Do loved ones bid farewell from beyond the grave?

[Kurmudgeon]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/23/living/crisis-apparitions/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

I've never experienced a "crisis apparition". However, when my mother passed away I woke up in the middle of the night and when my sister called I already knew what she was going to say. Perhaps we're connected in ways that aren't readily apparent.

[Tunkamerica]

1. When my water heater exploded I woke up immediately. It must have been jesus.

or Diego.

[Uben]

2. I don't wanna bust anyone's bubble, but dead is dead!

You aint coming back. All you are going to do is decompose. There is no ethereal place in the heavens for you to roost unless you are Uma THurman in Kill Bill 2 and can bust your way out of a casket and manage to dig through 6 ft of packed dirt. And, you are no Uma Thurman, kiddo! (pun intended, if you get it)

[timtom]

5. You've sparked my curiosity.

For millennia, death has been an elusive mystery. And yet, you have somehow indicated a degree of certitude on the issue. Do you know something, or is that just your opinion?

[Uben]

8. How many dead people have talked to you?

I rest my case.

[timtom]

13. Well, you really didn't answer my question

which was a two-parter.

Do you know something that the rest of humanity doesn't?

Is what you said your opinion?

Easily parsed, easily answered.

There really isn't any case to rest.

[Uben]

18. "There really isn't any case to rest"

That would be you're opinion. And, since I did not quote anyone else, of course everything I say is my opinion, based on my own intelligence and experiences. Don't you find it odd that since the beginning of mankind there is not one shred of solid evidence of any life after death? Sorry, I have a logical mind that does not allow me to believe in such tripe. I have had dreams that seemed real, but they were just that....dreams. You can't sell me something I can't see and touch. There are a lot of frozen bodies or body parts hoping to someday be resurrected, but those too are pipe dreams. Even if we someday might be able to restart life from these remains, it will be a resurrection of tissues, not a person. When you die, your memories and thoughts are gone forever. Dems da facts!
I don't know anything that the rest of humanity doesn't already know. Some of them just refuse to accept reality. I would not be one of them!

And, of course, you did not answer my question. Typical.

[Kurmudgeon]

20. "since the beginning of mankind there is not one shred of solid evidence of any life after death?"

I feel you have a too high estimation of your own intelligence. You are making presumptions on what has happened to other people based strictly on your own experience. Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it hasn't happened elsewhere.
The subject is not life after death so much as contact at the moment of death. Do try to stay on topic next time.

[Uben]

23. You can question my intelligence all you like....

...because you don't know me at all. That's okay, because it is not my job or intention to change anyone's beliefs. Nothing you can say or do will change mine either.

The human brain is a wonder in itself. I try to keep an open mind on it's true capabilities, but limit my expectations to what can be proved scientifically, for obvious reasons.

In an effort to keep things cordial, I will not question your intelligence (something you might consider in the future). But, I will agree that mankind does not yet understand the true scope of the human brain and what it can or cannot do.

[Kurmudgeon]

34. I questioned your intelligence because I found your statement presumptuous.

That's why I posted it to reply to. I haven't even came down on one side of the question or the other, yet you were so quick to dismiss, I figured I'd give you a taste of your own medicine. Your statement of disbelief does not disprove this subject is all I'm saying.
As for what the human brain can perceive and on what levels, that is also yet to be fully determined.
If science has taught us anything it would be not to assume that all the facts are in.

[jberryhill]

40. Also, there's good money in it

Do you say "keep an open mind" to the widow whose bank account is being drained by the medium who delivers messages from her departed husband?

When her children try to protect their mother and the estate, do you say "hey, we don't know it all".

[Kurmudgeon]

54. You're changing the subject, fraud is fraud and should always be punished, no matter how it's done.

[jberryhill]

59. I'm simply observing that there is a lot of industry based on the OP question

Including that of quite a few religions, spiritual scams, and general mindfuckery over a question which will be answered with certitude for each individual eventually.

It's like knowing that your Netflix movie is arriving tomorrow, but spending all day today checking your mailbox anyway.

[CBHagman]

37. You haven't kept things cordial.

You introduced a certain tone in your very first entry.

The punctuation errors are also distracting (your vs. you're, its vs. it's).

[Tutankhamun]

42. How dare you say Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist.

[roguevalley]

50. + 1000

[timtom]

25. See, you're making assumptions.

Do you think that I'm "selling" something? Have I made one assertive statement about life-after-death?

What do you think this conversation is about, anyway?

However, to answer your one "question": None.

Now, just what do you mean, "Typical?"

Typical of what? You state and imply many things with an alarming degree of certitude. If you had that sort of intellectual/psychic power, I suspect you'd have bigger fish to fry than hanging out on a discussion board.

[truth2power]

44. Your certitude about something that no one currently alive

can have any certitude about, one way or the other, is quite interesting.

I do not identify myself as Christian, nor do I consider myself religious in the traditional way. I think it's highly unlikely that Jesus rose from the dead, although he may have survived the crucifixion. That's an entirely different discussion, though. But I digress.

I tend to use as my model that which was stated by Hamlet: "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio."

The observations in physics regarding the concept of nonlocality, or action at a distance, does make one wonder about the links that may exist between various entities. And whether our memories and thoughts die with us just can't be known. JMHO.

[jberryhill]

64. ..and the observations in psychology regarding perception, cognition and memory...

...do make one wonder about spiritual phenomena.

Here is someone who clearly is in regular contact with another plane of spiritual reality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XREnvJRkif0

I am not uncritically going to accept his conclusions, or those ranted by any other similarly fascinating bearded "holy men".

[truth2power]

73. I don't have a beard, and I'm not a man, holy or otherwise....

Why is it necessary to compare those who say there are things in the realm of the spiritual that we just can't explain to someone who's obviously mad?

I have had pre-cognitive dreams twice in my life. I don't choose to go into detail about these experiences, here. I can only say that those dreams pre-figured events that were highly unlikely to occur in everyday life. I can't explain it. I don't wish to denigrate people who don't believe in such things. I can only say that if it hasn't happened to you, you have no way to understand what I'm talking about. I really have no way to understand it, either. I just know it happened.

[jberryhill]

74. So have I

But precognitive dreams of unlikely events which then actually occur is a statistically certain event.

[truth2power]

79. You don't know. I'll leave it at that. I have no need to convince you. n/t

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roguevalley]

49. you discount the endless millions of experiences of people including

me that have had experiences with people who have passed. You haven't had an experience so you cast that as the eternal truth.

[jberryhill]

61. You discount the many amazing things the human mind does

It is important for us to understand the human mind, because it is our only tool of seeing this species through to continued survival.

But your mind is CLOSED to the HUGE amount of work and effort which has gone into understanding quite a lot, but still not enough, to how the human mind works, so when confronted with psychological understandings of what are commonly perceived as spiritual phenomena, you react with "oh, you just think they're all crazy, it that it?"

It's not that simple. We ARE all crazy. And at no time in human history has it been as critical to our survival that we understand how and why we are all "crazy" and learn to compensate for it.

It's not as if differences of opinion on the question of "what happens over death" is some sort of benign parlor game. It is deadly serious, and I for one certainly do not discount the resulting hazard of people who can't handle definitive ignorance on the subject, but feel compelled to tell us what they "know".

There are reasons why a Pentecostal church service looks just like a Voodoo ceremony which in turn looks like some odd Hindu festival, which looks like a Catholic saint's festival in some town that hasn't seen much traffic since the middle ages.

The commonality and universality of these things, which all purport to have entirely conflicting bases in a proposed "spiritual reality", more strongly indicates that they are of common origin in the way that the human mind operates to organize societies.

People with peculiar notions about "spiritual reality" end up burning people at the stake, engaging in counterproductive social policies and flying airplanes into office buildings, to name but a few.

[roguevalley]

67. name a buddhist that burned someone at the stake. blanket

accusations about religions and people are awful no matter what your point of view. I don't give a damn what 'religions' do or think. I don't care. I do know what my soul feels and has discovered by actionsand events in my life. You guys turn yourself into pretzels trying to find other explanations for what millions of us know. There are even skeptics who would rather believe mediums 'read people's thoughts' rather than speak with the spirits of those who have passed from this world.

Don't talk for me. Don't presume for me. I don't 'discount' shit. I know what I have personally experienced and I reiterate what someone else said on a similar thread: there are those who have had supernatural experiences and there are all the rest who haven't.

And unlike you, that is fine with me. as for the 'HUGE' amount of 'WORK', I read it. Basically, you are one of those who decry what we don't know and "but feel compelled to tell us what they "know"." Nothing like surety even though you say no one really knows anything. Intersting.

I know what I saw, felt and experienced. I don't care what you feel about that. I answered the OP's question with my own experience. You go ahead and be as you are. I don't care. Just don't jump on my ass because you don't like it. There are millions of us who will disagree with you.

[jberryhill]

68. "Don't talk for me"

You are outraged at my interpretation of my own experience, and my sense of awe and wonder at the human mind.

I am sorry your belief system is so intolerant that the views of others offends you.

[PatSeg]

72. Some of the reactions in this thread

remind me why I rarely discuss this subject anymore, but I really appreciated reading your experiences. I can understand not believing in something one can't see, but I don't understand those who will belittle people who have had profound and life-changing experiences.

The older I get, the more resilient and open I've become. :hi:

[lbrtbell]

75. There is ample evidence of reincarnation

You've simply chosen to ignore it.

[emcguffie]

83. Are you waiting for someone you don't know to just present the evidence to you?

There's actually a fair amount.

I just finished reading Consciousness Beyond Life: The Science of the Near-Death experience, by Pim van Lommel, M.D. He's a Dutch cardiologist, and he did a study on cardiac arrest patients who lost all brain activity for a period of time as well as having their hearts stop. In other words, they were clinically dead for a period of time. I think this was the first study where, rather than just collect anecdotal evidence, they asked all such patients (in the right place in the right time-frame) if they had any memory of anything taking place while they were "dead." And yes, many of them did.

He lists quite a few other sources and books as well. The Bibliography is 22 pages long.

He had a study published in "The Lancet."

Here are some websites:

www.pimvanlommel.nl
www.iands.org: IANDS United States, International Association of Near-Death Studies.
www.nderf.org: Near-Death Experience Research Foundation
www.markawah.nl: Dutch branch of IANDS.
www.transpantatiestichting.nl: Model protocol postmortem organ and tissue donation.

[newfie11]

24. well my husband (non believer in ghosts) did have one talk to him

At the time my husband was Director of a Cancer Center in Northern MI. He was sitting in his office and a older (very healthy looking ) man walked in. He was already dressed in a patient gown and wanted to let someone know he was there. He gave his name to my husband and was told to have a seat in the waiting room and my husband would tell the techs.

My husband notified the techs only to find out the man was not on the schedule and they could not find him in the waiting room. My husband went to the waiting room and asked the young man(fully clothed) sitting there if he had seen an older gentleman come in. No!

One of the techs called the home of the patient only to be told he had passed away a month or so earlier. Then they were told the man did have an appointment for that day and time but after he passed they had canceled it.

This went viral through the hospital,embarrassing my husband to know end. The hospital chaplain came to inquire. Ask my husband if the man looked sick and was told no he was very healthy looking. To which the chaplain replied I have heard this many times.

My husband also remembered the patient gown the man was wearing was an old one. They had changed to new gowns and all the old ones were gone.

Now say what you will , my husband still does not talk about this and it shook him up. He will not say whether he believes in ghosts now or not.

[truedelphi]

31. I have done hospice work for many years, and

Your husband is in good company. People in this field of work do have things like that happen.

Also, a very common dream among people who will be dead (several years or months later) is the one of feeling they have woken up, only to find almost every one of their significnt dearly departed relatives sitting on a couch or standing lined up against the wall of the room the person is sleeping in. The relatives will ask the person to "Come over here and join us."

And the person experiencing this knows better than to go over and be with them.

[demigoddess]

43. I've had a couple of dead people talk to me.

few years ago I had surgery, and first day I was up and doing the walking down the hall thing, I wavered a bit and heard, in one ear, my dad' s voice saying "looks like you got a hitch in your git-along" Something right out of his mouth.

[roguevalley]

51. I have seen shadow people, felt energy touch me when I have

asked questions of my long gone relatives, heard foot steps on my wood floors from boot heels and dog nails, my dad had a full body apparition of my uncle John appear in the back yard when he was raking leaves and say, "I love you, Alan. I'm alright." My dad was terrified. He is the most level headed man that ever lived but he saw what he saw. I had a near death experience. It was awesome and I have no fear of death because of it. I have heard my name spoken to me by a disembodied voice off and on since I was a little girl. I believe because I have personal evidence of it. I don't expect anyone else to get it until they do. That is fine with me but having blanket statements that nothing exists or being called names because of my real, factual experiences (others of which I haven't listed but have happened to me, my mother and sister all our lives) is bothersome.

[jberryhill]

62. What is it that makes you believe this is some kind of external phenomenon

I too, have had the same experience.

I am particularly susceptible to auditory replay of memories from my dead father when I am particularly stressed or overtired.

Is your mind seriously closed to the possibility that these things are included in the general category of "things our mind does?"

It seems quite reasonable to me that auditory memories of my father are closely tied in with a range of emotions to which things like stress, fatigue, drugs lower inhibitory mechanisms in my brain.

And, absolutely, when things like this happen, I actually hear them as clearly as I have ever heard anything else.

My father is dead. My hearing him is not the consequence of sound pressure waves propagating from some vibratory source impinging on my eardrums for analysis. I believe it is my auditory cognition apparatus receiving feedback from elsewhere in my brain and perceiving it as an auditory input.

Why is my belief, which is reproducible in laboratory experiments of electrical brain stimulation, and thus based on objectively available evidence, somehow repugnant to a belief which is based on make-believe?

[David Sky]

81. Excellent analysis of what is a common human "perceived" experience!

I think many of us can hear the voices of our now-departed close relatives, either as we sleep or awake suddenly, or have been experiencing stress, fatigue, or other unusual circumstance.

I subscribe to these more scientifically-based explanations of such phenomena and events, than a belief in the super-natural.

[emcguffie]

84. In the studies in this book I just read --

-- these guys are doctors. They were very careful to make sure these were memories people had when they had no brain activity whatsoever. They were clinically dead. Then they were revived.

Quite often, during the time when they were dead, according to their experiences, they were out of their bodies, often floating up near the ceiling, where perhaps they might see the dust on top of the light fixture. They often witnessed and recounted, correctly, conversations and/or events that took place while they were dead. Sometimes, if this took place in surgery, they heard the music that was playing, but without their ears. They saw what was happening to their bodies, but without their eyes. They recounted conversations and instructions given by doctors. But these conversations and events and insructions took place when they were clinically dead, not when they were simply under anesthesia.

In one instance (I think I wrote about this in another, similar thread a couple of days ago), a patient who happened to be wearing dentures saw, from outside his body, someone intubating his body. His dentures were causing a problem, and so the person took them out and put them into a drawer in a cart.

The patient was eventually revived and recovered. He needed his teeth. So he told someone what he had seen, and described the cart where he said his teeth were. And lo and behold, his teeth were found, in the drawer in the cart that matched his description -- from when he was clinically dead, after being unconscious.

This kind of thing happens a lot in NDEs.

[jberryhill]

86. What does this have to do with the subject of this thread?

Unless any of these NDE's have something to do with alerting distant loved ones - i.e. the phenomenon discussed in the OP of the dead/dying contacting other people - then I have to wonder if this thread is perhaps haunted.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

70. 6

[Tunkamerica]

10. I would posit that the idea that "dead is dead" is much more likely

statistically speaking than a Christian Heaven or Hell. Just being objective. Even if you just treat "dead is dead" the same as all other religions on earth it has an equal likelihood as any other belief; but if you test each belief according to its merits then christian heaven is just as likely as hindu reincarnation and infinitely less likely than "dead is dead" according to the data we have.

[timtom]

15. I'm going out on a limb here and positing that you don't really know.

Statistics have naught to do with it. We are talking about a statement of conditions that lie beyond our power to perceive or understand. (That, of course is MY opinion).

It's rather like suggesting what life is or is not like somewhere on a planet in the Andromeda galaxy. (Except that death and beyond is far more remote than the Andromeda galaxy).

[Tunkamerica]

16. Of course you're right. Just as right as any other person's guess on what happens.

The chances that the Christian heaven or hell is the truth is pretty unlikely given the lack of information.

[timtom]

17. It's interesting you keep bringing up

the Christian heaven or hell.

My conversation was meant to be extra-theological.

[jberryhill]

41. I, for one, actually don't care what happens after death

The enormous industry, whether religious, vaguely spiritual, or whatnot, that is based on people's fear of death or sorrow of grief is obscene.

I know for certain that I, you, and every other individual will eventually find out, so it is a monumental waste of time, energy, and effort that goes into obsessing over it.

People don't like "I don't know", so they think their pet explanation must be superior in the absence of any other. Then, they say YOU are not "open minded" when you do not accept their assertions made from their own, and everyone else's, total ignorance.

People I have loved have died, and apparently not ONE of them loved me enough to send me any premonitions or signs from the afterlife. I need to find more accommodating relatives.

[roguevalley]

48. prove it. your blanket statement is just your opinion. There are two

kinds of people in the world. Those who have had these experiences and the rest of you. I am tired of people stating no and expecting the rest of us to just agree. Prove it. and don't say you don't have to. If you are right, you can prove it.

[xocet]

58. What constitutes a proof in your opinion? n/t

[PatSeg]

71. I can't say with any certainty

that "dead is dead" anymore than I can say there is life after death. There is no way anyone can say for sure unless it has happened to them.

So to say there is no life after death is as presumptuous as saying there is life after death.

[SpiralHawk]

78. Your narrow opinion is very IMPORTANT. For you.

As for those of us who operate not on beliefs but on actial experience, your opinion just sounds like a narrow, fear-based materialist view of life. Meh.

[emcguffie]

82. You're not busting my bubble, just because you disagree with me.

too much evidence on the other side of the story. What's yours?

[DailyGrind51]

95. Only, if you lack the capacity to conceive of the infinite!

I would join with Pierre Tielhard De Chardin in his PHENOMENON OF MAN, who believed that we will eveolve into a state of pure thought, which will be eternal. But, hey, some of my best friends are metaphysically challenged! :)

[newfie11]

3. There is so much we do not know that I cannot say

Only when you die will you know for sure but you are not the only person this has happened to.

[kickysnana]

4. Hey I'm a believer.

A little over a year ago my Dad descended into dementia and in a little over a month. He was so confused and angry until the last day when I was sitting with him listening to his favorite country western music and he swore softly which he never did when womenfolk were around. I think he finally realized he was dying and he was in a coma a few hours later and died before morning.

When I arrived for the visitation my brother, who had not been there his last days, were chatting and I was tearing up because I really wanted him to pass away at home that was his wish but he had become so agitated, not sleeping, weak, agitated, confused, paranoid and hallucinating that it took several people to keep an eye on him, talk him down and give him medicine so he could sleep a at least a little. I felt someone hand pat my shoulder to console me and I turned to look at who was there and there was nobody there.

Of course the family would never let my oldest son and I play as team mates in games because they swore we could read each others minds.

[roguevalley]

52. and you are correct. what you experienced is normal and more

common than people realize. People don't tell about it because of the ridicule. but if everyone who had an experience told about it especially health and hospice people than it would ASTOUND people. I have not met many people who didn't have an experience to speak of. Condolences on your dad. He's dancing now and he knows you did your best.

[dipsydoodle]

6. In our memories

and sometimes in our dreams.

[azurnoir]

7. Last year when my Dad died I was awake watching TV

and all mof the sudden I could smell him a light mixture of the cigars he smoked and Old Spice and I heard him say "gota' go now, good bye" and I knew about 20 minutes later my brother called to say he'd passed

[Tunkamerica]

11. Scientific proof right here.

[azurnoir]

12. Huh? it happened that's all doesn't prove or disprove anything n/t

[Tunkamerica]

14. Sorry, I mistook a sentence typed on the internet as proof against an afterlife.

I should've taken it as proof OF an afterlife or ghosts or whatever.

[roguevalley]

53. I smell perfume sometimes. Carnations. My grandmother's favorite

My mother just before she died unexpectedly said that someone sat on her bed and the motion woke her up. She had the same experience the night her mom died. I think the person sitting this time was my dad who died ten months before.

[aquart]

9. Yes. It's quite odd.

[Kurmudgeon]

19. Despite the quips and remarks about after life, what they are discussing is a "crisis apparition".

What happens after that is a whole other discussion, or not if it fits your bias just to dismiss things completely.
However, there is a phenomenon where people separated by some distance are somehow aware, even if they don't completely understand what's happening, of the death of another. That isn't something that can just be blithely explained away.
Some of you won't believe it until it happens to you, so be it.

[truedelphi]

32. A friend of mine who was a monk

A decade or so before I met him, talked about the strict vow of silence.

Yet when an elederly monk in the order died in the wee hours of the night, the other monks would find themselves waking up and inexplicably drawn to the door of that man's room, only to realize that all the other monks were going there too.

Happened several times while he was living that life. In one case, the person who died was as healthy as a horse, so there wasn't any particular reason for the other monks to think this would happen.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Confirmation bias.

How many people have had a loved one pass away without any sort of 'contact'?
How many people 'woke up in the middle of the night and then received a call' or whatever, that would have woke up at that time anyway, even if the loved one didn't pass away?

[hlthe2b]

21. Amazing how some feel they know that that they can not.

and are so vested in that "certainty" that they have to become quite strident and snarky every single time.

As the OP stated, this discussion is extra-religious and not meant to suggest any theologic view. The militant anti-religious, thus, really should try to stand down for once. :eyes:

[Myrina]

22. +100

Thank you.

[newfie11]

26. yes. Read what I posted about my husband above.

I suspect people are afraid of what they don't understand and some become snarky to hide it.

[hlthe2b]

27. It is sad that your husband has been made to feel..

that he can not even discuss what he experienced. A phenomenon also common in the pursuit of science and medical advances. I once had the opportunity to hear the Australian physician (Barry James Marshall)who identified H. pylori as the infectious cause of gastric ulcers. The Harvard-driven medical community was so vested in their dogmatic views of gastric ulcers that it took a very long time before the kneejerk ridicule could die down enough for the truth to be appreciated. Marshall and his partner eventually won the Nobel prize, but not before going through many years of derision by the colleagues. :shrug:

[jberryhill]

30. Science would make more progress in an atmosphere of uncritical belief

It's a shame the way they do what they do.

[hlthe2b]

65. I am assuming you are being sarcastic...

Science must be critical in its conclusions and assignment of causation. But those theories that are accepted as scientific "fact" start as hypotheses. Dogmatic views deter the ability to propose and test hypotheses-- including those which might either disprove or add clarification to our current understanding.

Those who work in science or medicine or clinical diagnostics of any kind learn, if they are truly honest with themselves, how little our body of knowledge really is. One hell of a lot of unknowns remain--even about those areas for which science has brought great advancements. Could there not be a scientific explanation for the point of this post--the strong impressions of a loved one's pending or immediate death that some report, which can even extend to a sense of physical presence in those moments? Perhaps. Certainly there has been an attempt to rationally explain the phenomenon of the famous "white light" prior to an individual's death in those who recovered from brief periods of cardiac "death" based on stimulation to various areas of the brain or selective hypoxia.

It is really caustic to suggest that I or anyone else here is suggesting uncritical belief as the basis for asserting "fact." Not merely insulting, but caustically so. I would like to think I misinterpreted your intent. If I did, I hope you will return to make that clear. :shrug:

[jberryhill]

76. Sarcastic yes, caustic no

There is this syllogism that goes:

"Scientists said X was nonsense, but eventually it was proven to be correct. Therefore, if Y is nonsense, it too will eventually be proven correct."

This is related to:

"There is a lot we don't know, therefore (idle speculation) may have merit.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I have "heard" voices of departed loved ones, generally in states of fatigue, near sleep, or waking up from sleep. I don't think there is anything supernatural about it.

I have an old acquaintance who I haven't seen in a long time. Every couple of years, I get this urgent phone call from her about some dream she had in which something awful happened to me, and she wants to know if I'm okay, because she once had a premonition of an aunt dying. I have no doubt she does this to everyone she knows, and I further do not doubt that she'll be right some time in the future. The fact that over a sample of X trials, she is completely wrong doesn't phase her.

So, I'll admit, I am occasionally pestered by someone who believes in this phenomenon, and not only is it a personal pain in the ass, but I have to wonder why she is constantly wishing me harm on some subconscious level. There is a personal component to my reaction to this topic.

The idea that someone would have a spontaneous, and intense, episode of concern about a loved one doesn't seem at all unusual, and of course that episode has a definite likelihood of being correct once in a while.

I'm also motivated in part by the same thing I find mildly repulsive in the "loved one saved in horrible accident by divine intervention" thing. If God saved your kid from some disease or misfortune by divine intervention, then what about my kid who wasn't saved from a similar thing? God didn't love my child. Is that the heartwarming message? If your loved ones don't connect with you at their moment of death (when you are in no position to aid them anyway, I might add), then is it because everyone else, whose loved ones apparently don't won't or can't do this, insufficiently "close" to their loved ones?

Now one could, if one actually wanted to gain knowledge, set up a study to find out if there is something to these "crisis apparitions". But the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". For as earnestly as anyone wants to insist this happens, there doesn't seem to be anyone who has (a) determined what if any literature on the subject exists or (b) been motivated to make a serious effort to investigate it. So, I'll grant you that I'll take a hypothesis with the level of serious effort put into studying it in the first place.

[philly_bob]

28. I had an event that could be viewed as a post-death visitation.

It happened in an intense dream. My one-day-dead father appeared growing out of an egg and told me everything was fine, there was something after life, but it was incomprehensible by human standards and not to worry about it, you'll be ready when it comes. He seemed excited by whatever the after-life was.

Philosophically, I'm non-mystical and a rationalist. But sometimes that dream 30 years ago gives me comfort and, as a matter of principle, I won't forget it or deny it happened.

I simply classify it as an intense dream, not as a proof of anything about the state of the universe. I had the dream because I had just heard the news of my father's death and I knew he loved me and had devoted his life to getting youngsters ready for whatever comes next: in WWII as a drill instructor, after the war as a schoolteacher.

[jberryhill]

29. If you woke up thinking someone was dead, and you fell back asleep

You wouldn't remember the incident.

Nightmares are a common human phenomenon. How many people do you think might have woken up with the feeling that a loved one died, and it turned out that the loved one was just fine?

I've had that happen many times with my wife, my children, other family members, and so on. All of them turned out to be fine so far.

But if that happened to, say, X number of people a night, then you will have a definite probability of "hits" in the general population on a regular basis.

People in famine areas and other situations of mass death should organize to do this to those in a position to send help to the remaining victims of the event. That would be an incredibly useful application of this phenomenon.

[bemildred]

33. Well, I know I sure will. nt

[truedelphi]

35. Herman Hesse & Carl Jung both talked about their wonder over what would happen at the end of life.

Hesse expressed his belief as that of the soul turning into a bird and flying through the ether to other realms in other star systems.

Jung however was quite skeptical. He had spent time in the graveyards of Europe, digging around and looking for very old bodies to see what part of the body survived longer than others. He felt that if the soul was to survive, then some part of the body had to be immune from wear and tear of biological forces after death.

He also had a young man staying with him for a while. This young man hailed from So America. Jung told the man that should there be life after death, he would contact him and let him know.

Eventually the young man returned to his natvie country. One night, a small tornado slammed around his villa. The French windows were blown open, and this small whirlwind came rushing through the house. The whirlwind made its way throughout the home, eventually coming into his bedroom. Then the young man heard Jung's voice saying, "There is no life after death."

The next morning the young man received word that Jung had died.

[grasswire]

38. if there is no life after death, how did Jung have a voice and tell him?

I don't know either way.

I believe that I have felt the presence of my mother's spirit now and again.

The animating life force is so, so awesome whether it is in an animal or a human. When it leaves, where does it go? It isn't just a matter of a "machine" made with cells and processes that keep the body going. There is a force. And when it leaves, something very awesome has just happened.

[roguevalley]

55. good question. if there was nothing how could he come back and

tell anyone? Where does the animated soul come from and where does it go? If all things are energy and energy can't be destroyed but it changes, why not an afterlife? I don't believe in any of the afterlives religions pose. They all feel too small for me. The NDE I had made a difference for me and I know we survive. If no one else does that is okay. :) We will all find out in the end.

[bhikkhu]

39. No, they don't

They are just dead, except in the memories of those who have known them.

[roguevalley]

56. and you know this because ...

[bhikkhu]

63. Its not that I "know" it

- because its impossible to prove a negative.

But for the dead live on and communicate with the living somehow would require proving a whole host of things that there is no evidence of, and not even any plausible theory for.

You would have to, for example, show that living people have some means of communicating the spoken word other than physical speech, and some means of perceiving speech other than by the ear. Then, for dead people to use those means, you would have to show that thought can occur without a functional brain. And so forth...

[JanMichael]

45. interesting how this article freaked out the "dead is dead" folks

worse than any others.

I find the non-believers responses here more telling than the people who have experienced something of this nature.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

46. As an Atheist, I have to say that if you have ANY grasp of the enormity of

the universe and how infinitesimal our particular planet is in the overall scheme of things, you have to be really arrogant or really stupid to think we have even a remote understanding of everything that goes on out there. I don't know and you don't either but I'm pretty confident that what it is not is some white guy with a long beard watching us all the time.

[roguevalley]

57. and I agree with you. The universe is not so small that it can't

accommodate whatever comes next. I don't view God as a white beard man. I see 'God' as the animating energy of the universe, the accumulated aspect of all life lived, living and will live.

[Lucinda]

47. Yep they do.

Interesting to see CNN cover this. Thanks. :)

[xocet]

60. Refinement Necessary....

Your question is ambiguous due to the fact that it harbors several assumptions: to wit, the nature of life and death, the nature of communication, the potentially artificial restriction to those who were loved, etc.

How about being more specific in your question?

Namely:

• Define "beyond the grave".
  
• Define "bid farewell".
  
• Define "loved ones".
  

Would the question not be more precisely answered if it were more sharply defined or is a miasma of obscurantism the preferred result of this question?

(BTW: ImabewrbuIthththmiofobisthprreofyoqu.)

[Gman]

66. I think that just as the neutrinos possibly exceeding the speed of light

bring about new theories of the forces of the universe, I think it's completely possible that these kind of spiritual forces are such that we have no way to even conceive of measuring them, but I believe they do exist. Just because we cannot prove or disprove something does not in any way imply that it does not exist. Therefore, we believe.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

69. I recently had experiences so profound and overwhelming

If I had not experienced them with others I would have had myself committed. K&r

[jberryhill]

77. If they don't, it is because they didn't love you

So, that explains all the people saying no.

If someone you love dies, and you don't get a spiritual text message, then it means they secretly hated you all along.

[Scout]

89. or, they had already said everything that needed to be said before they died....

so no need to come back.

[PatSeg]

80. And Ralph Waldo Emerson said

"All that I have seen helps me to believe in that which I have not seen."

[sce56]

85. I don't belive in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause or God or is that Dog?

But I will say my girlfriend seems very receptive to dreams and feelings or premonitions. Two years ago at about 6:30 AM the smoke alarms all went off in he house I had to take the battery out of one of them since it would not reset. No smoke so I double checked the heater was not on since a lot of smoke alarms are dual function for CO2, if your smoke alarm goes off with no evident smoke it could be a leak in the furnace and CO2 will kill you if it depletes the O2! So being a Saturday we went back to bed. An hour later she got a call from home in South America her grandmother had died about the same time the smoke alarms went off! So while I don't believe in god there could be something to the spirit thing.

[saras]

87. I file it under "permanently, categorically unknowable" - saves me a load of trouble.

It's proved untestable - not failed, but untestable.

It has given people a lot of faith and comfort.

It is only distantly related to the part of religion that leads to intolerance and violence - it's not nearly so close as fundamentalist believers in 'scientific materialism' are.

[Celebration]

88. It's a very weird world

Far weirder than skeptics admit....... I haven't had this exact thing happen, but certainly some things that "seem" paranormal. But, it is really the science that we don't know. It is just elusive, and, very cool, I might add.

[FloriTexan]

90. I believe I was visited in a dream...

I used to work for an attorney/judge in his small private practice. He died suddenly while in the office of a heart attack. I found him in his office. I was 24 years old and he was a wonderful mentor to me and I felt like part of his family. Not only had I lost my boss but my job. I found myself responsible for shutting down his practice and helping an attorney friend of his to take over the clients.

A few months later I had a dream. It was so real. I walked up the steps of his home and rang the bell. He answered the door, dressed in a white undershirt and black slacks and socks. Attire I'd never seen him in before. He invited me in and he made me a drink. We sat down on the sofa and he told me:

I wanted to let you know what a good job you did closing up the office and helping my family through everything. I know how hard it was but you did everything just right. We talked some more about some good friends of his who died shortly after him in a plane crash and he said that they were able to spend time together now and they were all fine. We finished our drink and I got up and said that I have to go now.

I woke up in tears unable to shake the dream. At work the next day on my new job, I received a large package from the State Bar of Texas. I opened it and inside was several copies of the issue of their magazine that contained his obituary. That was the very last thing I needed to make sure was done for him when I shut down the practice.

His death was a horrific experience for me, from finding him to calling for help, to calling his family, to realizing I was out of a job, to not being able to interview for months because everyone wants to ask you that one question..."why did you leave your last job?" I think he knew there was no one else to tell me that I did do a good job and that there was nothing I could have done to save him. His doctor did tell me that, but getting through it was one of the roughest parts of my life.

[flamingdem]

91. I've heard many, many, many stories similar to yours

and I think there is a transition of some kind. It's a very beautiful thing that we know very little about. I know that there is something to it.

[Doris32r]

92. I think they do...

My sister and I were under the impression our grandmother had another 6 months to live. My sister picked me up from college for the holiday and we were driving home...during the drive I said to my sister Grandma's dead and my sister said I know. I asked did you just feel her come to you and say goodbye and she said yes. We got back to our parent's house and found out our grandmother had died right about the time we felt her say goodbye. You could argue she had cancer we knew she was going to pass away - but really we thought she had another 6 months. There was no reason for us to think she had died.

[JDPriestly]

93. To your question -- yes at least in some instances.

Don't want to discuss it beyond that. Most definitely yes, but it depends on the people involved.

All aspects of life, what we recognize as material and what we recognize as spiritual (if we do) is energy. And we really don't know much about the scope of the energy or energies that make up life and the universe.

We always think things are impossible until we find out how they work, why they work and that things are really very different from what we thought.

Imagine the shock when people first really understood that the world was not flat and why. There is still a lot we do not understand.