Our Founding Fathers Would Be Proud of the Egyptian People & Disgusted at...

[Joanne98]

America 's founding fathers stood up for their freedom, winning it from the British. The Egyptian people have stood up for their freedom, too, winning it from the Mubarak dictatorship, finding their courage even when Mubarak's thugs flew fighter jets low over their heads, beat and murdered protesters, and otherwise threatened violence.

The American people, on the other hand, have been cowed into passivity by an irrational fear of terrorism, laziness and mindlessness .

Some would point out, however, that the American government is nothing like the Egyptian government. So let's make some comparisons:

•There is a stunning amount of inequality in Egypt. But America is even worse


•Mubarak stole billions from his people, while the American oligarchs have stolen trillions. See this, this, this and this


•Egypt has been living under a state of emergency for 30 years, yes. But Americans have been living under a continuous state of emergency for 10 years straight.


http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Founding-Fathers-Would-by-Richard-Clark-110211-649.html

[MineralMan]

1. No, thanks.

Yes, the Founders would have celebrated for Egypt.

The rest of this screed is pure anti-US.

Starting here: "•There is a stunning amount of inequality in Egypt. But America is even worse "

We're worse than Egypt was in terms of equality? Really? Nope.

Unrecced.

[MineralMan]

4. For example, GLBT rights in Egypt simply do not exist.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Egypt

Other Human Rights suffer in Egypt, as well.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt

It is incorrect to claim that inequalities are worse in Egypt than in the United States.

[MineralMan]

5. Equality for Women in Egypt?

"The literacy rate in Egypt is 71 percent as of 2005 which includes 59 percent of females and 83 percent of males."

Sounds pretty dismal to me, I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Egypt

Then, there's this little tidbit:

"The Ministry of Health issued a decree in 1996 declaring female circumcision unlawful and punishable under the Penal Code,<30> and according to UNICEF the prevalence of women who have had this procedure has slowly declined from a baseline of 97% of women aged 15–49 since 1995.<31> According to a report in the British Medical Journal BMJ, "he issue came to prominence...when the CNN television news channel broadcast a programme featuring a young girl being circumcised by a barber in Cairo. ...Shocked at the images shown worldwide, the Egyptian president was forced to agree to push legislation through the People's Assembly to ban the operation.".<32> Despite the ban, the procedure continues to be practiced in Egypt<33> and remains controversial."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt#Status_of_women

[MineralMan]

6. Freedom of Religion in Egypt? Not really.

"Human Rights Watch also indicates issues of concern. For example they discuss how the law does not recognize conversion from Islam to other religions.<10> According to a poll by the PewResearchCenter in 2010, 84 percent of all Egyptian Muslims (75 percent of the entire population) is in favor of imposing the death sentence for leaving Islam<11>. Human Rights Watch also mentions strict laws against insulting Islam, Christianity or Judaism and detention for unorthodox sects of Islam, such as Ahmadiyya.<12> In 1960, Bahá'í institutions and community activities were banned by Presidential decree of President Gamal Abdel Nasser. All Bahá'í community properties, including Bahá'í centers, libraries, and cemeteries, were subsequently confiscated. Bahá'ís are also not allowed to hold identity cards, and are thus, among other things, not able to own property, attend university, have a business, obtain birth, marriage and death certificates. This ban had not been rescinded as of 2003. In 2001 18 Egyptian Bahá'ís were arrested on "suspicion of insulting religion" and detained several months without being formally charged.<8>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt#Freedom_of_religion

[EFerrari]

28. The author is referring to this:

http://current.com/news/92951807_inequality-in-america-worse-than-tunisia-egypt-yemen.htm

[RKP5637]

2. Glad you posted this, I was thinking similar today as I saw 'we accept food stamps' signs. We

have this ingrained notion, somehow, that all is well. However, the pilings are decaying.

[MineralMan]

11. Food stamps are a safety net that simply doesn't exist in

Egypt. It's one of the things we do here to help those who need that assistance. Nothing like that in Egypt. Nothing at all. Where is the equivalence?

[RKP5637]

13. No, I wasn't thinking of a direct correlation, it just got me thinking about where

we might be headed, that's all. Earlier today I was also thinking about some of the proposals by CPAC for budget cutting. It seems if it helps people or people are basically defenseless those are the ones they go after for budget cutting. That's more what I was getting to ... You made some excellent points IMO in your responses!

[MineralMan]

16. CPAC is a pack of morons.

[RKP5637]

17. That is way tooooooooooooo kind! n/t

[jannyk]

3. Kick & Rec!

[MineralMan]

12. Really? Did you read the article? Do you actually believe everything

that is written there? I direct you to my subthread above, just in regard to the very first bullet point in that screed. Show me where I'm wrong.

[Number23]

7. Ridiculous.

[MineralMan]

9. Good word for it. It seems like anything written is taken

as truth these days. I've debunked one of the bullet points in this screed above - the one about inequalities being worse in the US than in Egypt. Since that's the first bullet point in this amazingly stupid article, I stopped there. I could debunk them all, but I'll stop with the first one.

We cannot simply accept any damned thing some witless moron writes as truth. Everything has to be examined. I'm really, really tired of sloppy crap being posted here and simply accepted by many. It's just plain wrong to do that. It's as wrong as what the right is doing in posting incorrect information over and over again.

[girl gone mad]

8. k & r

Good article.

[MineralMan]

10. No, it's not a good article. Starting with the very first bullet

point, it's incorrect. You can see why in the subthread above. It's a very poor article. It's actually some sort of propaganda piece, full of misinformation and outright lies.

[Leftist Agitator]

14. The article is referring to economic inequality.

Let's pretend that you weren't being deliberately obtuse in your numerous posts above, and didn't realize this.

Yes indeed, economic inequality is worse in the US than in Egypt. Their poor might be much more poor (in general) than our poor, but our rich are much, MUCH richer than the rich in Egypt.

The United States of America has more economic inequality than does Egypt, and you can scream "Bullshit!" at the top of your lungs until your face turns purple, the fact remains that that is the case.

[MineralMan]

15. Nonsense. It's not just about that at all.

In fact, the first paragraph of this sorry piece of writing mentions only freedom, and never even raises economic issues. And you can't compare economic equality either, only by the discrepancy between rich and poor. I don't think you have any idea how poor the poor in Egypt really are, and what the comparison between the rich and the poor is there. In fact, I'm certain you don't. To claim that the poor in the US are in worse shape than the poor in Egypt are is to display ignorance of both countries.

[Leftist Agitator]

18. To quote myself, "Their poor might be much more poor (in general) than our poor..."

I said, "Their poor might be much more poor (in general) than our poor..."

And then you said, "To claim that the poor in the US are in worse shape than the poor in Egypt are is to display ignorance of both countries."

Tell me again, how did I say that the poor in the US are in worse shape?

Oh, wait, I didn't. In fact I said EXACTLY THE FUCKING OPPOSITE.

Now that I've made you look foolish, do you want to admit that the US does indeed have greater income inequality than does Egypt, or do you want to keep putting words in people's mouths in a pathetic attempt to argue an incorrect position?

[eomer]

19. Yes it is. The bullet on inequality is absolutely talking about economic inequality.

Here is the bullet about inequality:

• There is a stunning amount of inequality in Egypt. But America is http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/01/inequality-is-worse-in-america-than-in.html">even worse

Did you not notice the link at the end? Follow it and you will see that the bullet is talking about economic inequality, as measured by the https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html">Gini index for the distribution of family income.

[XanaDUer]

20. And

We're Better off Than Egypt - Right? Let's Take a Look.



Government
by RJ Eskow | January 31, 2011 - 9:24am

A tourist who was interviewed last night from Cairo spoke for millions of his fellow Americans when he said he couldn't imagine living a country like Egypt. It is hard, isn't it?

Imagine: A government run by and for the rich and powerful. Leaders who lecture others about "sacrifice" and deficits while cutting taxes for corporations and the wealthy. A system so corrupt that rich executives can break the law without fear of being punished. Increasing poverty and hardship even as the stock market rises. And now, a nation caught between a broken political system and a populist movement that could be hijacked by religious extremists at any moment.

Here's the reality: Income inequality is actually greater in the United States than it is in Egypt. Politicians here have close financial ties to big corporations, both personally and through their campaigns. Corporate lawbreakers often do go unpunished. Poverty and unemployment statistics for US minorities are surprisingly similar to Egypt's.

MORE-

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/rj-eskow/34017/were-better-off-than-egypt-right-lets-take-a-look

[louslobbs]

21. The Founding Fathers would be turning over in their graves if they

Could see what has become of our alleged democracy. As for the people in Egypt, find your own type of democratic rule, ours if failing miserably. By the way, would you like a couple of Koch brothers to help your new government in its infancy? Also, we have a half term governor we can send you who is simply unbelievable. Also,Let us know if you could use a Mr. Glenn Beck to help your citizens learn what someone who is out of their mind looks like. Good luck Egypt, and congratulations.

[treestar]

24. Everybody likes to speak for the FF

Yeah, they agreed with me too. They thought exactly as I do.

[louslobbs]

25. I did not speak for the FF

I said in plain english, that I thought they would be turning over in their graves. And I spoke for them how? If you feel a need to comment on my posts, please read them first and don't create your own story about the meaning of that which I write. I'm sure the Founding Fathers would agree with me LOL.
Lou

[treestar]

26. How do you know what they would turn in their graves over?

Without presuming to speak for them?

Anyone can comment on the content of anyone's posts.

[louslobbs]

29. They actually wouldn't be, first of all

It's not possible and second it's just a fun little saying that you are spending way too much of your valuable time discussing. The founding fathers would be lying dead in their graves? How's that? Hope that works for you sorry if I'm not saying things you want to hear and in the words you want me to use treetard and if this is bothering you. Just write what you think I should say and I'll agree to that......lol.....NOT

[XanaDUer]

22. Kick

nt

[treestar]

23. The greater inequality is because we have more rich people

"American oligarchs" is very vague compared to identifying a certain person.

Even our post 911 state of emergency does not begin to be anything as bad as a dictatorship.

[Catherina]

27. Too late to recommend these excellent points n/t