our government REFUSES to allow its own citizens to have food, shelter, and meager health coverage.

"Bizarro" is one word for it. "Inhumane" is mine

[dawgman]

47. sounds like me.

[Djinn]

64. if it lets people starve I agree

but it would be a bit rude to call something I don't know much about inhumane.

From posts above I gather that if you've never been employed you can not get unemployment payments - it's like insurance that you've paid the premiums for right? and welfare is provided by the government for those who have no unemploymwent insurance? but that also has a time limit right? Is there also other limitations (like do you have to have lived on bread and water for two months before receiving it)

I guess people use the same "there's plenty of jobs for those who are willing" line as they do here but surely it's obvious that even if you accept the "some people just don't wanna work" argument that these people may well have kids? surely it'd be cheaper to provide the benefits than deal with the social drama's that arise from long term or inter generational unemployemnt. Maybe it's just that I've grown up under "commie" systems in UK and Oz??

[mwdem]

50. Hey, you're not alone...

and our friend, who's still convinced that the "God's chosen president" will find those pesky WMD'S just ran out of his unemployment checks. I really hope you find something soon!

[Tinoire]

51. Dawgman- what city do you live in & what do you do?

Maybe some DUer in your state might know of an opening or be able to help you out.

My prayers are with you!

[dawgman]

52. Live in Seattle WA. and can do just about anything

Have a BA but have also done all forms of construction. Know most MS office programs. Can type. Can drive a forklift and have some big rigging experience. Have done retail. Will do anything and learn very quickly.

[Tinoire]

58. Not my area.. Would suggest you post a thread in the lounge

titled: Seattle DUers, I am looking for a job and go from there. Trouble with that is that lurkers could read it and I'd hate to see any lurking sickos waste your time but a DUer might know of something or even be hiring. Good Luck!

PS. I would be glad to look at your resume and finesse it for you if you want.

[ComerPerro]

65. Yeah, amen

"See, fewer people are filing for benifits..."

Because their benifits ran out, assholes!!!!!

[Seldona]

66. I feel for you.

I am scared as hell right now.

Our families coffeehouse is on the verge of going under, and the consulting job that has been keeping us afloat is about history.

I am not looking forward to entering the job market right now, even though I am in a niche field.

I most likely will have to take something local and at far less pay, if anything.

I work from home, and I know there will be nothing local in my profession.

And the business has eliminated ever last dime of our savings.

What a wonderful world.

[FuseONE]

68. Well

I'm on my fourth week of unemployment. It's good to know I have so many options available, haha. Thankfully, I've got no kids and my rent isn't too expensive. Although the UE check is about half of what I was making before. I'm not looking forward to the end of this, because I know there's no jobs out there.

[MaddogTerp]

70. bump

this just needed to be moved back up to the top

[rocktivity]

72. I'll be claiming my last UI check next week (I hope)

I've been bouncing between unemployment and temping since the summer of 2002. A pharmaceutical company where I've temped twice just offered me a temp-to-perm position. Tainted money, I know, but in three months I'll be making enough to "launder" it by donating to DU and others!


rocknation