Dean's Iraq position

[sandnsea]

Here's what the man said. Apparently he was duped too because he says he believes Saddam had chemical weapons. He also says he wants go in with the United Nations. His position was exactly the same as John Kerry's, regardless of his infamous swipes at the opposition. I do not know what you Deanies see in this guy. Every time I try to get behind him, I go see what he actually said or did and it never matches. Never. Jeez.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0210/05/cg.00.html

GOV. HOWARD DEAN (D), VERMONT: I don't know what John Kerry's position is, because I've seen different positions at different times. But I can tell you what mine is. I believe that we may need to go into Iraq at some point. There's no question that Saddam is a threat, the question is, is he an immediate threat? The president has not made the case.

And so we have time to build a multilateral coalition. But I think we're much better off going in with our allies and the United Nations than we are going it alone.

HUNT: As a physician, what potential biological or chemical terrorist threat against our citizens most worries you?

DEAN: Chemical weapons are somewhat hard to transport, and not quite as effective, at least the ones that Saddam is likely to have. Biological weapons are more serious, and I think anthrax is the most likely. It's unlikely, I think, that the terrorists have smallpox.

[sfecap]

1. "The President has not made the case"

Apparently Kerry thought so.

[sandnsea]

3. Dean DIDN'T HAVE TO VOTE

Kerry didn't think the case had been made in October either. He didn't even think the case had been made in March. I honestly do not understand people who choose to follow somebody who is pretending his position is different than what it actually is. His position is exactly, precisely, to the letter, the same as Kerry's. The only difference is, Dean DIDN'T HAVE TO VOTE.

AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jacobin]

6. Yeah, and Kerry had the opportunity to show us what he was made of

Dean didn't except to publicly come out against the war when it was EXTREMELY unpopular and everyone had written him off as being in the minority.

Kerry had an opportunity to triumph and he blew it.

[sandnsea]

9. Dean wasn't against the war

I guess some just can't read.

"I believe that we may need to go into Iraq at some point...

And so we have time to build a multilateral coalition. But I think we're much better off going in with our allies and the United Nations than we are going it alone."

I just don't know how much clearer this can be. Dean supported the war. He just supported a war with the UN and with allies. If he'd been in Congress, the man would have voted YES. It's as plain as day. And Kerry said the exact same things, exact. I don't know why some just don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it any less true.

[sfecap]

8. And Kerry could have voted NO.

But he didn't have the guts.

That would have shown Kerry's position, if he thought that * hadn't made the case.

[sandnsea]

10. Dean wouldn't have

Why should Kerry? Their positions were and are exactly, precisely, the same!!!!!

[sfecap]

14. No, their positions aren't exactly the same.

Kerry apparently felt the pResident had made his case, and he voted to support him.

Dean didn't think he had made the case.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. "The President has not made the case"

eom

[Pastiche423]

2. Pardon?

Exactly how was he "duped"?

[sandnsea]

5. He SAID Saddam was a threat and had weapons

That's being duped on this board.

[Pastiche423]

13. Lame. Way lame

:eyes:

Kerry voted for an pre-emptive war. Get over it!

[sandnsea]

21. I'm over it

Dean supported it too. Why's he lying about it?

[Pastiche423]

25. Dean did not support it

And it really seems you are NOT over Kerry's vote. Otherwise, why start this thread?

[Jacobin]

4. It seems he adopted the UN's position

which I personally backed.

Inspections.....they very very obviously worked.

[poskonig]

7. Kerry's problem:

Kerry is running as the professional, experienced, seasoned alternative to the other Democrats and Bush. When Kerry says he was "misled" by bunnypants, Kerry sounds like a weasel to everyone. Even if Dean was a Senator and voted for the resolution, this is why Dean would not have the problem and Kerry would.

I'm not sure what Kerry could do to change the situation or whether such a change is desirable.

[sandnsea]

11. What??????

It's okay to have Dean as President and have him misled, but not Kerry???? What the hell kind of argument is that????

Nobody voted for Bush to lie.

[poskonig]

12. It is not an argument. It is an observation.

Claiming that one is oh so experienced AND that one was duped by the Chimp makes one look like a weasel. Dean isn't running with a "I'm more experienced than you, neener neener nee-ner" theme. Therefore, IF Dean made such a mistake, it would not hurt him as much. We see the same principle in Edwards -- he supported the war, but Kerry is the one getting shit for flipflopping.

Think about it.

I'll vote for Kerry if he is the nominee in the future, but that is the reality the Kerry people have to deal with in the present.

[sandnsea]

16. Bizarre

I just don't see your logic. Cheney pressured the CIA into manipulating evidence. Bush out and out lies. But somehow Kerry was supposed to figure this out. But it's okay to elect Dean even though he didn't. And then it's okay for Dean to turn around and manipulate his own position as anti-war and being smarter than the rest because he wasn't duped. But the facts are he was duped.

I can't follow Dean logic. Just can't.

And I'm not supporting Edwards at all. He was 100% for invasion in September, no qualifiers. Kerry isn't flipflopping, he's been 100% consistent. Much more so than Dean.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. "The President has not made the case"

Read it. Understand it.

[poskonig]

26. There is no logic to it.

I repeat: I am not making an argument.

Kerry is running as uberexperience superjudgment man while claiming he got duped by Junior. This makes him look like a weasel. Edwards is running as "ahm uh mullwuhkuh's boy" and hence does not take as much damage for voting for the war.

This isn't that difficult to understand.

[tsipple]

15. Wrong. Dean and Kerry Different on Vote

Dean didn't have to vote and said, before the vote, that he would vote against the Iraq Resolution.

Kerry voted for the Iraq Resolution.

We can speculate forever on whether Dean would have voted for or against the resolution if he were actually in a position to do so. But he opposed the resolution, and that's quite different.

On edit: Note that Bob Graham and Dennis Kucinich voted against the resolution.

[sandnsea]

19. His position was the same

And I don't care which way he says he would have voted, frankly, the man's a liar. So, there, I've said it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. "The President has not made the case."

What part of that phrase do you not comprehend?

[w4rma]

17. On Sunday, October 6, 2002, just before the Iraq resolution vote Dean said

Dean, whose advocacy of liberal domestic policies has struck a chord among grass-roots activists here, offered the sharpest dissent. He contended that Bush has yet to make a compelling case to justify going to war.

"The greatest fear I have about Iraq is not just that we will engage in unwise conduct and send our children to die without having an adequate explanation from the president of the United States," he said. "The greater fear I have is the president has never said what the truth is, which is if we go into Iraq we will be there for 10 years to build that democracy and the president must tell us that before we go."
http://www.dre-mfa.gov.ir/eng/iraq/iraqanalysis_27.html

[sandnsea]

23. Kerry said the same sorts of things

It boggles my mind that Dean gets a pass and Kerry is a villain. And it further boggles my mind that people say Dean didn't think Saddam was a threat and didn't think Saddam had the chemical weapons. Kerry was duped but Dean 'knew better'. It's a load of crappola. You have to take everything Dean said, not just cherry-pick like another bunch of fruitcakes we know.

[RetroLounge]

27. Kerry said the same *sorts* of things

oh, sorts, huh? Is that the "same." or just "Sorta" the same.

"and Iraq harbors Al-Queda *type* terrorists, right?"

Not equal, not the same. As in different.

Get over it, your guy voted for the war. He may have been duped, but do we want a president who was duped. Bush* and his cronies say he was duped with the Niger story in the SOTU. Same thing? or Different?

And we'll never know how Dean would have voted. But those of us have our own opinions on it.

You may think Dean and Kerry are the same, but 9000 + people said otherwise this weekend, with their dollars...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. In other words:

"The President has not made the case."

Sheesh. Thanks, w4rma.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

28. Kick.

:kick:

[stickdog]

29. On the Iraq War: Dean = Right, Kerry = Wrong.

Sorry, but right is not exactly the same as wrong.

[jmags]

30. I agree with everything Dean said.