How Bush Missed the Opportunity to Get Bin Laden.

[Solomon]

Bush had the last opportunity to get Bin Laden so they need to stop with the Clunton bullshit.

After 9-11 we demanded that the Taliban hand over Bin Laden. Many people have been misled into believing that the Taliban refused to do so. They did not. They did what any reasonable sovereign would do. They asked us to furnish evidence that Bin Laden was involved and they would hand him over. Certainly a reasonable request. Consider if some country demanded that we arrest and turn over a US citizen, would we not ask for some basis?

Americans are so arrogant that we didn't notice that we gave them no evidence at all. The only evidence we gave them was carpet bombing. In fact, I dare say, americans are so arrogant that we took offense to the Taliban asking for evidence. We simply gave them a deadline to turn him over, after which we started the bobmbing.

I'll let you all answer the question of why we didn't provide evidence to the Taliban. And while you're pondering why we didn't, let's take note of the fact that even we as americans were not provided with any proof of this "fact." (Don't even try to talk about the fake videotape and audiotapes) As another poster so aptly put it, Bush is nothing but a bluffing poker player, playing the game with a room full of suckers.

[ex_jew]

1. I've always thought we should have let them try him

as they suggested. We could always have invaded later if dissatisfied with the verdict. But I guess the trial without evidence might have looked bad.

[Old and In the Way]

2. Here's an excellent essay that everyone should read concerning

our "war" on Al Qaeda....why did we let them get away, on purpose, in Afghanistan??????

"Escape from Afghanistan" www.cooperativeresearch.org

[chookie]

3. There's more to this than you may already know

Yes -- the Taliban did in fact have Osama bin Laden under house arrest, and were quite ready to hand him over to the Americans, asking however for proof of his involvement.

We all know that the Taliban were nasty authoritarian people, but as usual with reality, facts are more complicated than myth and fiction. Back in 1999, an Indian aircraft was hijacked by Muslim fundamentalists. They attempted to land in a number of Muslim countries, but no one would allow them to do so. When they landed in Afghanistan, it was the Taliban who got them to surrender. The Taliban made it very clear to the perpetrators that they did not support such terroristic operations, and negotiated the release of their hostages and the surrender of the hijackers.

The Taliban were harsh and authoritarian, but not entirely lacking in honor and justice. I for one took them at their word that they would hand over bin Laden -- and I think the incident I describe here lends credence to this belief.

But for some reason, Bush refused to offer any evidence, and refused their offer. It doesn't make sense, unless you can see that getting bin Laden from them would ruin The Plan to invade Afghanistan.

[chookie]

5. On the Indian Airlines incident

"Airliner in Afghanistan's Kandahar Airport
25 December 1999, 1115 IST
The hijacked Indian Airlines airbus is still in Kandahar airport (Afghanistan). The Indian authorities are reported to have contacted the Taliban to find out what is happening. According to the Taliban media, the Taliban have refused to allow passengers to get off the plane, while condemning the incident and calling the hijackers "terrorists". The Taliban have also refused political asylum to the hijackers. It is still not clear what the terrorists want and who they are. Rumours have it that the hijack could be an attempt to secure the release of two key Pakistani terrorists, Masood Azhar and Langrial, who are currently in Indian prisons. There have been several attempts to secure the release of these two men, who are responsible for scores of terrorist killings in Kashmir. "

http://www.subcontinent.com/sapra/terrorism/tr_1999_12_25.html

[Solomon]

6. Chookie. They didn't offer any evidence because

we didn't have any. Plain and simple. And the american public has been so distracted that it doesn't realize that there is no evidence. If the government said so, then it must be the gospel truth.

[G_j]

4. Bush rejects Taliban's offer on handing over bin Laden

www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0WDQ/2001_Oct_22/80338926/p1/article.jhtml

Bush rejects Taliban's offer on handing over bin Laden.

Asian Political News, Oct 22, 2001
WASHINGTON, Oct. 14 Kyodo

President George W. Bush on Sunday rejected an offer from Afghanistan's ruling Taliban to discuss turning over Islamic militant Osama bin Laden if the United States stops air strikes against Afghanistan.

''There is no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty,'' Bush told reporters as he returned to the White House from his Camp David presidential retreat in Maryland.
''Turn him over, turn his cohorts over, turn any hostage they hold over, destroy all the terrorist camps. There's no need to negotiate...I told them exactly what they need to do,'' Bush said.

The Bush administration believes bin Laden masterminded the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. It accuses the Taliban of providing shelter to the Saudi fugitive and his al-Qaida network of terrorist groups.

At a news conference in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, on Sunday, Taliban Deputy Prime Minister Haji Abdul Kabir said the Taliban would be willing to discuss handing over bin Laden to a third country, or putting him on trial in Afghanistan, if the U.S. military ends bombing and provides evidence of his involvement in the attacks on the U.S
..more..

story also at: www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/14/ret.retaliation.facts/

[Old and In the Way]

7. Very, very strange

Did you know that OBL bought a Jet Transport plane from the Pentagon in 1991? Some say OBL did business with the CIA for the Alghan resistance as Tim Ossman.....hmmmm.

Bush told us on 9/13 that we'd get OBL dead or alive and that we'd drain the AQ's financial swamp. We've done neither.

Exactly 6 months later when Bush was asked about the hunt for OBL, his answer was "who cares if he's dead or alive".

Was mission accomplished?

[roddaddy]

11. Link?

Pretty serioud charge. Any links or other colaberation?

[Solomon]

12. I think its common knowledge that Bin Laden was a US collaborator

during the time of the Soviet afghan war, just like we used Saddam to go after Iran.

[Old and In the Way]

15. Welcome aboard roddaddy.

Sure, the best source for factual truth on AQ, 9/11, Bush, and Oil-

www.cooperativeresearch.org

Toggle down to 1991...it's there with sourcing.

BTW, cooperative research backs every fact with traditional media sources.

[roddaddy]

21. Thanks for info

Too many links there to find specifics. Did yahoo search, though and found article. There's always so much going on behind the scenes and so many stories... makes you wanna throw your hands up and say F. I.!
But we can't. We gotta try to sort fact from fiction and spread the word in any and all ways possible!!

[Old and In the Way]

22. You're welcome!

That's why I refer people to www.cooperativeresearch.org Paul Thompson has done a great job prganizing the information in a reasonably coherent way.

His 9/11 timeline is also worth reading. He's also a poster here on DU.

[Old and In the Way]

18. RE: the Tim Osman - OBL connection

Here's a story written by J.Olin Grabbe....I honestly can't vouch for the veracity or whether this is some wierd disinformation, but it is a great read.

J. Orlin Grabbe's homepage is located at http://orlingrabbe.com < http://orlingrabbe.com/>.
-30-
from The Laissez Faire City Times, Vol 5, No 46, November 12, 2001

November 8, 2001
When Osama Bin Ladin Was Tim Osman
By J. Orlin Grabbe
The two men headed to the Hilton Hotel in Sherman Oaks, California in the late Spring of 1986 were on their way to meet representatives of the mujahadeen, the Afghan fighters resisting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
One of the two, Ted Gunderson, had had a distinguished career in the FBI, serving as some sort of supervisor over Special Agents in the early 60s, as head of the Dallas field office from 1973-75, and as head of the Los Angeles field office from 1977-1979. He retired to become an investigator for, among others, well-known attorney F. Lee Bailey. And all along the way, Gunderson, whether or not actually a CIA contract agent, had been around to provide services to various CIA and National Security Council operations, as he was doing now.

<snip>

Meeting Riconosciuto and Gunderson at the hotel were two representatives of the mujahadeen, waiting to discuss their armament needs. One of the two was named "Ralph Olberg." The other one was called Tim Osman (or Ossman).
"Ralph Olberg" was an American businesman who was leading the procurement of American weapons and technology on behalf of the Afghan rebels. He worked through the Afghan desk at the U.S. State Department, as well as through Senator Hubert Humphrey's office. Olberg looked after the Afghanis through a curious front called MSH—Management Sciences for Health.
The other man, dressed in Docker's clothing, was not a native Afghan any more than Olberg was. He was a 27-year-old Saudi. Tim Osman (Ossman) has recently become better known as Osama Bin Ladin. "Tim Osman" was the name assigned to him by the CIA for his tour of the U.S. and U.S. military bases, in search of political support and armaments.
Gunderson and Riconosciuto were not on an altruistic mission. They had some conditions for their help. And they had some bad news to deliver. The mujahadeen needed to be willing to test new weapons in the field and to return a research report, complete with photos.
The bad news was that some factions of the CIA didn't feel that Oldberg and Osman's group were the real representatives of the Afghans. Upon hearing this both Tim and Ralph were indignant. They wanted to mount a full-court press. Round up other members of their group and do a congressional and White House lobbying effort in Washington, D.C.


snipped for copyright...since bin Laden family was tight with the Bush family, not a big stretch for me to believe.

[calimary]

9. This is a STELLAR way to refute republi-CONS who go straight to

that crap about Clinton letting Osama slip through his fingers. What does this say about how bush handled things!?!?!?!?

An excellent article to bookmark, copy, save, whatever. I'm printing out a copy for myself even as I write this. Always appreciate good ammo.

[Solomon]

10. There's also a story by I think Seymour Hersh about how we had

Bin Laden trapped in afghanistan after the war started, but for some reason, we let him fly out of the trap. Sorry I'm too tired to find the link for you.

[proud patriot]

8. This is what I ask freepers

who say clinton let bin laddin go ..

I say " bush let him go after 911 "

[ComerPerro]

16. That is a great way to put it

That is just powerful.

"But, but, Clinton was handed bin Laden on a silver platter but he refused"

"Fuck you. Bush let bin Laden go AFTER 9/11"

[jpak]

13. Rummy's Afghanistan war strategy allowed OBL to escape from Tora Bora

Because their real objective was the invasion of I-raq, BushCo did not commit sufficient ground forces to properly prosecute the war in Afghanistan.

Instead of committing overwhelming US ground forces to the campaign, Rummy et al., relied heavily on local militia - backed by US special forces and air power - in the coalition offensive against the Taliban and Al Qeda.

This was especially true at Tora Bora - OBL's mountain stronghold.

The local militia failed to fully encircle the position where OBL was dug in. US forces at Tora Bora were too few in number to reinforce the milita and assault OBL's last known location.

As a result, OBL got away.

ChimpCo has no one to blame but themselves for this failure.

[jpak]

14. Check this out

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0304/p01s03-wosc.html

[ComerPerro]

17. They didn't want to catch bin Laden

I mean, think realistically here.

Let's say they said, after 9/11, "We know where the man responsible is, he is in Afgan custody, and we are working through the diplomatic processes to bring him to justice". And then suppose they did.

Well, this hurts them on several fronts.

One: Despite the boost and respect they would have had (even from me, I admidt, had they done this), it would have run out of gas because everyone would by now realize what a massive idiot fuckup Bush is.

Two: If bin Laden is captured, there is no war on terror. Therefore, there is no way to justify the actions taken such as the Patriot Act, which were just grabs for power.

Three: There is no reason to invade Afganistan and completely light up the Taliban, which they had planned to do that summer.

Four: There is no real reason to justify invading Iraq and removing Saddam, which they had planned to do as early as 1998.

[Old and In the Way]

19. Every Enemy needs a face.

That face is OBL.

How are you going to justify a $400BB budget to get mohammed el-nobody? Bush/bin-Laden - a dysfunctional, co-enabling couple.

[Snappy]

20. Afghanistan

There were negotiations of a natural gas pipe line in Afghanistan with the Taliban that fell through. This is one of main reasons for the invasion. Afghanistan has billions of dollars worth of natural gas underground. Go to the PNAC site and read.