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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:50 PM
Original message
Obama’s misleading pitch for the jobs bill
“Everything in this proposal, everything in this legislation, everything in the American Jobs Act is the kind of proposal that in the past, at least, has been supported by Democrats and Republicans. Everything in it will be paid for.”

— President Obama, Sept. 14, 2011, Raleigh-Durham, N.C.

We had not intended to wade into this issue, thinking the answer was self-evident, but we have been bombarded with requests from readers who want to know whether the president’s claims are correct.

Has “everything in this legislation” been supported in the past by Democrats and Republicans?

Is everything in his $447 billion proposal paid for?

Seriously, if you really believe any of that, we have the Brooklyn Bridge to sell you. But, to be sure, the president is only following time-honored Washington traditions when he makes both of these claims.

(Glenn Kessler rated this statement 2 out of 4 Pinocchios at Washingtonpost.com. Full analysis at http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-misleading-pitch-for-the-jobs-bill/2011/09/14/gIQARQrqSK_blog.html)
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you don't have a job do you really care if everything is paid for
Or if everything has been supported in the past by Democrats and republicans?

He really doesn't need to say that kind of stuff to get people to support the bill, does he?
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. yeah he does....
he wants to bring out the hypocracy of the repubs who in the past have always supported rebuilding the insfrastructure of this country but now that it's "Obama's" bill the repubs will be against it...great politics.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. ECTFOIGT!
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. OK,
you're gonna have to help me out on that one.....Huh?
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. everybody chill
the fuck out, I got this.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thanks...
I can usually look it up, but this one wasn't actually defined. For some of us "oldsters" text language can get somewhat perplexing.... :crazy:
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. it is the most asinine...
acronym ever. I like Obama, but that damn poster is both childish and condescending.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Pass this bill right ayay! nt
Kessler can suck eggs.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. well what in the bill has not been supported in the past...
by a republican? Name it...
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. doesn't matter...
they will say they don't, and have never, supported it, and the media (who should have film of their support) will NEVER call them on it. Sycophants.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Since two of the biggest elements are more tax cuts and more "free trade"
I don't think the President is too far off. Why exactly we should be happy that he has embraced these failed right wing policies is beyond me, but he's right to say they are certainly supported by Republicans.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I read yesterday that included in this
is the tax on the so called cadillac health care plans, ie .10,000 a year which is weird because we have been quoted private plans at near that which we can't afford as basic plans. It seems a bad time to add this to an already contentious bill.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. Eleanor Roosevelt writes in her "The Autobiography of," One of the important duties of the President
Eleanor Roosevelt writes in her "The Autobiography of," One of the important duties of the President-and one that the Republican administration neglects- is to be the educator of the public on national problems. Most people do not have the time or inclination to inform themselves fully on the complex and seemingly remote problems that must be settled by the government. But if he knows the issues and explains them clearly, the President is in a position to make the people aware of what must be decided and to make them feel their responsibility as citizens in reaching a decision. Without such education of the people, democracy can become a dangerous kind of government because voters are called upon to make decisions or to support decisions without having sufficient knowledge of the factors involved." pg 358,para. 3
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Denzil_DC Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Glenn Kessler is a jumped-up RW asshole
as any perusal of recent "Pinnochios" handed out on Democratic issues will show.

Why drag his self-serving nonsense here? Unrec.
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. He has criticized Republicans too
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. If you count DLC as Democrats, then probably yes. I'm sure it contains
much that conservative dems and the GOP have supported all along. Traditional Democrats, not so much.
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Bill USA Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. I couldn't comment on Mr.Kessler's article, maybe he isn't up to review of his arguments for
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 09:54 PM by Bill USA
validity.

I do not feel I need to be constrained by the submissions of the Obama administration as mr. kessler seems to be in evaluating the statement by Obama that his jobs bill has features that have been supported by Republicans and Democrats "in the past". Did Mr. Kessler really feel "in the past" was limited to the past two years?

The administration officials seem to be as limited as Obama when it comes to seeing the current crowd of Republicans as the standard for that party. It seems to be abhorrent to Obama to come out and say what everybody else can see and many have commented on: that the current Republican party membership is extreme in it's policies and there are few to no moderates left in the party. So why would Mr. Kessler believe he must only consider the Repulbicans of the last few years as a measure of REpublican political inclinations?

I would have referred Mr. Kessler to Peter Beinart's excellent article in Time magazine http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1966451,00.html">Why Washington is tied up in Knots (which he apparently missed).

...In the Clinton years, Senate Republicans began a kind of permanent filibuster. "Whereas the filibusters of the past were mainly the weapon of last resort," scholars Catherine Fisk and Erwin Chemerinsky noted in 1997, "now filibusters are a part of daily life." For a while, the remaining GOP moderates cried foul and joined with Democrats to break filibusters on things like campaign finance and voter registration. But in doing so, the moderates helped doom themselves. After moderates broke a 1993 filibuster on campaign finance, GOP conservatives publicly accused them of "stabbing us in the back." Their pictures were taken off the wall at the offices of the Republican Senate campaign committee. "What do these so-called moderates have in common?" conservative bigwig Grover Norquist would later declare. "They're 70 years old. They're not running again. They're gonna be dead soon. So while they're annoying, within the Republican Party our problems are dying."
(See the top 10 unfortunate political one-liners.)

In Clinton's first two years in office, the Gingrich Republicans learned that the vicious circle works. While filibusters were occasionally broken, they also brought much of Clinton's agenda to a halt, and they made Washington look pathetic. In one case, GOP Senators successfully filibustered changes to a 122-year-old mining act, thus forcing the government to sell roughly $10 billion worth of gold rights to a Canadian company for less than $10,000. In another, Republicans filibustered legislation that would have applied employment laws to members of Congress — a reform they had loudly demanded.

With these acts of legislative sabotage, Republicans tapped into a deep truth about the American people: they hate political squabbling, and they take out their anger on whoever is in charge. So when the Gingrich Republicans carried out a virtual sit-down strike during Clinton's first two years, the public mood turned nasty. By 1994, trust in government was at an all-time low, which suited the Republicans fine, since their major line of attack against Clinton's health care plan was that it would empower government. Clintoncare collapsed, Democrats lost Congress, and Republicans learned the secrets of vicious-circle politics: When the parties are polarized, it's easy to keep anything from getting done. When nothing gets done, people turn against government. When you're the party out of power and the party that reviles government, you win.
(See 10 GOP congressional contenders.)

The Endless Filibuster

All this, it turns out, was a mere warm-up for the Obama years. On the surface, it appeared that Obama took office in a stronger position than Clinton had, since Democrats boasted more seats in the Senate. But in their jubilation, Democrats forgot something crucial: vicious-circle politics thrives on polarization. As the GOP caucus in the Senate shrank, it also hardened. Early on, the White House managed to persuade three Republicans to break a filibuster of its stimulus plan. But one of those Republicans, Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter — under assault for his vote and facing a right-wing primary challenge — switched parties. That meant that of the six Senate Republicans with the most moderate voting records in 2007, only two were still in the Senate, and in the party, by '09. The Wednesday lunch club had ceased to exist. And the fewer Republican moderates there were, the more dangerous it was for any of them to cut deals across the aisle.
(more)


Others have commented on the extremism of the Republican party of the last several years (one in fact is Ezra Klein of the Washington Post). After Obama's election, Republicans declared a "scorched Earth" campaign would be waged against Obama - such was their tolerance for the will of the people. After all, Obama was actually an ELECTED president, unlike George Bush.

Kessler takes issue with the administration's citing of Republican support for excising tax 'expenditures'....

"the administration official sent us quotes from a Bipartisan Policy Center deficit-reduction report that was endorsed by former Republican lawmakers calling for the elimination of itemized deductions (and the standard deduction) and replacing it with credits for mortgage interest expenses and charitable contributions. This is a very different concept than the president’s plan — and we are not sure if “former” officials really count as evidence of bipartisan support.

... the Republicans have said they support the idea of reducing tax expenditures. The administration is pointing out that the GOPers have said they support reducing tax 'expenditures' - Mr. Kessler's statement that "This is a very different concept than the president’s plan" ... only asserts what hypocritical GOPers contend - it is different as far as the GOPers are concerned because they are happy to discuss CONCEPTS. It's just when it comes to actually acting upon them (as in reducing tax expenditures) that they consistently demonstrate their hypocrisy - in particular when protecting those better off who could afford a bit less Government largesse (even when helping the nation is called for and when those who didn't need them, enjoyed tax cuts thanks to the Bush administration. These tax cuts contributed significantly to the current deficit we are burdened with as well as the Trickle Down Disaster which the Democrats have been trying rebuild the economy from.).

Does REpublican hypocrisy make Obama's assertions a lie ? - Republicans have claimed to be supportive of reducing tax 'expenditures'. All Obama is saying he's taking them at their word - and asking them to apply the concept of reducing tax expenditures to those who are in a better position to can get along without the Government subsidies.

Mr. Kessler says:

" Is everything in his $447 billion proposal paid for?
Seriously, if you really believe any of that, we have the Brooklyn Bridge to sell you."

Really, is this supposed to be a reasoned analysis of Obama's assertion that he has built in legislative means to pay for the jobs bill??? If you believe that then I have a bit by Abbott and Costello articulating "who's on First" to offer as professional journalism.



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Recoverin_Republican Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
18.  you didn't leave enough of poor ol' Kessler to sweep up into a basket.


... nicely done!

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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is a good source too, with a good account of recent obstruction:
http://factcheck.org/2011/09/obamas-jobs-act-bipartisan-not-entirely/

Its good to remember, when people look at this bill and wonder why it wasn't done 2 years ago, that much of it was tried two years ago, and failed to get through congress. Every good thing they could cut or block, the repugs cut or blocked.

Then two years later they conned their way into an even stronger position in congress...
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Bill USA Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. unfortunately factcheck.org doesn't allow comments either. He also seems to think history only
includes the last few years. The Republican party has been around longer than that. During the Clinton administration there were still moderate Republicans around, but now they have been run-off. but is it valid to pretend history only includes the last few years and we should forget about the makeup of parties several years earlier and for a much longer time than the current crop of fanatical idiots have been around?.... that is patently wrong. It's called selecting the data so you can draw from them, the conclusions you were seeking.

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. whether it is bipartisan or paid for is the least and second least important things about it
I would be just as happy if not one GOP idea was in it, so at least their foaming at the mouth would be honest for a change.
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