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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:25 PM
Original message
Obama wins the right to detain people with no habeas review
Friday, May 21, 2010 13:22 ET

By Glenn Greenwald


(updated below)

Few issues highlight Barack Obama's extreme hypocrisy the way that Bagram does. As everyone knows, one of George Bush’s most extreme policies was abducting people from all over the world -- far away from any battlefield -- and then detaining them at Guantanamo with no legal rights of any kind, not even the most minimal right to a habeas review in a federal court. Back in the day, this was called "Bush's legal black hole." In 2006, Congress codified that policy by enacting the Military Commissions Act, but in 2008, the Supreme Court, in Boumediene v. Bush, ruled that provision unconstitutional, holding that the Constitution grants habeas corpus rights even to foreign nationals held at Guantanamo. Since then, detainees have won 35 out of 48 habeas hearings brought pursuant to Boumediene, on the ground that there was insufficient evidence to justify their detention.


Immediately following Boumediene, the Bush administration argued that the decision was inapplicable to detainees at Bagram -- including even those detained outside of Afghanistan but then flown to Afghanistan to be imprisoned. Amazingly, the Bush DOJ -- in a lawsuit brought by Bagram detainees seeking habeas review of their detention -- contended that if they abduct someone and ship them to Guantanamo, then that person (under Boumediene) has the right to a habeas hearing, but if they instead ship them to Bagram, then the detainee has no rights of any kind. In other words, the detainee's Constitutional rights depends on where the Government decides to drop them off to be encaged. One of the first acts undertaken by the Obama DOJ that actually shocked civil libertarians was when, last February, as The New York Times put it, Obama lawyers "told a federal judge that military detainees in Afghanistan have no legal right to challenge their imprisonment there, embracing a key argument of former President Bush’s legal team."



But last April, John Bates, the Bush-43-appointed, right-wing judge overseeing the case, rejected the Bush/Obama position and held that Boumediene applies to detainees picked up outside of Afghanistan and then shipped to Bagram. I reviewed that ruling here, in which Judge Bates explained that the Bagram detainees are "virtually identical to the detainees in Boumediene," and that the Constitutional issue was exactly the same: namely, "the concern that the President could move detainees physically beyond the reach of the Constitution and detain them indefinitely."

But the Obama administration was undeterred by this loss. They quickly appealed Judge Bates' ruling. As the NYT put it about that appeal: "The decision signaled that the administration was not backing down in its effort to maintain the power to imprison terrorism suspects for extended periods without judicial oversight." Today, a three-judge panel of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals adopted the Bush/Obama position, holding that even detainees abducted outside of Afghanistan and then shipped to Bagram have no right to contest the legitimacy of their detention in a U.S. federal court, because Boumediene does not apply to prisons located within war zones (such as Afghanistan).

remainder in full: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama has disappointed me on civil rights, but Glenn Greenwald bothers me. nt
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. seems corporations get more rights protected than human citizens get
Not the change I worked for.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. For the sake of sweet whispers promising increased security ...
our nation's soul is going straight to hell! :grr: :nuke: :grr:

"Today, a three-judge panel of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals adopted the Bush/Obama position, holding that even detainees abducted outside of Afghanistan and then shipped to Bagram have no right to contest the legitimacy of their detention in a U.S. federal court, because Boumediene does not apply to prisons located within war zones (such as Afghanistan)."
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well, isn't this a Bush Lite moment n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. This is Bush hardcore
There is nothing Lite about it!
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. +1
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Make no mistake - this moves our country one more giant step toward dictatorship
I can think of no more fundamental issue in regard to our freedom as spelled out in The Constitution than this and the alleged right of the President to kill American citizens with no judicial review. As sure as the Sun rises in the East, if this power is ultimately granted to the Executive, it will at some point be turned against Americans with regular American sounding names like Pete Smith or Jack Anderson in Ohio, Florida or pick a state. Are we a country that lives by the rule of law or the rule of men?

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Not just spelled out in the Constitution...
...but also spelled out in the Magna Carta. (1215 AD)
Bush/Obama...working together to turn back over 800 years of enlightenment.
Welcome back to the Dark Ages.
I guess you can call that "CHANGE".
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R for Glenn Greenwald for holding Obama to the exact same standard he held Bush to
You just don't expect that to be necessary for a DEMOCRATIC president. Obama is a fucking fraud.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Amen. A Fraud AND a Cheat!
Certainly an Equal Opportunity despot.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Only as it pertains to battlefield detentions
http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2010/05/bagram-detainees-have-no-habeas-rights.html

Seems to me we need a law that we cannot remove people who have been picked up outside the battlefield to a battlefield prison.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. I think Greenwald is an idiot. Constitutional habeas rights most clearly exist
for US citizens and persons on US territory; the exception in time-of-war limiting the functioning of civil authority here has long been recognized at law

Whether habeas rights might extend to a Yemeni citizen captured in Afghanistan, a Tunisian citizen captured in Pakistan, or a Yemeni citizen captured in Thailand, all of whom were then held at Bagram in Afghanistan, is a reasonable issue properly raised by the detainees' counsel

I admire any judge who takes the habeas claim seriously, but I do not think it is surprising that the Executive argues against it, and I do not think it is strange to find judges siding with the Executive in this case -- it is not entirely clear to me what decision should be reached, and I think reasonable people might differ

Greenwald's hysterical tone doesn't really illuminate anything

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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. He's not an idiot about the law nor on his ability to point out what Obama
clearly rejected during the campaign.

"But Obama hailed it as "a rejection of the Bush Administration's attempt to create a legal black hole at Guantanamo," and he praised the Court for "rejecting a false choice between fighting terrorism and respecting habeas corpus."


Greenwald doesn't illuminate anything? Experts have explained in detail for years during and since Bush that actions such as
this make us less safe. So perhaps one could say Greenwald is not illuminating anything new, but unfortunately there is a need to remind
this administration of the consequences for their choices.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. While there are certainly historical precedents in regard to battlefield detantions and the like,
I think the facts of this matter are very different than what has come before in our country's history.

For example, I can think of no other instance where the Executive has claimed the right to kidnap foreign nationals on foreign soil far away from any battlefield and then transport them to a US run detention facility for an indefinite period of time. In addition, Greenwald discusses the issue of this President's DOJ arguing that the Executive has the right to kill an American citizen also far away from any battlefield with no judicial review.

I would argue that we have entered new territory in regard to the law when examining the concepts of "global battlefield" and "perpetual war".

I would also argue that the construct of this unprecedented power grab by GW Bush and now Pres. Obama to be exactly what dictators the world over have done when abolishing the rule of law. Merely claim that the country is at war and will be forever and that the rule of law has been suspended until the war is over. In this case the "perpetual war" is against a group of tribesman with no army, navy, air force or marines and a shadowy group that can always be redefined to fit any season.

I think if the notion of perpetual, global war against an ill-defined enemy grants the President of the United States to suspend habeus and actually assassinate American citizens with no judicial review we are no longer a free nation by any definition of the word.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Damn, that is so incredibly well-said. Should be an OP
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. knr the worst was Mr. Arar
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kick n/t
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-10 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. Tell him to start with Dick Cheney and all BP executives
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. Great, Now It's President Legal Black Hole --
-- Lead Slop-Slinger and Driver of the Torture Getaway Winnebago.

Just another one of the Good Ole Boys pickin and grinnin at Dotty-Dick's (once-great) Country (now a) Bunker.

--
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
20. UPDATE II:
Edited on Sat May-22-10 10:05 AM by Jefferson23
Guest-hosting for Rachel Maddow last night, Chris Hayes talked with Shayana Kadidal of the Center for Constitutional Rights about the Bagram ruling and Obama's hypocrisy on these issues, and it was quite good, including a video clip of the 2006 Obama speech I excerpted above:

video at link to Maddow.http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/05/21/bagram/index.html




And in The New York Times, Charlie Savage has a typically thorough examination of the impact of the ruling. As he writes: "The decision was a broad victory for the Obama administration in its efforts to hold terrorism suspects overseas for indefinite periods without judicial oversight." But GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham (author of the habeas-denying provision in the Military Commissions Act) "called the ruling a 'big win' and praised the administration for appealing the lower court’s ruling," and that's what really matters.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. By now progressives know that Obama gives pretty speeches
which are often followed by reactionary policies that contradict his words.
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